State Sponsored Murder

[Scouse]

Can I say Dirty Dirty Jews without getting auto-censored?

This is bound to go down well during the current round of US-brokered can-kicking-bullshit peace talks, eh?

Israel is a terrorist state, protected by a much more powerful terrorist state IMO...



Edit: It appears I can!

Edit edit: Can we have a "Polonium" tag?

 

[ECA]

Well this is bound to help things in the region.

 

[rynnor]

Polonium as an alpha emitter is a pain to detect since you generally want to enclose the delicate detector of your geiger counter but if you do you will block alpha radiation.

 

[Raven]

I wish someone would just end Israel, would solve a lot of problems in the region.

 

[rynnor]

I wonder how common these polonium assasinations really are? No-ones going to find it who doesn't go looking for it.

 

[Scouse]

I wish someone would just end Israel, would solve a lot of problems in the region.

Agreed. There needs to be a single big state with a secular government and hugely strong anti racism laws.

Remove the apartheid walls and rename the whole shebang "whatapalavaville" or "don'teverletpoliticiansinterferehereagainland"...

 

[Raven]

Yeah. If Israel wasn't so inherently evil then it would be fine but the country is run by despicable cunts who have no problem with illegal occupation or systematic war crimes. They are no better than the Nazis. Not Jews mind, Israelis. Christian Israelis are also massive thundercunts.

 

[Scouse]

They are no better than the Nazis.

As in many cases in life the abused become the abusers. This is clear as can possibly be in the case of israel.

 

[soze]

Israel were right all along. He was clearly trying to develop a Nuclear weapon and he poisoned himself!

This is a pretty stupid and expensive way to kill someone though and one they are unlikely to ever get away.

 

[ileks]

Will they ever be able to prove anything though?

Also, and I don't support a lot of what they do, but Israelis being "no better than the Nazis" is such a silly thing to say.

 

[SilverHood]

I wish someone would just end Israel, would solve a lot of problems in the region.

Because Syria, Egypt and Libya all proved that if left to their own devises, they will become better places for the people who live there? Maybe once they've killed all the Jews, Christians and non-believers of the Islamic majority sect. I wouldn't wish that kind of solution on anyone.

Ask the non Jewish in Israel if they would be willing to relocate to another middle eastern country.... most would be quite happy to stay where they were, in a country with laws, elections, free speech and some semblance of order. It is not paradise, but it is better than the alternatives. If you really want to see Nazi methods in actions, then look at the refugee camps in Jordan, Lebanon and Syria, the vast majority of whose inhabitants will live and die in a concentration camp.

As for Arafat, he had a list of enemies a mile long, on both sides of the conflict, no evidence saying it was the Israeli government. If they had wanted him dead, they could easily have done it. Far more likely that it was Hamas, Hezbollah, the US or Russia, who benefited the most from instability in the region.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Also, and I don't support a lot of what they do, but Israelis being "no better than the Nazis" is such a silly thing to say.

Yeah, Nazis weren't that bad.... before the whole taking over the world thing.

 

[Hawkwind]

I wish someone would just end Israel, would solve a lot of problems in the region.

Sadly it wouldn't though. The Arabs will never unite, not even against a common enemy.

 

[Chilly]

Yeah, Nazis weren't that bad.... before the whole taking over the world thing.

They fucking were. It was never anything except an ultra right wing facist party, and that's why they were elected.

 

[rynnor]

Has anyone seen the hard data for the levels of polonium they located? I was wondering if that's 18 times the background level now (which years after the event for a chemical with a short half life would only be a tiny remnant) or if they took their findings and extrapolated the original levels?

 

[old.Tohtori]

They fucking were. It was never anything except an ultra right wing facist party, and that's why they were elected.

Was more meant as a joke to say israelis are worse then nazis

 

[Chilly]

Has anyone seen the hard data for the levels of polonium they located? I was wondering if that's 18 times the background level now (which years after the event for a chemical with a short half life would only be a tiny remnant) or if they took their findings and extrapolated the original levels?

Half life of 138.376 days. It happened almost 9 years ago to the day, given the half life the amount remaining in his body would be approx 0.00238% of the amount when he died.

 

[Scouse]

Because Syria, Egypt and Libya all proved that if left to their own devices, they will become better places for the people who live there?

I guess we'll never know. They've never been left to their own devices - western interference is rife. Where do you think the "Syrian" liver-eating mercenaries rebels get all their weapons?

One thing I do know is that Iraq was a better country left to it's own devices. Saddam had the sunnis and shias living together in relative harmony and the best educated population in the whole of the middle east. Now the whole country is covered in a thin layer of depleted uranium, kids are being born with horrendous deformations, cancer is endemic, sectarian killings are rife and the government is as corrupt as it ever was.

