United States Corrupt Twattery

[Rubber Bullets]

All republicans, except for the most retarded want him gone. They aren't going to get rid though because it would end their careers too. They will just sit back and let it happen.

Yup, the Republican party are between a rock and a hard place. They want him gone, but if they're seen to do the pushing they lose the 20-25% of the electorate who are still faithful to Trump. I figure they're desperately trying to find a way to get him out without losing his base before he screws the country so completely that they'll never get back in regardless. Gaff's "heart attack" is sounding like a good bet.

 

[BloodOmen]

Still beyond me how anyone can still be a trump supporter.. they must literally have the minds of 2 year old cabbage patch kids.

 

[Scouse]

Alternatively:

People who hold "jobs" are for show.
So what if your best mate doesn't hold an official position - especially if what you say goes and you're still mates?

 

[Gwadien]

I reckon it's this guy; putting Trump on the straight and narrow.

John F. Kelly - Wikipedia

 

[Wij]

Actually it's both.

The White House gets to say this racist stuff isn't our official position whilst Bannon gets to support him and rile up the base in whatever way he sees fit with zero accountability. Win-win really.

 

[Hawkwind]

Well the racists are twats. That isnt open to debate. They are however perfectly entitled to the hold that opinion and voice that opinion under the American constitution.

You can't silence people because they happen to hold a different opinion, no matter how dumb it is. If you try then you are just as abhorrent as they are.

Agreed, it seems even having the audacity to air that opinion (freedom of speech) would result in labeling as a fascist by these SJW / ANTIFA twats. It absolutely makes me cringe listening to shit they come out with in defense of their safe spaces etc.

 

[Hawkwind]

They're fighting facists and nazis - they're not a threat to wider society. I'm not a fan of violence but then the only people on the end of their sticks are jackbooted white supremacists who'd happily re-light the ovens and start wholesale genocide if they got into power, so I struggle to give too much of a fuck.

Also, some of them are undoubtedly left leaning - you'd naturally expect that from people who are fighting the far right - but continuing to equate them all with communists is disingenuous.

Methinks you've got a bit too much apologist in you if you're aiming for a mixed-political, mixed race, mixed sexuality, mixed faith group of anti-facists and saying "they're just as bad as nazis" - when there's clearly no equivalence..

They are also fighting against debate in America's universities and freedom of speech in favour of a one sided neo-liberal (SJW) view. They have burned books and rioted against conservative speakers all over America. Not accepting to even listen to any view but their own. That is a very dangerous path for America and it it is winning right now.

 

[Hawkwind]

Agreed, it seems even having the audacity to air that opinion (freedom of speech) would result in labeling as a fascist by these SJW / ANTIFA twats. It absolutely makes me cringe listening to shit they come out with in defense of their safe spaces etc.

Should probably qualify that with what makes me cringe: White privilege for one, no debate and labeling. When you actually see these people interviewed its clear they are just following the movement and have no real broad view about the issues. The biggest issue for me is shutting down debate, especially in universities. One place where debate is critical, hearing all sides and making informed opinions and analysis. Silencing the opposing views is not democratic and they seem closer to origins of the liberal Nazi Party they probably realise.

 

[Job]

I can't help but think a lot are simple anarchists, the rest idealists with rather simplistic scenarios playing out in their heads when they march against racism...or at least their version of it.

 

[DaGaffer]

Should probably qualify that with what makes me cringe: White privilege for one, no debate and labeling. When you actually see these people interviewed its clear they are just following the movement and have no real broad view about the issues. The biggest issue for me is shutting down debate, especially in universities. One place where debate is critical, hearing all sides and making informed opinions and analysis. Silencing the opposing views is not democratic and they seem closer to origins of the liberal Nazi Party they probably realise.

This is all entirely true; buuut, that doesn't mean white supremacists should get any kind of platform, especially a presidential one.

It's one thing to take a strong line on free speech and defend someone's right to say something, another to defend what they're actually saying or even their character. While all this shit about statues may seem a fascile subject to start killing people over, there's no denying there's a deeper problem here; can you think of anywhere else on earth where statues of defeated leaders were put up after their defeat? In some cases these statues aren't even that old. The South, with official backing, regularly displays symbols associated with slavery, and black people are simply supposed to put up with it because it's part of southern "culture". It's bollocks, and while I fucking hate talk of "white privilege" etc. this kind of shit is where that kind of shit came from.

 

[Hawkwind]

This is all entirely true; buuut, that doesn't mean white supremacists should get any kind of platform, especially a presidential one.

It's one thing to take a strong line on free speech and defend someone's right to say something, another to defend what they're actually saying or even their character. While all this shit about statues may seem a fascile subject to start killing people over, there's no denying there's a deeper problem here; can you think of anywhere else on earth where statues of defeated leaders were put up after their defeat? In some cases these statues aren't even that old. The South, with official backing, regularly displays symbols associated with slavery, and black people are simply supposed to put up with it because it's part of southern "culture". It's bollocks, and while I fucking hate talk of "white privilege" etc. this kind of shit is where that kind of shit came from.

Regards Statues - Boadecia (Boudica), William Wallace and Napolean for a start But agree with your general point.

The problem with freedom of speech is that as soon as you start defining what your allowed to speak about its destroyed. If there is incitement for violence then the line is crossed. Now it seems you can't have a discussion unless you have first warned everyone of possible triggering. I wonder how long it will before we see warnings on TV and Media akin to the "contains flash photography and may cause epilepsy" but for trigger warnings.

EDIT - What is really worrying is that the neo-liberal movement cannot get what it wants through courts but government is happy to take PC to an absurd new level.

