Very interesting DPS-test Mostly mid tanks sofar, but

[Vaar]

Came over this on VN.

The new mid RvR TL have run a test on DPS for melee-classes. Its NOT complete and please read the background, since it is not a straightforward a+b=dps. For instance he have NOT used common specs, but maxed weapon for all classes, he uses same race on all and have not calculated in resists for thane/skald spell dmg, and so on.

Still a very interesting read.

Directly to the test-results

To a post that discusses the "faults and findings"

Discuss...? As expected or...? Heh, do this belong in general discussion or even mid...? Better than gratz threads IMO

 

[cougar]

Came over this on VN.

The new mid RvR TL have run a test on DPS for melee-classes. Its NOT complete and please read the background, since it is not a straightforward a+b=dps. For instance he have NOT used common specs, but maxed weapon for all classes, he uses same race on all and have not calculated in resists for thane/skald spell dmg, and so on.

Still a very interesting read.

Directly to the test-results

To a post that discusses the "faults and findings"

Discuss...? As expected or...? Heh, do this belong in general discussion or even mid...? Better than gratz threads IMO

yeah h2h svg isnt best! he use taunt only i think tho

 

[-Freezingwiz-]

lol Thane and skald outdmg a 50 Pole 50 Crush specced HO Merc

 

[flex]

who what easymode ?

albion rox !

 

[Ilienwyn]

Quote=Mid RvR TL:

On the styles, all styles were that were used were the ones with the most comparable growth rates. For example on the Merc, the Side Crush Chain and the Mid Axe Frontal Chain have the exact same rates/bleeds...though in reality obviously they would be much harder to get off being from the side. Just wanted to use numbers with the same growth rates for this test.

For the Armsman, used the Phalanx/Def Aegis Chain, as it was only .05 behind in style one, and exact in style two. Only issue being there was no bleed effect available for the Polearm Spec in comparable growth rates. My conclusion from that was Armsman need some help, as that was a Back Chain, and they still couldn't bring very good damage.

----------------------------



Ahaha, even Mid RvR TL can see weakness of armsman!!

Oh and funny comparing side chain with anytime chain. But the I guess Mids are more skilful so they can do any time chains for high damage when Alb gimps should get a good position

 

[PJS]

lol at savages 50% more damage than everyone else

 

[Vaar]

lol Thane and skald outdmg a 50 Pole 50 Crush specced HO Merc

You mean armsman I recon, but still...

Honestly I did'nt quite get that one myself. And it's from the MID RvR TL so I would guess he didn't cheat on the Merc and Arms(although there was something about DT he forgot if I remember correct)

Now I just need a volentere Alb to stand still for 10 minutes so I can test the amazing 61 522 dmg I can do Please form a line outside Svas. Aah I also need a buffer, a race respec and some starting points resepec... Nvm.

A fun note:
Skald total dmg = 61 521
Thane total dmg= 61 522

Thats so close that is almost incredible

My conclusions is that regarding how the classes DO work in RvR, concidering abillities and roles:

Thanes need a DPS increase. (prolly though a spell effect or smth, not dmg tablewise (the test shows aprox 3000 too much dmg, and it is done with a troll with 50sc 50weapon 28 shield spec, and 431(wow) str)
Warriors could have a slight DPS increase, although they have defensive stamina like few others.
Zerkers could use a variant of help to. I think the savas have too much of an edge even considering cost of selfbuffs and crappy armor. Nerfin savas even more would be too harsh. better bringing others a bit closer.

As for the alb tanks. If theese numbers are true, and tells the whole story... Give arms + 100 str

 

[Zzang]

Oh and funny comparing side chain with anytime chain. But the I guess Mids are more skilful so they can do any time chains for high damage when Alb gimps should get a good position

I believe he said frontal position? Which is position front, not anytime. Also, mercs have the best what u call "anytime", dual shadows is by far the best pos front style. Also side crush sucks balls compared to flank / shadow's rain, which are both rly good dmg styles.

 

[[SS]Gamblor]

bahh , giv a hybrid table imo,

See that Friars would be way down ... well in comparion Dps with the matority of other classes.

but one thing that brought this up , Thane is in there , but no Friar, Champ , VW

 

[Vaar]

but one thing that brought this up , Thane is in there , but no Friar, Champ , VW

It's from the Mid RvR TL... The albs were introduced as an comparison. And he even tested them a bit badly (forgetting some tricks and and using wrong style). So this IS primarily a MID test. From what it looks it may be updated with the other Realms tanks once he get to it... Even skald and SB wasn't in on the first draft

AND AGAIN remember it's lots of weaknesses. The test creator explicitly pointed this out. "This ain't no bible..:" It's good as a element of judging class performance, but its NOT the whole story.

 

[[SS]Gamblor]

aye i understand that, just really intreresting test tbh.
I know it's not a bible , but it's at the very least a good look at the differences between classes, and that Savages do seem to WTF just using the Anytime, and reading the thread all the savages are asking him to do the Reactionary moves just to see the difference in figuers

 

[fl3a]

why use styles with same growth rate? you could just do a test unstyled instead.

 

[Chilly]

why use styles with same growth rate? you could just do a test unstyled instead.

when was the last time you didnt use a style in a mele fight?

 

[katt!]

when was the last time you didnt use a style in a mele fight?

then why use ones with "the same growth rate" and not a set one like anytime/back/side?

