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faderullan
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- #181
WHy do people think that all guys in rvr guilds are kids?
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Kelmorian
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- #182
Dunno, but with an inteligent post as your guildmate just did some ppl may assume things, dont you think?
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Farnis
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- #183
Duck - there it goes - over your head
I wasnt saying rvr guilds were full of kids mate.
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Farnis
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- #184
Just out of curiosity - do people arrange fg fights over IRC or is that just used to mock the defeated?
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Zii
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- #185
just noticed it was the wrong thread
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old.Noita
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- #186
Well... actually I didnt say "adding" was a bad thing did I? In fact I said twice that I really dont care how many Mids kill an enemy... Hell bring a zerg to kill a grey.... beyond me to give a damn really. What I said was basically this...
Dont complain about "adds" if you dont think twice about "adding" yourselves.
Furthermore, if as you say some in BO engage (add) and some dont then you dont follow Blejs "try not to add" attitude. So how can you expect others to follow your own somewhat self imposed rule-set if you dont follow them yourselves and if you do follow them you follow them in such an ad-hoc manner as to make them more or less meaningless to anyone except yourselves so you cant really blame your realm mates for not sticking to something you yourselves lack any consistency in.
The downside to being an "elite" guild is that people notice what "elite" guilds do (and dont do) and they can either act in a way that sets themselves up as an example to their realm mates or set themselves up as arrogant jerks who (in general) dont really seem to give a fuck. The choice at the end of the day is up to the individual guilds to make. This is NOT to say that BO are either of the above (examples or arrogant) but merely an observance of "elite" guilds and whether one likes it or not this is a fact of life in DAoC. Nolby Pride, EoO, BO, PE, SotL etc, etc... all have set themselves up in one way or another, intentionally or unintentionally, in the history of Prydwen as being somewhat "elite"... and they are the ones who people notice and they are the ones who people write threads about.
I also didnt say BO were a bad guild, or did I say that everyone in the guild was as bad as everyone else. Dont forget, I spent a year in EoO and as far as Im concerned EoO had probably the worst reputation (at one time) of any Midgard Guild ever (within Midgard at least) and I am acutely aware that many many members of EoO were really nice people who would literally jump off horses to help greys out if they were in trouble and many ex-EoO members are (or were at least) members of BO. So I have first hand experience of having an undeserved "bad reputation".
I used several recent personal experiences to illustrate my point, now... I am just one person, in one guild and I dont even go to Emain, my RvR takes place in OG/HW almost exclusively, how many more people out there with similar experiences and observations is anyones guess, but judging from the growing amount of threads and replies to existing ones I would suggest the number is large and growing. Of course, many have personal problems with some or many members in BO and just wait for the chance to flame. I however, do not. I have no axe to grind, I have no problems with Blej or any other member of BO, in fact I said in my original post on this thread that I have a great deal of respect for Blej as a player and as a GM. However, all of my observations were honest and accurate and can be verified.
In short, they were factual and true and no amount of denial or mitigation will make them any less true no matter how pleasant or unpleasant that truth may be.
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lissandra
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- #187
Imo a big hush on you that didnt see the mids and albs fighting when we got there.
This has become way bigger then it was just because we didnt wanna zerg ppl while other mids wanted to zerg them. Their call to do so, i wont be part of zerging tho since i dont think thats any fun and makes albs zerg and then mid zerg and then all zerg at same time.
Ill give some examples how i think and what i think is fun in rvr.
If i can stay away from a zergfight where mids zerg and albs dont then i do so, if we had been engaged with the albs we would have fought them even if mids added. If we are in a fight we never stop fighting just so other ppl die. If we aint in fight and see mids fighting we try to stay away to avoid zerging from albs, if albs or hibs are zerging and fighting mids we usually join in to beat the zerg. I dont like zerging and if there is just a small bit i can to do avoid it ill try to do that.
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dorfs
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- #188
BO sucks major donkey balls end of story
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Arflane
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- #189
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AzuratMinimus
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- #190
Well my post was more like an explaination why sometimes we add and sometimes not... depends on the people in that group. Another reason is that it´s not written down in guild rules that thou shall never add.
