RvR conunderum

[hangianix]

Originally posted by Kahland
If you dont try, you never get any better.

Sorry Kahland, but lol.

Skirmishes dead, fun grps dead, you have 2 choices - power RvR or zerg. If Osprey (for example) has 2 hrs to play/day, it's very hard to try everything. Getting killed by opt. grps over and over = not fun, zerging = not fun (tho some epic battle can be fun, would enjoy a 4fg vs 4fg vs 4fg one ), conclusion -> cancel account.

 

[old.moriath]

And this is the problem we are facing .... to go RvR and get killed without having a chance or to zerg ....

This is why something needs to be done with RvR ... as its not /lvl or anything else that will kill the game but the fact that new blood and new chars of existing people that are not in RvR uber guilds just have no chance to get anywhere.

This leads to resentment and eventually people quitting.

Imagine how long it take to get to rr5 and semi competative when scrapping for 100 rp here or there between wipe outs in the frontier.

Its getting a lot harder out that and I don't think that the people at the top of the rp food chain realise it.

 

[Turamber]

Originally posted by old.moriath
Its getting a lot harder out that and I don't think that the people at the top of the rp food chain realise it.

They probably do ... but they don't actually care. Low realm ranks from enemy realms are meat & drink to their RP addiction.

Many moons ago I posted something on the Templar forums about how people would have to RvR regularly to stay competitive in RvR. Although I got flamed to hell for saying it, turns out I was very correct. Unfortunately those of us with partners, jobs/careers and a social life will always be at a disadvantage to those who can play 24/7.

So ... we just have to grab the fun we can and make the most of the opportunities we have in game.

 

[zapzap]

Originally posted by Artemls
Well the amount of times we got PE stealth adds on us you can't say your guild are agaist adds can you? If it was your Infils/Mincers they should know not to add in a 1fg vs 1fg fight.

What he said

 

[old.moriath]

Originally posted by Turamber
They probably do ... but they don't actually care. Low realm ranks from enemy realms are meat & drink to their RP addiction.

Many moons ago I posted something on the Templar forums about how people would have to RvR regularly to stay competitive in RvR. Although I got flamed to hell for saying it, turns out I was very correct. Unfortunately those of us with partners, jobs/careers and a social life will always be at a disadvantage to those who can play 24/7.

So ... we just have to grab the fun we can and make the most of the opportunities we have in game.

Very true

/salute

 

[yerk]

some ideas on how to stop zergs

Im in a guild (Guardians of Power) which until recently has hardly ever zerged we now form 4 - 5fg zergs with our alliance for several rreason:

1 The 'uber' groups - how sad can u be to form a group that cant be killed in a fair fight.

2 The fact that in HW hibs and Mids have been sandwiching us - i cant prove there has been cooperation but irc is being monitored and there have been some 'suspicious' messgaes passing backwards and forwards

3 The realms are unbalanced in terms of ability - I challenge any mid to chosse an alb toon and let me choose a mid toon and we compare 1 to 1 eg 2 yes 2 BD's got both gates down at our keep the other day.

4 The use of bb's and plvled chars throws the whole idea of working cooperatively out of the window as does GOA's decision to introduce such overpowered solo toons as bd's.

5 Maybe if the dmg / hits was reduced ppl wud be more willing to risk a 'fair' fight - who the hell wants to spend 30 mins running to their frontier to die in 10 seconds ?

Yerk - Guardians of Power lvl 50 Cabalist rr3.9

PS our groups arent opted we get the first 8 guildees who volunteer and that's our group till some1 leaves

 

[Artemls]

Re: some ideas on how to stop zergs

Originally posted by yerk
Im in a guild (Guardians of Power) which until recently has hardly ever zerged we now form 4 - 5fg zergs with our alliance for several rreason:

1 The 'uber' groups - how sad can u be to form a group that cant be killed in a fair fight.

2 The fact that in HW hibs and Mids have been sandwiching us - i cant prove there has been cooperation but irc is being monitored and there have been some 'suspicious' messgaes passing backwards and forwards

3 The realms are unbalanced in terms of ability - I challenge any mid to chosse an alb toon and let me choose a mid toon and we compare 1 to 1 eg 2 yes 2 BD's got both gates down at our keep the other day.

4 The use of bb's and plvled chars throws the whole idea of working cooperatively out of the window as does GOA's decision to introduce such overpowered solo toons as bd's.

5 Maybe if the dmg / hits was reduced ppl wud be more willing to risk a 'fair' fight - who the hell wants to spend 30 mins running to their frontier to die in 10 seconds ?

