Israel/Palestine (Conflict to more Conflicts)

[Wij]

So we should be supporting Saudi Arabia?

We should be bombing other countries? Getting directly militarily involved ourselves?

And for what? Because a handful of non-British container ships are getting nabbed (and in the case of the last one, I think it was stolen back).

And all whilst, instead of stopping our Israeli ally from committing war crimes, we're enabling them.

We've been sort-of supporting the Yemeni government by selling arms for years now. Surprised you hadn't noticed. The Yemeni government is hardly a model of human-rights-goodness but what government in the area is. The Houthis are a direct projection of Iranian power and are part of the long-running cold/proxy war between Iran (Shia) and Saudi (Sunni). Very little to do with Israel. It's one of the many conflicts that you take no interest in until there's a chance to make it about Israel.

And it's in the world's interests to stop the Houthis. The Red Sea / Gulf of Aden is one of the most vital shipping lanes in the world. Without ships being able to traverse there and into the Med shipping journeys could take weeks longer. The impact on world prices could be enormous. Shipping has a right to traverse those waters. No one has the right to take that away. Illegal attacks provoke international response is not controversial.

 

[Scouse]

It's one of the many conflicts that you take no interest in until there's a chance to make it about Israel.

Absolutely I'm interested. I don't think we should be taking Saudi Arabia's side against Iran. The Saudi's are not a world of amazing human rights are they. So why are we in bed with them? We should be allies of neither.

And it's in the world's interests to stop the Houthis. The Red Sea / Gulf of Aden is one of the most vital shipping lanes in the world. Without ships being able to traverse there and into the Med shipping journeys could take weeks longer. The impact on world prices could be enormous. Shipping has a right to traverse those waters. No one has the right to take that away. Illegal attacks provoke international response is not controversial.

Yes. It is. And instead of bombing the shit out of other countries in direct military engagement we could stop the Houthi's attacking shipping by stopping Israel committing genocide.

The massive increase in shipping attacks are a direct response to the disgusting actions of the world's biggest terrorist state.

Fix Israel and world trade goes back to normal. And aside from the world trade angle - we don't look like the absolute cunts we are in the eyes of the rest of the world - and half of our own population.

Instead, we're shielding Israel. As far as I'm concerned, whilst I don't want to say "fair game" on the shipping, I think it's frankly hardly even a thing compared to what Israel are doing. If we're bombing Houthi's for interfering a little bit with trade, we should be threatening to bomb Tel Aviv if they don't stop genocide - their "illegal attacks", which aren't provoking any response from us.

If we're going to act as World police we must have a moral centre. (Rather than ignoring human suffering and bombing as soon as profits might go down).

 

[Wij]

Absolutely I'm interested. I don't think we should be taking Saudi Arabia's side against Iran. The Saudi's are not a world of amazing human rights are they. So why are we in bed with them? We should be allies of neither.



Yes. It is. And instead of bombing the shit out of other countries in direct military engagement we could stop the Houthi's attacking shipping by stopping Israel committing genocide.

The massive increase in shipping attacks are a direct response to the disgusting actions of the world's biggest terrorist state.

Fix Israel and world trade goes back to normal. And aside from the world trade angle - we don't look like the absolute cunts we are in the eyes of the rest of the world - and half of our own population.

Instead, we're shielding Israel. As far as I'm concerned, whilst I don't want to say "fair game" on the shipping, I think it's frankly hardly even a thing compared to what Israel are doing. If we're bombing Houthi's for interfering a little bit with trade, we should be threatening to bomb Tel Aviv if they don't stop genocide - their "illegal attacks", which aren't provoking any response from us.

If we're going to act as World police we must have a moral centre. (Rather than ignoring human suffering and bombing as soon as profits might go down).

Absolute bollocks.

Israel did not attack shipping in the Red Sea. Iranian-backed-proxies did. Of course they can claim it's in response to what Israel is doing in Gaza but we are under no obligation to take that as a valid reason.

 

[Scouse]

Israel did not attack shipping in the Red Sea. Iranian-backed-proxies did. Of course they can claim it's in response to what Israel is doing in Gaza but we are under no obligation to take that as a valid reason.

However, it IS a valid reason. It's in direct response to Israel's actions.

If we're bombing to protect profits, we can - and should - bomb to stop hitler burning jews. Oh, sorry, Netanyahu burning muslims.

There's an actual genocide going on right now. And you're angry about boats and the price of ipads.

 

[Scouse]

I'm not saying we shouldn't be protecting shipping btw @Wij - but it's hypocritical that we're doing that, and not doing the other.

 

[Wij]

There's an actual genocide going on right now. And you're angry about boats and the price of ipads.

Piracy is against international law.

 

[Wij]

I'm not saying we shouldn't be protecting shipping btw @Wij

It seemed like you were. If you aren't, why even mention it?