 

[DaGaffer]

Actually it's both.

The White House gets to say this racist stuff isn't our official position whilst Bannon gets to support him and rile up the base in whatever way he sees fit with zero accountability. Win-win really.

The cynic in me thinks this is the case, but I'm reading a lot of stuff that suggests there's been a genuine falling out and Bannon set himself up to be sacked (the interview he did earlier in the week was very out of character for him) because Trump isn't getting the job done from his pov.

 

[DaGaffer]

Regards Statues - Boadecia (Boudica), William Wallace and Napolean for a start But agree with your general point.

The problem with freedom of speech is that as soon as you start defining what your allowed to speak about its destroyed. If there is incitement for violence then the line is crossed. Now it seems you can't have a discussion unless you have first warned everyone of possible triggering. I wonder how long it will before we see warnings on TV and Media akin to the "contains flash photography and may cause epilepsy" but for trigger warnings.

EDIT - What is really worrying is that the neo-liberal movement cannot get what it wants through courts but government is happy to take PC to an absurd new level.

The Romans left, The Scots actually won in the end, and with the exception of his tomb, the Napoleon monuments were generally put up during his life time, but fine, I take your point. But the scary thing about Confederate symbols is that they are still politically active; Mississippi started flying the Confederate flag above state buildings in the 1960s, during the Civil Rights protests. And because of the way the US is set up, it was allowed to happen.

NB. I wouldn't be surprised if the trigger warning thing hasn't started already, we just haven't noticed it.

 

[Raven]

The beauty of speech and more importantly, freedom, is that you don't actually have to listen to it. Can you imagine the impotent rage and complete nullification of the racists argument if everyone just walked past without even recognising their existence. Like that mad Christian dude in every town centre.

 

[Embattle]

The modern day bastards of history.

 

[DaGaffer]

The beauty of speech and more importantly, freedom, is that you don't actually have to listen to it. Can you imagine the impotent rage and complete nullification of the racists argument if everyone just walked past without even recognising their existence. Like that mad Christian dude in every town centre.

A slightly less effective argument when the racists are in government.

 

[Job]

E

This is all entirely true; buuut, that doesn't mean white supremacists should get any kind of platform, especially a presidential one.

It's one thing to take a strong line on free speech and defend someone's right to say something, another to defend what they're actually saying or even their character. While all this shit about statues may seem a fascile subject to start killing people over, there's no denying there's a deeper problem here; can you think of anywhere else on earth where statues of defeated leaders were put up after their defeat? In some cases these statues aren't even that old. The South, with official backing, regularly displays symbols associated with slavery, and black people are simply supposed to put up with it because it's part of southern "culture". It's bollocks, and while I fucking hate talk of "white privilege" etc. this kind of shit is where that kind of shit came from.

Exactly this..a far bigger problem than some toothless Dads Army nazis.

 

[BloodOmen]

Prediction that Trump is about to resign... bet that'd be a bitter pill to swallow for cheeto face.

 

[Raven]

In need of adult supervision

Solar eclipse 2017: Donald Trump looks directly at the Sun - BBC News

 

[Job]

1 in 10 say it's acceptable to hold neo-Nazi views (POLL)

 

[Job]

Polls shows majority of Americans think Confederate statues should remain

 

[Raven]

Should knock them all down, including mount Rushmore.

See how they like it when they have to think about it and not just "raise awareness" in the echo chamber.

 

[DaGaffer]

1 in 10 say it's acceptable to hold neo-Nazi views (POLL)

10% of the population are always racist fucktards. Everywhere. I've pointed this out before and your numbers just confirm it further.

 

[DaGaffer]

Its very simple; Confederate monuments raised before 1864 should be left alone (history), after that date, remove them as they should never have been allowed in the first place given they were explicitly raised to keep uppity n*ggers in their place.

 

[Bodhi]

I do agree with Trump that it's a bit of a slippery slope to start knocking down statues based on them owning slaves - as it wasn't just the Confederacy, the rest of the states were heavily involved as well. If they did that the US would basically have 0 statues left.

Apart from that one of Lenin in Seattle. That's OK apparently.

 

[Ormorof]

It is perhaps a good idea to question our public spaces occasionally

UK has its fair share of statues of white supremacists (cecil rhodes is the one that keeps popping up in the news)

Should they be kept as a monument to an era built upon the backs of slaves? Or should they be put in a museum?

Personally i like absurd statues the best

 

[Bodhi]

I always think it is dangerous to hold historical figures to the same stnadards of behaviour as modern figures - absolute evil like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Savile then yes, absolutely. But Rhodes, Lee etc, that were engaged activities practised by the rest of the world at the time? I'm less convinced. I mean if Churchill was around these days, I'm pretty sure half of Twitter would think he was Satan.

 

[Job]

Yes..we have loads of Nelson Mandela areas in the UK.
Convicted mudering terrorist child killer.
But history rewritten and its OK.

 

[DaGaffer]

I do agree with Trump that it's a bit of a slippery slope to start knocking down statues based on them owning slaves - as it wasn't just the Confederacy, the rest of the states were heavily involved as well. If they did that the US would basically have 0 statues left.

Apart from that one of Lenin in Seattle. That's OK apparently.

But its total whataboutery though; its not really being suggested that Jefferson or Washington statues etc should be removed. This is specifically about the Confederacy and even more so about the fact that Confederate symbols have been raised and tolerated after the Civil War for so long. The slavers lost, but you wouldn't know it from all the statues they've put up and flags they've flown since. They should replace the statues of Lee with Sheridan and Sherman and see how the Southerners like that reminder of the Civil War.

 

[Raven]

Washington was a slaver and quite a bastard with it.