Yerk - Guardians of Power lvl 50 Cabalist rr3.9

PS our groups arent opted we get the first 8 guildees who volunteer and that's our group till some1 leaves

Haha at the whine about getting sandwiched by Hibs and Mids. Maybe try moving around instead of camping MG's

 

[faderullan]

Its hard move around as a zerg. Easier to camp.

 

[Artemls]

No idea about that, never tried

 

[faderullan]

Remember the old days of amg. 100albs on alb side and even more mids on mid side. Hard to get the alb zerg to charge...

 

[Kahland]

Re: some ideas on how to stop zergs

Originally posted by yerk
Im in a guild (Guardians of Power) which until recently has hardly ever zerged we now form 4 - 5fg zergs with our alliance for several rreason:

1 The 'uber' groups - how sad can u be to form a group that cant be killed in a fair fight.

To kill fagys like u

 

[Cami]

Re: some ideas on how to stop zergs

Originally posted by yerk
2 The fact that in HW hibs and Mids have been sandwiching us - i cant prove there has been cooperation but irc is being monitored and there have been some 'suspicious' messgaes passing backwards and forwards

im sorry, but that made me laugh

 

[Kahland]

Re: some ideas on how to stop zergs

Originally posted by yerk

2 The fact that in HW hibs and Mids have been sandwiching us - i cant prove there has been cooperation but irc is being monitored and there have been some 'suspicious' messgaes passing backwards and forwards

Welcome home Agent Yerk, Bahahaha

 

[Turamber]

Re: Re: some ideas on how to stop zergs

Originally posted by Kahland
To kill fagys like u

Muppet

 

[Cush]

Re: Re: some ideas on how to stop zergs

Originally posted by Kahland
To kill fagys like u

For once i /salute you Kahland

 

[Turamber]

The whole concept of 'fair fights' being 1 full group v 1 full group is fundamentally flawed.

Such fights would only truly be fair if both groups contained the same classes, were of the same realm rank, both groups had the same quality spell crafted goodies and both groups had the same realm abilities ready to go at the same time.

This is a game about killing toons from enemy realms, not about 8 v 8 fights.

In any event it's quite funny how people post they want 1 fg v 1 fg fights ... but then you see their uber fotm group merrily gank soloers and 3-4 man pickup groups. It's not fairness they are interested in, it's realm points.

And no, this phenomena isn't restricted to Prydwen - the US servers have the same type of guilds on them.

 

[Cush]

Re: some ideas on how to stop zergs

Originally posted by yerk
1 The 'uber' groups - how sad can u be to form a group that cant be killed in a fair fight.

ehh???

no you cant make a group that kill my group in same number fight you are a wank then!!!

Get a grip.. why not try and make a group as optimal as possible? I have a hard time thinking that someone enjoy to die over and over, so why not try your best not to do so?

 

[faderullan]

"The uber groups" have the same skills and tools(ok, maybe a few better ra's) as all the others. What stops others from making these "perfect" groups.

 

[Turamber]

Not a direct answer to your question Fadeh, but does address it somewhat & raises some interesting thoughts/observations. Copied below part of a post from the VN Boards, RvR forum.

"The other day, I came home from work early and I decided to log into DAOC for an RvR session. I port over to Emain (no surprise) and I need to look for a pick-up group because my usual "squad" will not arrive until later in the evening. I have RR4 and RR5 melee classes and I usually don't have too much difficulty finding a group, but the one thing that became painfully clear was the effect of Realm Rank on RvR.

I eventually created a fairly balanced RvR team: Speed, CC, Healing, Buffs, Resists, Damage output, etc. The group itself was composed of older players, but they were playing low Realm Rank Alts (Realm Rank 1-3). I really didn't think too much about it, until we were destroyed five times in a row (perseverance) in RvR.

As I was waiting on the portal for the the next rotation, I started to reflect about our string of failures. It really wasn't our tactics (fairly straight forward and sound) or the competance of the players (all have Realm Rank 5+ mains), but it suddenly became clear we couldn't compete with the high Realm Rank enemies we were encountering.

I had taken for granted that all the tanks in my "usual squad" have Determination III+, Ignore Pain, First Aid II, Purge, Mastery of Pain, Aug. Stats, etc. Furthermore, the casters in my squad have combinations of MoC, Aug Acuity, Wild Power, Wild Arcana, MCL, and a cache of potions. Finally, lets not forget the minimum requirements of full SC, max resists, and alchemical goodness. Our squad has realistic expectations when battling equivalent realm rank groups, but we walk all over lower realm rank teams.

In conclusion, I am beginning to see a need to "possibly" divide the frontier into zones for Realm Ranks 1-4 and Realm Ranks 5-10. I really don't like the idea of a Battleground 4, but it would be interesting to have strategic zones (Yggdra, Sauvage, and Collory) that could only be patrolled by lower realm rank players.