 

[Scouse]

Piracy is against international law.

Couple of ships vs 2.2 million people.

Genocide is against international law.

I've mentioned it because we've picked a side. We've picked the side of enabling genocide. We're absolutely morally on the wrong side of history.

But then we've form for that haven't we. We let Hitler get on with exterminating the jews.

 

[Wij]

It’s not a side. Houthis committing Piracy is not the same as Gazans. Different things. Letting Houthis hold shipping to ransom does nothing to help Gazans.

 

[Scouse]

It’s not a side.

Yes. Yes it is. As much as you'd like to deny it. They're attacking in solidarity with the palestinians. Israel stops, and the Houthi's stop attacking boats they deem destined for Israel.

So, we've chosen a side - we're bombing Yemen to protect profit, but we're NOT bombing to stop genocide.

Siding with Saudi Arabia, protecting ongoing genocide in Israel. We won't even ask Israel to cease fire, never mind stop providing them with our weapons. We're just so classy.

We're killing the jews, sorry, muslims. We've clearly picked a side.

 

[Wij]

Yes. Yes it is. As much as you'd like to deny it. They're attacking in solidarity with the palestinians. Israel stops, and the Houthi's stop attacking boats they deem destined for Israel.

So, we've chosen a side - we're bombing Yemen to protect profit, but we're NOT bombing to stop genocide.

Siding with Saudi Arabia, protecting ongoing genocide in Israel. We won't even ask Israel to cease fire, never mind stop providing them with our weapons. We're just so classy.

We're killing the jews, sorry, muslims. We've clearly picked a side.

Sorry, but no. We stop Somali pirates and we stop Houthis attacking shipping in the same area too. It's the same thing. It's not a side in the Israel/Gaza conflict. Neither are a party here.

I don't give a shit why Houthis say the are doing this. That's them trying to link the conflicts. That doesn't mean they are because Houthis aren't our moral guardians. Iran knew there would be an international response (and Saudi and UAE were NOT included). You'd let them tell you why you are doing things?

So no. Argue all you want. No.

 

[Wij]

We're killing the jews, sorry, muslims.

Won't somebody think of the missile launchers!?!

 

[Ormorof]

The reason Iran is using them is because there would be an international response, much like Hamas this lets them cause chaos and death for their enemies (and allies) and they lose practically nothing that a few oil dollars wont replace

If it wasnt for Gaza it would be for something else this conflict has been ongoing for ages

 

[Scouse]

Won't somebody think of the missile launchers!?!

The nuclear armed state that's using it's missile launchers against the section of it's population it keeps in an open prison you mean?

Israel needs to die as it currently is. It's a stain on western morality. If we want to show the muslim world how things are done, we need to end this "land for the jews" bullshit and make it a shining beacon of secularism.

 

[Scouse]

If it wasnt for Gaza it would be for something else this conflict has been ongoing for ages

Yep. Shipping attacks have been a thing, but not to this level. Much of the muslim world is absolutely agitating for this - Iran absolutely - because of what's going on in Israel.

And you know what? They're right on this.

They're wrong on nearly everything else. But when it comes to what's going on in Israel right now, the whole world is looking at the west and going "moral leadership? You're having a laugh". China and Russia are looking much better because of it. It's less safe for jews worldwide - and westerners in certain parts of the world.

 

[Wij]

The nuclear armed state that's using it's missile launchers against the section of it's population it keeps in an open prison you mean?

Israel needs to die as it currently is. It's a stain on western morality. If we want to show the muslim world how things are done, we need to end this "land for the jews" bullshit and make it a shining beacon of secularism.

I was thinking of the Houthis being attacked by the US and UK. But there you go insisting on conflating things.

 

[Wij]

Yep. Shipping attacks have been a thing, but not to this level. Much of the muslim world is absolutely agitating for this - Iran absolutely - because of what's going on in Israel.

And you know what? They're right on this.

They're wrong on nearly everything else. But when it comes to what's going on in Israel right now, the whole world is looking at the west and going "moral leadership? You're having a laugh". China and Russia are looking much better because of it. It's less safe for jews worldwide - and westerners in certain parts of the world.

They're not right on this. What gibberish are you coming out with. Attacking shipping in the Red Sea because of what is happening in Gaza? That's not right.

Disagree with what Israel is doing in Gaza all you want. Saying, fine, in that case terrorism and piracy is justified, is twisted.

 

[Wij]

Saudi and UAE specifically kept themselves out of this action to make the point that this is not about the wider conflict. It’s about maintaining shipping for everybody. Kremlin shills like Hinkle want to link them:


View: https://twitter.com/kiansharifi/status/1745692970865615334?s=61&t=iv1E1O7hVRuRm0TFdyUzyw

 

[Wij]

Really this should be in a Yemen thread:


View: https://twitter.com/10downingstreet/status/1745711212896096519?s=61&t=iv1E1O7hVRuRm0TFdyUzyw
https://twitter.com/stwuk/status/1745713414859563393?s=61&t=iv1E1O7hVRuRm0TFdyUzyw

 

[Scouse]

They're not right on this. What gibberish are you coming out with. Attacking shipping in the Red Sea because of what is happening in Gaza? That's not right.