And perhaps i should have written that last 2 lines in a seperate post or something since they weren´t aimed at you noita. More at the people that just seems to enjoy flamming instead of just discussing and making a point. ( I know i rarely make sense enough to make a point
)
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Ottar
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- #191
> I do feel that there is some hypocrisy here
Hypocricy unavoidably becomes common practice every time someone invents a law that most people cant or are not going to follow. When you run into a fight, what do you do? Fights with equal numbers are more fun, certainly. But what if your realmmates are losing the fight? Still ignore them? That certainly -feels- wrong, but quite aside from feelings, look at it pragmatically.
1. People who lose fights because you didnt help are going to hate you alot. You are making enemies in your own realm. Eventually you might gain more grief than you gain fun from not adding.
2. No Adding is in no way supported by game mechanics. Therefore its is a self-imposed rule with no method of enforcing beyond yourself and maybe your guildies. Your realm-mates may and probably will not comply to it, neither will people on other side. You are placing yourself at disadvantage.
"Selective Adding", i.e. join fights only when your realm is clearly losing is a bit better but has its problems as well. When you run in and see fighting, can you always tell which side is winning? I certainly cant. Sometimes you can, I'd say most of the times you cant. Staying out of the fight for several seconds, trying to figure out whats going on will again place yourself at disadvantage. What if other side has adds inc as well? Major differences there between No Leaching in PvE as opposed to RvR - higher speed of events and uncertainties in RvR.
From what I hear, compared to Excalibur Prydwen has so far been pretty successful at avoiding major zerging being the dominant form of warfare and that is good. This No Adding thing is a fairly recent phenomenon on Prydwen. Honest question: guys, has your fun been improved by it? I figure, surely we can keep up not becoming another Excalibur without trying to apply rules that are difficult if not often impossible to follow and which people out there wont follow anyway.
Ottar
Hypocricy unavoidably becomes common practice every time someone invents a law that most people cant or are not going to follow. When you run into a fight, what do you do? Fights with equal numbers are more fun, certainly. But what if your realmmates are losing the fight? Still ignore them? That certainly -feels- wrong, but quite aside from feelings, look at it pragmatically.
1. People who lose fights because you didnt help are going to hate you alot. You are making enemies in your own realm. Eventually you might gain more grief than you gain fun from not adding.
2. No Adding is in no way supported by game mechanics. Therefore its is a self-imposed rule with no method of enforcing beyond yourself and maybe your guildies. Your realm-mates may and probably will not comply to it, neither will people on other side. You are placing yourself at disadvantage.
"Selective Adding", i.e. join fights only when your realm is clearly losing is a bit better but has its problems as well. When you run in and see fighting, can you always tell which side is winning? I certainly cant. Sometimes you can, I'd say most of the times you cant. Staying out of the fight for several seconds, trying to figure out whats going on will again place yourself at disadvantage. What if other side has adds inc as well? Major differences there between No Leaching in PvE as opposed to RvR - higher speed of events and uncertainties in RvR.
From what I hear, compared to Excalibur Prydwen has so far been pretty successful at avoiding major zerging being the dominant form of warfare and that is good. This No Adding thing is a fairly recent phenomenon on Prydwen. Honest question: guys, has your fun been improved by it? I figure, surely we can keep up not becoming another Excalibur without trying to apply rules that are difficult if not often impossible to follow and which people out there wont follow anyway.
Ottar
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Cami
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- #192
How could BO fight them when you followed them around ? 
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hannah-
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- #193
wait wait dear grivne :>
albs were bashing mids when we came to the spot.. I cast mezz on thier tanks while they are busy hitting mids... might have been first mezz but u fought them first :>
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Ahqmae
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- #194
Zerging - and adding - is major boring shit. You gotta be fucking stupid to enjoy mowing down enemies half your numbers lol... I'd leave the adders to die anytime. No, I don't roleplay in DAoC, because it would mean that the game would be shit boring. I like hitting a guy a few times before he dies better than maybe hitting one of the enemies once before my computer crashes due to lag.
I pride myself of belonging to a non-zerging hibbie guild. Then again, I've heard and seen that Mid/pry is alot alike Alb/xcal, mindless zergs, I know exactly why BO left that fight.
You are complaining about the alb zerg in hadrians? Well, guess just what you were building against PE there. 24 ppl against 8, come on - it starts with a nice 'z'..... talk about double standards lol...
As for you not thinking of yourself as an rvr newbie? I don't agree with you....
I pride myself of belonging to a non-zerging hibbie guild. Then again, I've heard and seen that Mid/pry is alot alike Alb/xcal, mindless zergs, I know exactly why BO left that fight.