I would like feedback, I am not complaining or preaching, but I am starting to wonder if the "Zergs" the "veteran RvR players" complain about are a direct result of their/our own superior powers.

Why would any group of lower Realm Rank players bother fighting a group of higher Realm Rank players in a match of even numbers, when the fight itself is hardly even? I am starting to see a propensity for lower realm rank players to "zerg" and hopefully scrap up enough Realm Points to possibly compete with the big dogs. . . "

 

[faderullan]

I dont buy it. When i was low realm rank, I did groups and we still had a good chance vs those higher realm rank groups.

 

[GrimReaper]

Re: Re: some ideas on how to stop zergs

Originally posted by Cush
ehh???

no you cant make a group that kill my group in same number fight you are a wank then!!!

Get a grip.. why not try and make a group as optimal as possible? I have a hard time thinking that someone enjoy to die over and over, so why not try your best not to do so?

First off, try not insulting people if you want anyone reading the forums to seriously listen to you arguments.

Secondly, many guilds in this game encourage their members to do rvr, regardless of their class or their rr. Sure we could wait for an hour or two and put together an 'elite' group. And that would create friction in the guild and piss of a lot of the guildees. How would new players get on the rp ladder? You may be in a guild like that, but many guilds work with their guildees and not against them.

These less optimal groups have no chance against the 24/7 rp hungry groups, and so we will have to run >1fg to combat them. Its as simple as that. tbh until Mythic change rvr in some way, the 'elite' groups would be better takking themselves to quieter zone away from emain for 1fg v 1fg fights. This could be arranged between them. They wont thought, because no matter what they say, they are in it for the rp's, not the fair fights

Grim

 

[osp]

Originally posted by Turamber
Not a direct answer to your question Fadeh, but does address it somewhat & raises some interesting thoughts/observations. Copied below part of a post from the VN Boards, RvR forum.

"The other day, I came home from work early and I decided to log into DAOC for an RvR session. I port over to Emain (no surprise) and I need to look for a pick-up group because my usual "squad" will not arrive until later in the evening. I have RR4 and RR5 melee classes and I usually don't have too much difficulty finding a group, but the one thing that became painfully clear was the effect of Realm Rank on RvR.

I eventually created a fairly balanced RvR team: Speed, CC, Healing, Buffs, Resists, Damage output, etc. The group itself was composed of older players, but they were playing low Realm Rank Alts (Realm Rank 1-3). I really didn't think too much about it, until we were destroyed five times in a row (perseverance) in RvR.

As I was waiting on the portal for the the next rotation, I started to reflect about our string of failures. It really wasn't our tactics (fairly straight forward and sound) or the competance of the players (all have Realm Rank 5+ mains), but it suddenly became clear we couldn't compete with the high Realm Rank enemies we were encountering.

I had taken for granted that all the tanks in my "usual squad" have Determination III+, Ignore Pain, First Aid II, Purge, Mastery of Pain, Aug. Stats, etc. Furthermore, the casters in my squad have combinations of MoC, Aug Acuity, Wild Power, Wild Arcana, MCL, and a cache of potions. Finally, lets not forget the minimum requirements of full SC, max resists, and alchemical goodness. Our squad has realistic expectations when battling equivalent realm rank groups, but we walk all over lower realm rank teams.

In conclusion, I am beginning to see a need to "possibly" divide the frontier into zones for Realm Ranks 1-4 and Realm Ranks 5-10. I really don't like the idea of a Battleground 4, but it would be interesting to have strategic zones (Yggdra, Sauvage, and Collory) that could only be patrolled by lower realm rank players.

I would like feedback, I am not complaining or preaching, but I am starting to wonder if the "Zergs" the "veteran RvR players" complain about are a direct result of their/our own superior powers.

Why would any group of lower Realm Rank players bother fighting a group of higher Realm Rank players in a match of even numbers, when the fight itself is hardly even? I am starting to see a propensity for lower realm rank players to "zerg" and hopefully scrap up enough Realm Points to possibly compete with the big dogs. . . "

That was an excellent post m8 enjoyed reading it a lot of valid points made.......

 

[Kahland]

Originally posted by Turamber
Not a direct answer to your question Fadeh, but does address it somewhat & raises some interesting thoughts/observations. Copied below part of a post from the VN Boards, RvR forum.

"The other day, I came home from work early and I decided to log into DAOC for an RvR session. I port over to Emain (no surprise) and I need to look for a pick-up group because my usual "squad" will not arrive until later in the evening. I have RR4 and RR5 melee classes and I usually don't have too much difficulty finding a group, but the one thing that became painfully clear was the effect of Realm Rank on RvR.