Attacking ships with Israeli links.

It must be nice to be able to pretend everything is separate and there's no interrelated issues, despite the fact that there clearly are. Saudi Arabia might be "separate" from our action - but that's fucking bullshit itself.

The Houthi's kicked out the Saudi-backed Yemeni government. Saudi Arabia wants their Yemeni government friends back - and we, allies of Saudi Arabia, are happy to bomb them to bits. Not actually doing the bombings themselves and having your friends do it is the same fucking thing. Saudi is absolutely happy with what we're doing there.

Regardless of the ships - we're not stopping genocide. As much as you seem to care about a handful of boats and ipads, I think if you're fighting a proxy war against the west and we're currently enabling genocide, then swing away.

If we can't be arsed stopping genocide being committed by one of our allies, then I frankly don't give a shit whether Iran starts attacking our economy via it's Houthi proxies.

If the west can't act in the correct moral fashion, I can't get myself worked up when people attack it.

 

[Scouse]

Really this should be in a Yemen thread:


View: https://twitter.com/10downingstreet/status/1745711212896096519?s=61&t=iv1E1O7hVRuRm0TFdyUzyw

View: https://twitter.com/stwuk/status/1745713414859563393?s=61&t=iv1E1O7hVRuRm0TFdyUzyw

So, reposting tweets from a government that is currently supporting genocide?

I think in the context of us propping up Israel, the attacks against UK and US warships are hardly surprising.

If we acted morally regarding genocide, I'd condemn them. But right now, I couldn't give less of a fuck. Because we stand with Israel, we're the criminal aggressor.

 

[Wij]

Defending international shipping lanes is about the most correct use of international naval force there is. End.

 

[Wij]

Also, I got blocked by @STWuk. Must be doing something right

 

[Scouse]

I know you want to separate them. But the shipping attacks started in November. So:

Defending international shipping lanes is about the most correct use of international naval force there is. End.

Ships bound for Israel are fair game, just as nazi collaborators were during WWII. End.

 

[Wij]

Ships bound for Israel are fair game

I mean they aren’t all bound for Israel and it doesn’t just affect those ships but you’re summing up your opinion here. Terrorism is ok if if’s done in the name of a cause you agree with. Regardless of whether it will actually help that cause.

We can leave it now. You are clear.

 

[Raven]

We sell weapons to both sides, then go and blow it all up.

We learned a lot from empire.

 

[Scouse]

Separate eh @Wij?

The US and British attacks on the Houthis in Yemen are not just, as ministers in London have suggested, about the freedom of navigation and world trade. They are directly linked to events in Gaza and represent an escalation of the crisis that is gripping the region.

That's from Auntie. I wonder what makes it so hard for you to accept the obvious.

And to answer this, directly:

Terrorism is ok if if’s done in the name of a cause you agree with.

This is true of all of us. Nelson Mandela's ANC was a terrorist organisation. The suffragettes got votes for women after a bombing campaign.

Israel is committing genocide. Fighting against that might have Israel's allies label those actions terrorist. But it's clear - not all terrorist actions are wrong. Israel's genocide lends them legitimacy - and our support of Israel makes us legitimate targets.

We talk a good game in the west don't we. We abhor the holocaust. And rightly so. But we don't mean it, not really. Or we'd act to prevent similar atrocities - not help enable them.

 

[Wij]

I don’t give a shit about a quote in a BBC article. If international shipping lanes are being attacked then world powers will intervene and it doesn’t matter one jot why the Houthis say they are doing something. I don’t let them be my moral compass. The Yemeni war has resulted in hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths. I won’t join you in taking their side as that would be really hypocritical. Civilian deaths don’t only matter in Gaza. Houthis are cunts. They are being cunts and are getting their missile launchers destroyed in return. That is not a bad thing.

 

[Wij]

For context:


View: https://twitter.com/briannawu/status/1745776524656021654?s=61&t=iv1E1O7hVRuRm0TFdyUzyw

 

[Scouse]

Back with the whataboutism and 'guilt by association' bollocks. Anything but what Israel, our ally, is doing right now in Gaza, eh?

You mentioned moral compass...

You're right about one thing though. It's not been great in Yemen. Even when they were under their old governmemt, which were allies with Saudi Arabia (and us).

If you're serious about weakening the west's enemies - Iran, Russia - then you need to get real on Israel. Because Israel is a fucking big weakness that strengthens their hand and weakens ours.