You are complaining about the alb zerg in hadrians? Well, guess just what you were building against PE there. 24 ppl against 8, come on - it starts with a nice 'z'..... talk about double standards lol...
As for you not thinking of yourself as an rvr newbie? I don't agree with you....
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worfen
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- #195
i think it's already been said about 30 times in this tread, but face it, people tend to have different visions about what is fun and what is not fun.. just because you hate zergs / adding /whatever doesn't mean everybody does... and the fact that they don't think like u do don't make them stupid, especially not fucking stupid.
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zapzap
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- #196
People can play this game as they like aslong no rules are broken and if so send them to GOA and complain.
ADDING is so FOTM (said by A pink firbie )
But remember we all pay to play this game and not all share u idears.
Zapsi
ADDING is so FOTM (said by A pink firbie )
But remember we all pay to play this game and not all share u idears.
Zapsi
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Juiliet
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- #197
Playing on a few sides of the discussion here, in the rvrguild, in the stealthzerg, and in the roleplay guild (occasionally), i gotta say i dont understand the point of this.
My personal view is, killing the enemy is good, ill do anything within the rules and regulations of the CoC to do so. Im afraid im: that rp-horny/want to help my realm out that much/that fucking stupid/etc.
I sure know my personal view is not the only one, and probably not the best one.
PE/BO's view generally, seems to be: we wanna fight 1fg vs 1fg.
No worse or better than my view, again, from my view.
Their choice of place to do this is excellent, they dont want to go to hadrians walls and fight the 3-4 hibs trying to have fun out there, or the 3fg trying to take beno to take darkness falls.
There are of course exceptions, im sure someone did see PE out ganking in hadrians at some point, but im sure we can agree that generally, they are not there.
They go emain, the place you go to run around CounterStrike style and kill other people. In my view, emain got very little to do with realm vs realm war. Its a place you go to have fun. Exceptions: hibs defending their frontier/relicraid/keeptake to take df
They like to fight 1fg vs 1fg. Since i was very little, ive been told to 'do to others, what you want others to do to yourself'.
So from my view, they are playing the game the best way they can according to their view. Its got very little to do with realm vs realm. A lot of them spend a lot of the gametime actually on irc, making friends with the people from the other realms.
I know a lot of mids/hibs a lot better than i know albs. I like a lot of them better than i like some albs.
We got two groups of people wanting the same, playing the same way, doing the thing that, from their view, is the best thing to do.
Rightfully, they get credit from their partners in crime for doing this, the group from the other realm wanting the same sort of fun.
Other people that dont want this kind of fun should be less concerned about what theese groups are doing really.
When you go to emain, you have to expect the people spending all their gametime in emain to have their own rules and regulations to make their gametime as enjoyable as can be.
This might ruin the fun for others, and that is regrettable.
No less are those people then ruining 'emainguilds' fun when they are zerging around, 'emainguilds' just dont put up a whine about it later.
I liked the knight-comparison.
My personal view is, killing the enemy is good, ill do anything within the rules and regulations of the CoC to do so. Im afraid im: that rp-horny/want to help my realm out that much/that fucking stupid/etc.
I sure know my personal view is not the only one, and probably not the best one.
PE/BO's view generally, seems to be: we wanna fight 1fg vs 1fg.
No worse or better than my view, again, from my view.
Their choice of place to do this is excellent, they dont want to go to hadrians walls and fight the 3-4 hibs trying to have fun out there, or the 3fg trying to take beno to take darkness falls.
There are of course exceptions, im sure someone did see PE out ganking in hadrians at some point, but im sure we can agree that generally, they are not there.
They go emain, the place you go to run around CounterStrike style and kill other people. In my view, emain got very little to do with realm vs realm war. Its a place you go to have fun. Exceptions: hibs defending their frontier/relicraid/keeptake to take df
They like to fight 1fg vs 1fg. Since i was very little, ive been told to 'do to others, what you want others to do to yourself'.
So from my view, they are playing the game the best way they can according to their view. Its got very little to do with realm vs realm. A lot of them spend a lot of the gametime actually on irc, making friends with the people from the other realms.
I know a lot of mids/hibs a lot better than i know albs. I like a lot of them better than i like some albs.
We got two groups of people wanting the same, playing the same way, doing the thing that, from their view, is the best thing to do.