I eventually created a fairly balanced RvR team: Speed, CC, Healing, Buffs, Resists, Damage output, etc. The group itself was composed of older players, but they were playing low Realm Rank Alts (Realm Rank 1-3). I really didn't think too much about it, until we were destroyed five times in a row (perseverance) in RvR.

As I was waiting on the portal for the the next rotation, I started to reflect about our string of failures. It really wasn't our tactics (fairly straight forward and sound) or the competance of the players (all have Realm Rank 5+ mains), but it suddenly became clear we couldn't compete with the high Realm Rank enemies we were encountering.

I had taken for granted that all the tanks in my "usual squad" have Determination III+, Ignore Pain, First Aid II, Purge, Mastery of Pain, Aug. Stats, etc. Furthermore, the casters in my squad have combinations of MoC, Aug Acuity, Wild Power, Wild Arcana, MCL, and a cache of potions. Finally, lets not forget the minimum requirements of full SC, max resists, and alchemical goodness. Our squad has realistic expectations when battling equivalent realm rank groups, but we walk all over lower realm rank teams.

In conclusion, I am beginning to see a need to "possibly" divide the frontier into zones for Realm Ranks 1-4 and Realm Ranks 5-10. I really don't like the idea of a Battleground 4, but it would be interesting to have strategic zones (Yggdra, Sauvage, and Collory) that could only be patrolled by lower realm rank players.

I would like feedback, I am not complaining or preaching, but I am starting to wonder if the "Zergs" the "veteran RvR players" complain about are a direct result of their/our own superior powers.

Why would any group of lower Realm Rank players bother fighting a group of higher Realm Rank players in a match of even numbers, when the fight itself is hardly even? I am starting to see a propensity for lower realm rank players to "zerg" and hopefully scrap up enough Realm Points to possibly compete with the big dogs. . . "

smaller posts plz

 

[scarffs]

Re: Re: some ideas on how to stop zergs

Originally posted by Kahland
To kill fagys like u

Kahland you get the grand prize of the intelligent replies.

 

[Cush]

Re: Re: Re: some ideas on how to stop zergs

Originally posted by GrimReaper
First off, try not insulting people if you want anyone reading the forums to seriously listen to you arguments.

Secondly, many guilds in this game encourage their members to do rvr, regardless of their class or their rr. Sure we could wait for an hour or two and put together an 'elite' group. And that would create friction in the guild and piss of a lot of the guildees. How would new players get on the rp ladder? You may be in a guild like that, but many guilds work with their guildees and not against them.

These less optimal groups have no chance against the 24/7 rp hungry groups, and so we will have to run >1fg to combat them. Its as simple as that. tbh until Mythic change rvr in some way, the 'elite' groups would be better takking themselves to quieter zone away from emain for 1fg v 1fg fights. This could be arranged between them. They wont thought, because no matter what they say, they are in it for the rp's, not the fair fights

Grim

Never said it was wrong for ppl with less experience or not able to set up a opted group to run with more then 1 fg. What i replayed at was Yerk calling people sad for making a group as good as possible. Maybe you should read more what people post before you have an opinion mr.

 

[fayle]

Originally posted by faderullan
I dont buy it. When i was low realm rank, I did groups and we still had a good chance vs those higher realm rank groups.

faderullan why don't you gather a bunch of rr2-3 alts from experienced players and try a few fights with BO or MM, do you honestly believe you'll stand a fair chance?

 

[faderullan]

Fayle: I have beaten them with that so my answer is yes

I admit though. It is harder.

 

[scarffs]

Ok, it might be possible if you're very lucky AND have a good group setup AND all know eachother.

Casual players cant always group with the same people since they're never online all at the same time, and if they are, the 8 chars will never be a good setup. There will be a mix of characters who dont make a good team. What are the chances then ?

 

[hangianix]

Originally posted by faderullan
Fayle: I have beaten them with that so my answer is yes

I admit though. It is harder.

But not the new savage setup Hadess.

 

[Aule Valar]

Re: Re: Re: some ideas on how to stop zergs

Originally posted by GrimReaper
These less optimal groups have no chance against the 24/7 rp hungry groups, and so we will have to run >1fg to combat them. Its as simple as that. tbh until Mythic change rvr in some way, the 'elite' groups would be better takking themselves to quieter zone away from emain for 1fg v 1fg fights. This could be arranged between them. They wont thought, because no matter what they say, they are in it for the rp's, not the fair fights

Grim

Actually we're in it for the fun of fair fights and for the rps as well.
zerg farming can be quite fun, but fg vs fg is most fun, or 1fg vs 2fg of low rr if they're not too blanced so its winnable if your lucky