Angel - 5 Eps to go...

[Jonny_Darko]

The last few epsiodes of Angel have been possibly the best straight run on the show I've ever seen (from the rogue slayer ep right through to the latest, discounting the submarine sillyness), and with only 5 episodes to go it looks like they're going for a big finish.

Anyone else see 5 x 17 (Underneath) yet?

Spoiler

Great to see Adam Baldwin back in action! Loved him putting his fist through that guard - somehow Lorne and the girls screaming turned something quite nasty into a very funny moment. Also, I wonder what anyone would have made of Angel lobbing a sofa at a 6 year old boy if they walked in at that moment?

I looked at spoilers for the end of Buffy so must try and avoid them this time around. I'm guessing the moppet (or, Connor) will return but beyond that I really don't have a clue what to expect. Still pissed that my guess for this year - Teams Angel and Spike tearing each other, and LA apart each believing they're in the right - didn't happen as that could have thrown up some great conundrums about good/evil and its relationship with perspective.

Looking at some older eps, it's been weird to see Holland Manners and other previous W&H bosses using the same kinds of lines when discussing stuff with other W&H people as Angel's been coming out with all year.

I guess I'm expecting a happy-ish ending, but not before some severe darkness - hopefully even a righteous evil turn from my man Wes.

Bring on the pain!

 

[nath]

Wasn't that guy Krycek in The X Files?

 

[Jonny_Darko]

Which guy, the muscle? Loved that line btw - "Man, he is well dressed!"

No he did play a super soldier in the X-Files though. He's probably more well-known as the fantastic Jayne Cobb from Firefly, an awesome show you should be checking out!

http://shop.game.net/ViewProduct.aspx?cat=11182&mid=323071

 

[nath]

I saw half an ep of Firefly and tbh it really didn't interest me - despite the fact that I'm a hardcore Whedon fan. Having said that, I've not really given it a chance. Also, I kinda disagree with you on recent angel.. this episode mainly. I'm sure I've said this before but season 3 and 4 really did nothing for me, season 5 redeemed itself just before it got cancelled - that last episode had little/no effect though.
Case and point:

Spoiler

Gunn being trapped in that hell dimension, possibly never to return really didn't effect me much :\

Anyhoo, I'm sure the last few episodes will be pretty good, I hope they end it as well/satisfyingly as they ended buffy but I'm not sure they'll be able to.

 

[Jonny_Darko]

Half an ep? Took me a good season and a half to get into Buffy! Plus I'm sure you know you HAVE to watch Whedon stuff from the beginning. Watching a Season 3 Buffy at its height without knowing the backstory and characters would lead most to believe it's shite. It should only take one (full!) ep with Firefly though. If you can watch the pilot "Serenity" and not want to watch more you're probably nuts

IMO Firefly was - pound for pound (considering there's so little of it) much better than either Buffy or Angel ever was, and thinking about the places we never saw it go makes me mad. Film on the way though.

 

[nath]

Heh, it's funny you should mention that, as I got in to Buffy late season 2/early 3 ish. I remember asking friends online "how come she could bend that shotgun, is she like a superhero or something?"

 

[Sissyfoo]

Firefly was possibly the best sci fi show I have ever seen. Even the theme was f'kin awesome!!

I have to say that I haven't been overly impressed with the recent Angel eps (apart from the puppet one; that was brilliant!! ). The submarine ep was pure pap and some of the others before that just weren't up to par. I noticed that Whedon wrote the puppet one so mebbe he will have more of a hand in the last few? Hope so.

Mmm...Firefly. ~sighs in fond rememberance~

 

[Ala]

I can't stand to watch Angel and I can't stand the hype even more

 

[Whipped]

I hate it when series that I love end, but it has to happen sometime. I never really got on with Angel at first. It all seemed a bit over-the-top silly compared with Buffy. But I got in around the Pylia stuff and went back to watch it from the begining. Despite all my hopes I know the end of the series will not be everything I want, the same as Buffy wasn't. But I'm sure I won't be to diasappointed.