 

[Flimgoblin]

A fun note:
Skald total dmg = 61 521
Thane total dmg= 61 522

Thats so close that is almost incredible

My conclusions is that regarding how the classes DO work in RvR, concidering abillities and roles:

Thanes need a DPS increase. (prolly though a spell effect or smth, not dmg tablewise (the test shows aprox 3000 too much dmg, and it is done with a troll with 50sc 50weapon 28 shield spec, and 431(wow) str)

erm why do thanes need a DPS increase - this is them standing fighting and they're equal to a skald - if they go to range then the thane's dps is much higher than the skalds it's called hybrid utility.

Oh and armsmen really need a boost

Incidentally I'd say nerf savages rather than buff everything else (if you were to make any changes) - if you have 20 classes, 1 of which is way overperforming you nerf that one not the other way around. Though the savage in theory has disadvantages for getting that much damage....

 

[Filip]

poor armsmen.... considering most arms wouldnt go 50 pole 50 [weaponstyle] it is bad really bad...

 

[Vasconcelos]

Shows exactly how broken is the damage table of savages.

I would not be surprised if we see a "LeftAxe" sized nerf for h2h spec with the incoming patches.

 

[Dorin]

Shows exactly how broken is the damage table of savages.

I would not be surprised if we see a "LeftAxe" sized nerf for h2h spec with the incoming patches.

can do, not much will be around after NF anyways.

 

[Vaar]

erm why do thanes need a DPS increase - this is them standing fighting and they're equal to a skald - if they go to range then the thane's dps is much higher than the skalds it's called hybrid utility.

It's not that obvious on first glance, I admit. But the "high" Thane output in close combat must be viewed in the light of he running selfbuff dmg add (also for the skald btw). Remove this, or add a dark runni one or a charged one (both are better) on any of the others, the differance grows bigger. This will not benefit a Thane as much as the others. In addition the test is run with 0 energy resists, where in real RvR we are facing more or less 50%.

So this test has many flaws, and comparing the castable ranged attack for a thane to the lack of such of a skald... Skalds can mezz and snare, thank god that we all have our speciallities. The thanes argument is that "all" we can do is dmg. And we are lacking too much in the DPS department. Players know this all over the world->Thane's low on all RP-charts. This is only a number which makes it even more obvious...

But do not blindly look at the numbers. Lots of factors. Daoc is a complicated piece of math

 

[Flimgoblin]

indeed - but don't forget thanes can do repeatable damage from range, they can do aoe damage too - this is utility in a way, not so good for pwning solo as a snare and a mezz though.

 

[Vaar]

indeed - but don't forget thanes can do repeatable damage from range, they can do aoe damage too - this is utility in a way, not so good for pwning solo as a snare and a mezz though.

Heh I have played one for a year and a half (not that much RvR though) so I think I know most of the ins and outs. The repetable range dmg is as you correctly identify it... Utillity. One heal and my full powerbar ain't enough to kill a enemy tank... Some resists and a heal is not even needed...

The thane Aoe(s) is more feared by mids than from albs and hibs, so I'm think on solid ground arguing for a form of dps or (god forbid) a groupfriendly feature.

As many now have seen Thanes are now moving up on the RP-gain charts in NF. Last I saw was a rise from position 38 to 34... Heh. Think we can handle some more love without going over the top...

All in all, bringing in Thanes and skalds (with magic added) complicated the test. For thanes the most, since he is using the less than cookicutter 2H 50/50/28 spec for thanes. The skald used the (after all) more regular 50/43...smth..6? So if you add all factors up thanes are quite a bit screwed. But we all know that. Still most fun class ingame and played good you can contribute at least on par in quite some RvR situations... BG'ed sm anyone...

 

[Filip]

pffttt you forget the gimp arms !! you ignore him

thane look >>>>>>> arms tbh ..... "more" utility better dam ... i guess arms got more HP and better armor .. but who the heck would hack on an armsman ?

 

[Vaar]

As for the alb tanks. If theese numbers are true, and tells the whole story... Give arms + 100 str

Heh. Self quote.

But I recon neither arms nor thane is your classic FotM

 

[fl3a]

when was the last time you didnt use a style in a mele fight?

what katt said.

 

[Glottis]

I still refuse to believe that this information is true.
This would mean I would be right...
Oh no, the horror poor little Mids...
Regards, Glottis

 

[cougar]

one midclass does slightly more melee dmg, but albs and hibs got all good realmabilitys and platearmor and pets etc and refuse to see the truth that they are overpowered cs newbs

Regards, Cougar

 

[Aussie]

but who the heck would hack on an armsman ?

erm guardxmen 100%
if you touche me heale i kill you

 

[Glottis]

one midclass does slightly more melee dmg, but albs and hibs got all good realmabilitys and platearmor and pets etc and refuse to see the truth that they are overpowered cs newbs

Regards, Cougar

50% is deemed slighly more melee damage by some random Mid noob.
Typical.
Regards, Glottis

 

[Claudius]

50% is deemed slighly more melee damage by some random Mid noob.
Typical.
Regards, Glottis

He is just trying to defend his class against nerfs.

 

[cougar]

50% is deemed slighly more melee damage by some random Mid noob.
Typical.
Regards, Glottis

2 differant "i win" realmabilitys available in alb along with bodyguard, yet some random noob complain about melee dmg.

Regards, Cougar