Rightfully, they get credit from their partners in crime for doing this, the group from the other realm wanting the same sort of fun.
Other people that dont want this kind of fun should be less concerned about what theese groups are doing really.
When you go to emain, you have to expect the people spending all their gametime in emain to have their own rules and regulations to make their gametime as enjoyable as can be.
This might ruin the fun for others, and that is regrettable.
No less are those people then ruining 'emainguilds' fun when they are zerging around, 'emainguilds' just dont put up a whine about it later.
I liked the knight-comparison.
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Mid_Blejsarus
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- #198
For example i remember 1fight.
Bulle was fighting PE at stone valley.
We just ran passed, got a mess afterwards tnx for not adding.
We need to learn how to play 1fg vs 1fg or something similiar to that. So all dont "hate" you if avoid the "add" issue.
But will bring this subject in guild again soon. So we see what happends, i agree on some issues about add.
And some others not at all. Since a fight can be ruined if u do 1fg vs 1fg and all the suddelly 1-2group more add and it not any skills just numbers.
Bulle was fighting PE at stone valley.
We just ran passed, got a mess afterwards tnx for not adding.
We need to learn how to play 1fg vs 1fg or something similiar to that. So all dont "hate" you if avoid the "add" issue.
But will bring this subject in guild again soon. So we see what happends, i agree on some issues about add.
And some others not at all. Since a fight can be ruined if u do 1fg vs 1fg and all the suddelly 1-2group more add and it not any skills just numbers.
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cerbie
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- #199
I once stopped playing counterstrike because of all the cheating there was. I hope its not going to start in daoc now.
What worries me is you talk to the albs on irc while fighting them..
That isn't fair I think, making arrangement for fight, where is the fun there???
What worries me is you talk to the albs on irc while fighting them..
That isn't fair I think, making arrangement for fight, where is the fun there???
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faderullan
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- #200
Noone is making arrangements for fights...
Besides the odd duel sometimes.
Besides the odd duel sometimes.
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scarffs
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- #201
Ding 200.
Vaguely I remember someone saying taht we would get to 200 on this. Juiliet, nice post, I stil dont feel thats right about 'adds' and such, because we are brothers in arms, but hey, thats my point of view.
But now seriously, for the RvR guilds. If you go to a zone where there are much less people, like Pennines or Mt Collory, you wont get adds or interfering infils and such. Agree on meeting eachother there perhaps ? Of course there wont be many rr1-2-3 to farm either, but if you really want honorable combat against fgs your level, its the best way to do it.
No flame intended.
Vaguely I remember someone saying taht we would get to 200 on this. Juiliet, nice post, I stil dont feel thats right about 'adds' and such, because we are brothers in arms, but hey, thats my point of view.
But now seriously, for the RvR guilds. If you go to a zone where there are much less people, like Pennines or Mt Collory, you wont get adds or interfering infils and such. Agree on meeting eachother there perhaps ? Of course there wont be many rr1-2-3 to farm either, but if you really want honorable combat against fgs your level, its the best way to do it.
No flame intended.
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GrivneKelmorian
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- #202
Would rather see bg2 staying portable for level 50s only, as an arena where rvr guilds could "duel" or fight other rvr guilds.
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ormorof
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- #203
so the 4fg hibs at mmg the other day wasnt a zerg? the 3fg albs at hmg wasnt a zerg either? for gods sake everyone zergs and from what ive read so far there were 2 groups! now i dont know what your maths skills are like but 8+8 isnt quite 24
and about grivne being an RvR newbie..... thats one of the funniest things ive heard in a long time
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Kahland
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- #204
i would like hat too u fat troll
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GrivneKelmorian
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- #205
Originally posted by Kahland
i would like hat too u fat troll
us twolls aint phat! we are just well filled! and the girls like it!
<leans back, sighs and thinks of Rowena>
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laga
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- #206
Cheers on your attitude BO
CBA to read the whole thread but from what I read in the 1st 50 posts or so I just wanna say: Respect BO!
You play to have fun.
The funniest thing this game has to offer is a looooooong, even, hectic, you-die-and-get-a-PR, fingers-ache and knees shake 1fg vs 1fg fight. I know I had fun when adrenaline oozes out of my ears. This kind of a fight is rare so u have to up the odds of it happening by:
Not adding and teaching others not to do so.
Avoid the zerg.
etc....