By the way, have people seen this -> http://www.savingangel.com/

 

[Jonny_Darko]

WB won't pick it up, it's beyond saving now - even Boreanaz wants to stop I think. There's talk of the possibility of a big budget TV movie next year, assuming of course they don't all die at the end!

 

[Sissyfoo]

I can't stand to watch Angel and I can't stand the hype even more

Philistine!! :touch:

 

[Jonny_Darko]

I can't stand to watch Angel and I can't stand the hype even more

What fucking Hype? You mean the hype where 99.9% of the world's population will openly laugh at anyone who says they like Angel, let alone say that its a well-written show. And they'll ridicule you openly to others for trying to say that yes, you do watch it but yes, you're also straight.

No fucker hypes it. I've never heard anyone beyond me and a select few other fans talk about it positively, and that's not hype. Enough hype gets dished out to those who don't deserve it. Peter Andre anyone? You leave our "soft homo-porn" TV alone, ok? It deserves far more "hype" than it's ever had or ever will.

 

[Aada]

Angel rocks ive watched every ep so far will miss it heres hoping for the movies they said theyw ill make

 

[FuzzyLogic]

What really bothers me is that shit like Charmed is renewed when shows like Angel aren't*



*Yes i'm biased against Charmed, i gave it a chance but all it ever surmounted to me was three bimbos** banging on about the power of three.



**Alyssa, I didn't mean it, marry me

 

[Whipped]

Forgot that the next ep was out last Wednesday. Just got round to watching it.

Spoiler

Looks like you were right Jonny. With Connor coming back, although from the looks of it, it seems that it was just a one off. Although the fact that he actually got his memories back means that he could find it difficult to return to his previous life and turn up again before the end.

My guess would be that the next episode is going to set the scene for the last 4 and lead up to a big finalie where the Senior Partners are maybe banished from the human world/dimension.

Spoiler

I wonder what the proposal was that the senior partners had for Gunn?

 

[Jonny_Darko]

Spoiler

I thought that was another good ep. Great payoffs for longterm fans as loads of arcs were finished off (I always wondered if Sahjahn would be back). The thing is, I expected the Wesley / Conner / Team Angel mindwipe thing to have been what the end of the season was based around, and that's all cleared up now so I have no idea where they're going to go next!

Thought the Conner thing was really sad tbh, but really the only way it could have ended.

Loved the whole Ilyria / Spike / Clipboard thing. Ilyria's getting really interesting now.

Nath, what you said about not feeling sorry for Gunn...bet you do now, especially after he wouldn't even hear Hamilton out?

 

[Jarakin]

Have to say that thus far the best episode of season 5 of Angel for me was the one where he's turned into a muppet. Seriously had me in fits of laughter God i loved that ep. Fred's alterego is rather refreshing too imo ;o

 

[nath]

Still not really, Jonny :\

 

[Jonny_Darko]

I remembered another plotline that was left hanging from way back in Season 2. Apparently the intention was to look into it and explain it in Season 3 but the arguments between Joss Whedon and David Greenwalt over the direction of the series (which possibly turned out to be the best season - Nath you're crazy) led to it not getting looked at (and David Greenwalt leaving).

Remember when Angel broke into Kate's flat to save her from an overdose, despite not being invited? It was mentioned but never explained. And where is Kate anyway? I can see her turning up to finish things off between her and Angel before the end. One more character I could imagine turning up is Chantarelle/Lilly/Anne or whatever her name was last time we saw her. And thinking about it, Justine has unfinished business with Angel though I reckon she'd be too scared of being tied up and beaten by Wesley to think about following it up.

Oh dear I better stop now or this could go on forever.

 

[nath]

Anne as in the one who was in Buffy S3 ep 1 and in S2 before that as the girl who was in the vampire obsessed group?

I didn't see that there was really anywhere to go with regards to Angel getting in without being invited.. I just thought it was a nice little "You're not always on your own mate" type sentiment.

 

[Durzel]

I've pretty much lost faith in Whedon to be honest.

If you cut through the fanboyism haze that surrounds him and his work you soon realise that the last season of Buffy, and this last season of Angel - aside from a few inspired moments - has been a shambles. Characters with no purpose, with storylines that we're supposed to believe are epic but are either left unresolved, or just swept away glibly so the show can go on.

It's biggest failing is that there are so many characters with nowhere near enough story to go around. Spike gets introduced early on in the season, has the potential to be a big player in the season (he certainly has the screen presence/fan attraction for it) has a two episode run where hes built up to be the new champion, and then when that story serves its purpose and Whedon & Co run out of ideas they just tie it up in a haphazard way. For most of the episodes hes just reduced to being the comedy sidekick, continually being beaten up by everyone and anyone.

Its not the fact that we're meant to accept these weak plotlines that makes it bad, but the fact that whilst these storylines are being unravelled we're expected to believe its hugely significant when - like most Whedon ideas that aren't thought through well - they're just trite episode fillers.

There is very little believable continuity in it anymore, and worse still you're just not shocked by the monsters anymore - everything that is fantastical is just treated like everyday life. At least in the early seasons of Buffy (1-4) you genuinely felt as if demons and vampires were out of the ordinary, fearsome creatures.

Don't get me wrong, I like watching Angel and will watch the remaining episodes as I did with Buffy - but I'm doing so more out of a need for closure rather than an avid interest. WB did the right thing in cancelling the series in my opinion - another season with the characters not going anywhere in loosely thought up single-episode plotlines would kill off whats left of the shows integrity.

 

[Jonny_Darko]

single episode plotlines like the recent episode 14 to 19 Illyria Arc? Or the conner episode which tied up loose ends from both seasons 3 and 4? Or the Lyndsey stuff which goes right back to day 1? The WB gave Mutant Enemy specific instructions to make the episodes self-contained this year, so yeah, it has been a bit monster of the week, but the arc plots have still been blatently there for the longterm fans.

Just seen 19 - Time Bomb. Some amazing moments but not as good as it should have been.

Spoiler

Didn't really get Angel at the end. If he was ever going to be corrupted it would have happened long before now and I don't think a pep talk from Ilyria is enough to give him incentive to (apparently) give up the good fight. Maybe he's got something up his sleeve. Also not sure if the time disaplcement plot wholly worked. It's like they just tried to be as confusing as possible to sound clever but actually it makes no sense - to me at least. Scary to see team angel wiped out in about 15 seconds though!

 

[Sissyfoo]

I've pretty much lost faith in Whedon to be honest.

If you cut through the fanboyism haze that surrounds him and his work you soon realise that the last season of Buffy, and this last season of Angel - aside from a few inspired moments - has been a shambles. Characters with no purpose, with storylines that we're supposed to believe are epic but are either left unresolved, or just swept away glibly so the show can go on.

It's biggest failing is that there are so many characters with nowhere near enough story to go around. Spike gets introduced early on in the season, has the potential to be a big player in the season (he certainly has the screen presence/fan attraction for it) has a two episode run where hes built up to be the new champion, and then when that story serves its purpose and Whedon & Co run out of ideas they just tie it up in a haphazard way. For most of the episodes hes just reduced to being the comedy sidekick, continually being beaten up by everyone and anyone.

Its not the fact that we're meant to accept these weak plotlines that makes it bad, but the fact that whilst these storylines are being unravelled we're expected to believe its hugely significant when - like most Whedon ideas that aren't thought through well - they're just trite episode fillers.

There is very little believable continuity in it anymore, and worse still you're just not shocked by the monsters anymore - everything that is fantastical is just treated like everyday life. At least in the early seasons of Buffy (1-4) you genuinely felt as if demons and vampires were out of the ordinary, fearsome creatures.