I'd rather loose a fight like the above mentioned than gank a alb grp 2fgvs1fg 100 times out of a 100.
Actually loosing sometimes is more revarding since then u know u can improve.
SO...this is what I consider fun. I respect people having the same notion of fun as me BUT I also respect people having another idea of what is fun eventhough I will never UNDERSTAND people that rather do PvsE(go play neverwinternights in multiplayer) or zerg(You'll eventually get bored once the initial thrill of actually killing someone goes away).
Have fun!
CBA to read the whole thread but from what I read in the 1st 50 posts or so I just wanna say: Respect BO!
You play to have fun.
The funniest thing this game has to offer is a looooooong, even, hectic, you-die-and-get-a-PR, fingers-ache and knees shake 1fg vs 1fg fight. I know I had fun when adrenaline oozes out of my ears. This kind of a fight is rare so u have to up the odds of it happening by:
Not adding and teaching others not to do so.
Avoid the zerg.
etc....
I'd rather loose a fight like the above mentioned than gank a alb grp 2fgvs1fg 100 times out of a 100.
Actually loosing sometimes is more revarding since then u know u can improve.
SO...this is what I consider fun. I respect people having the same notion of fun as me BUT I also respect people having another idea of what is fun eventhough I will never UNDERSTAND people that rather do PvsE(go play neverwinternights in multiplayer) or zerg(You'll eventually get bored once the initial thrill of actually killing someone goes away).
Have fun!
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Kraben
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- #207
/em seriously consider rerolling hib/pryd..
Too much zerging is being implented in the game. Some will say that is just the way the game is build, others wont. I know for a fact that more and more are turning to " the dark side " searching for opted fg v fg fighst.
It may be egoistic but I think not tbh.. I know alot of people are beginning to actual think about building their groups competitive and not join the zergs, hence its far from BO only. Those who have tried a good fg v fg fight will mostely afterwards stribe to get more of that - more fun than just zerging.
I simply cant understand all the flames BO have gotten. People seems to draw their own conclusions no matter what facts presented to them. In this matter the scenario has been pointed out so many times so imo the slowest thinking should be able to see what DID happen. BO were in a inpossible situation and no matter what they did would bring the flames upon them..
Imo the BO group did what was right at the time. You simply CANT expect them to stop and analyse your group, Grivne. BO seeing you were 2 fg v 1 fg BO were in perfectly reasonble to just carry on and let you have your fun. Poiting fingers at BO afterwards blaiming them for not to interfere is utterly lame.
I know BO sometimes interfers themselves in fights where we are not needed/requested, but it is my distinct impression that is something we are trying to alter. We treat others the way we want the to treat us.
Last thing.. your own realm zerging is imo much worse than enemy realms doing same. One big zerg fighting amongst eachother for the few enemy scraps there is.. sigh.. giving serious thought of rerolling hib/pryd that way there would always be enemies to fight.
Too much zerging is being implented in the game. Some will say that is just the way the game is build, others wont. I know for a fact that more and more are turning to " the dark side " searching for opted fg v fg fighst.
It may be egoistic but I think not tbh.. I know alot of people are beginning to actual think about building their groups competitive and not join the zergs, hence its far from BO only. Those who have tried a good fg v fg fight will mostely afterwards stribe to get more of that - more fun than just zerging.
I simply cant understand all the flames BO have gotten. People seems to draw their own conclusions no matter what facts presented to them. In this matter the scenario has been pointed out so many times so imo the slowest thinking should be able to see what DID happen. BO were in a inpossible situation and no matter what they did would bring the flames upon them..
Imo the BO group did what was right at the time. You simply CANT expect them to stop and analyse your group, Grivne. BO seeing you were 2 fg v 1 fg BO were in perfectly reasonble to just carry on and let you have your fun. Poiting fingers at BO afterwards blaiming them for not to interfere is utterly lame.
I know BO sometimes interfers themselves in fights where we are not needed/requested, but it is my distinct impression that is something we are trying to alter. We treat others the way we want the to treat us.
Last thing.. your own realm zerging is imo much worse than enemy realms doing same. One big zerg fighting amongst eachother for the few enemy scraps there is.. sigh.. giving serious thought of rerolling hib/pryd that way there would always be enemies to fight.
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Farnis
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- #208
<choke>
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Kraben
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- #209
ok at least I think we stribe to do so or starting to.
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Aule Valar
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- #210
fadeh pwned me
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