Don't get me wrong, I like watching Angel and will watch the remaining episodes as I did with Buffy - but I'm doing so more out of a need for closure rather than an avid interest. WB did the right thing in cancelling the series in my opinion - another season with the characters not going anywhere in loosely thought up single-episode plotlines would kill off whats left of the shows integrity.

Seems to me that WB pulling the plug has lead to the majority of the storylines being cut short, not the other way around. Not a lot Whedon can do if he has only got 10 or so eps to close off 5-6 different storylines other than finish off some of them quickly and try to make the remaining one as good as possible.

 

[Aada]

I've pretty much lost faith in Whedon to be honest.

If you cut through the fanboyism haze that surrounds him and his work you soon realise that the last season of Buffy, and this last season of Angel - aside from a few inspired moments - has been a shambles. Characters with no purpose, with storylines that we're supposed to believe are epic but are either left unresolved, or just swept away glibly so the show can go on.

It's biggest failing is that there are so many characters with nowhere near enough story to go around. Spike gets introduced early on in the season, has the potential to be a big player in the season (he certainly has the screen presence/fan attraction for it) has a two episode run where hes built up to be the new champion, and then when that story serves its purpose and Whedon & Co run out of ideas they just tie it up in a haphazard way. For most of the episodes hes just reduced to being the comedy sidekick, continually being beaten up by everyone and anyone.

Its not the fact that we're meant to accept these weak plotlines that makes it bad, but the fact that whilst these storylines are being unravelled we're expected to believe its hugely significant when - like most Whedon ideas that aren't thought through well - they're just trite episode fillers.

There is very little believable continuity in it anymore, and worse still you're just not shocked by the monsters anymore - everything that is fantastical is just treated like everyday life. At least in the early seasons of Buffy (1-4) you genuinely felt as if demons and vampires were out of the ordinary, fearsome creatures.

Don't get me wrong, I like watching Angel and will watch the remaining episodes as I did with Buffy - but I'm doing so more out of a need for closure rather than an avid interest. WB did the right thing in cancelling the series in my opinion - another season with the characters not going anywhere in loosely thought up single-episode plotlines would kill off whats left of the shows integrity.

Hm well the episodes have'nt been as good as season 1-4 but can you blame him? i mean everyone was expecting Angel to come back for a 6th season and that would have been the last. Also the WB ordered JW to make the episodes to be monster of the week which i think suck tbh!

I mean the sixth season would have wrapped up all the story lines with each character but what did they do? give him like 6-7 eps to wrap up alot of characters total bullshit imo theres just no way they can do that without screwing the season up and making it pretty bad.

The only real complaint i have about Joss is that he seems obsessed with FireFly and the film based of it Serenity.

Heres hoping for atleast a movie of Angel/Buffy to wrap up stuff and finaly lay it to rest.

 

[Jonny_Darko]

The only real complaint i have about Joss is that he seems obsessed with FireFly and the film based of it Serenity.

Firefly is the creation of his that he's most into. I also believe it's his best work, so I couldn't be happier that he's obsessed with making the movie as good as it deserves to be.

He's also writing a new X-Men comic at the moment.

 

[Aada]

I watched a couple of episodes could'nt get into it SCIFI shows dont interest me all that much.

I think Buffy is his best work so far and would do alot better as a movie then firefly for sure

 

[Aada]

I regret what i said about Firefly i just watched an episode around a friends house was amazing lol so i went out and bought the dvd

 

[Jonny_Darko]

That was the quickest turnaround in history! Good work, enjoy the DVD (as if I even need to tell you!).

Hopefully one day JW will make a movie of "Fray". That would be cool.

 

[Durzel]

One thing I will say however, I actually prefer Illyria to Fred.

 

[Aada]

il be watching the 3rd disc tonight can't wait