Saddam's dictatorship was hellabenign by comparison.

no evidence saying it was the Israeli government

Other than that they'd stated that he was a terrorist, that they wanted him dead, they've form for hopping around the world carrying out extra-judicial killings and that for two years prior to his death they'd surrounded his camp keeping him prisoner inside.

If they had wanted him dead, they could easily have done it

And they did.

 

[Hawkwind]

Half life of 138.376 days. It happened almost 9 years ago to the day, given the half life the amount remaining in his body would be approx 0.00238% of the amount when he died.

Probably higher levels of background radiation from Radon-222 in Cornwall

 

[rynnor]

Half life of 138.376 days. It happened almost 9 years ago to the day, given the half life the amount remaining in his body would be approx 0.00238% of the amount when he died.

Yup but is the 18 times what was left now (which would certainly indicate poisoning) or is that extrapolated to be the level when he died which probably wouldn't be poisoning.

 

[Hawkwind]

One thing I do know is that Iraq was a better country left to it's own devices. Saddam had the sunnis and shias living together in relative harmony and the best educated population in the whole of the middle east. Now the whole country is covered in a thin layer of depleted uranium, kids are being born with horrendous deformations, cancer is endemic, sectarian killings are rife and the government is as corrupt as it ever was.

Saddam's dictatorship was hellabenign by comparison.

Sorry Scouse but that is complete Bollocks! He killed thousands of Kurds in the North. Plus the 7 year war with Iran during which he took the opportunity to wipe out entire shia villages on the Iraqi side. There is a big community of Shia Iraqi's in UAE and Bahrain that fled the country during his reign.

 

[DaGaffer]

Sorry Scouse but that is complete Bollocks! He killed thousands of Kurds in the North. Plus the 7 year war with Iran during which he took the opportunity to wipe out entire shia villages on the Iraqi side. There is a big community of Shia Iraqi's in UAE and Bahrain that fled the country during his reign.

Yes but he did say "by comparison". I do wonder what the world would be like if he hadn't invaded Kuwait; looking back that has to the major historical turning point that drives the whole 21st century.

 

[rynnor]

Yes but he did say "by comparison". I do wonder what the world would be like if he hadn't invaded Kuwait; looking back that has to the major historical turning point that drives the whole 21st century.

Yes and when he sounded out the US before the invasion they said fine.

 

[Chilly]

Yup but is the 18 times what was left now (which would certainly indicate poisoning) or is that extrapolated to be the level when he died which probably wouldn't be poisoning.

Dunno, I was just giving an indication. And in fact ,I just looked into it a bit more. The sample was taken in 2012, so actually it's 0.0095%. And, working that the other way, that equates to 18.9M times the normal amount found on the day of his death. The better analysis would be to look for the uranium 238 it would decay to and work out the ratios there.

 

[DaGaffer]

Reading the article...why would the Israelis bother? Arafat was a cipher by 2004; the PLO was done and there were loads of more important fish to fry for the Israelis (Hezbollah and Hamas in particular). This seems like an incredibly subtle and expensive way to off a guy for almost no return.

Now Mossad certainly isn't averse a bit of revenge killing, but in all the history of Israeli assassinations (and there have been quite a few) poisoning has only even been suspected once, and that was back in 1976 (in the Munich reprisals phase). Normally if the Israelis want you dead they fire a missile at you and don't give a fuck what anyone says, this doesn't fit the profile.

 

[Scouse]

Sorry Scouse but that is complete Bollocks

Yes but he did say "by comparison"

What Gaff said. Saddam was no princess - but he didn't even have the capacity to do to Iraq the sort of long-term damage and leave the horrendous legacy that the west has left.

He was a pussy compared to disinterested decision-makers thousands of miles away.

 

[Scouse]

Arafat was a cipher by 2004

He was still an incredibly important figurehead. And hearts and minds count for a lot.

 

[rynnor]

The better analysis would be to look for the uranium 238 it would decay to and work out the ratios there.

It decays to the Lead isotope 206 Pb. This is a common form of lead and the polonium amount is so tiny it would not register.

 

[Chilly]

It decays to the Lead isotope 206 Pb. This is a common form of lead and the polonium amount is so tiny it would not register.

doh. good spot. been a while since I failed my physics degree at the end of the second year

 

[rynnor]

Reading the article...why would the Israelis bother? Arafat was a cipher by 2004; the PLO was done and there were loads of more important fish to fry for the Israelis (Hezbollah and Hamas in particular). This seems like an incredibly subtle and expensive way to off a guy for almost no return.

I don't think thats true - information from inside Israel that I heard this morning was that even in 2004 he was discussed on a dailly basis as a problem.

Poisoning with polonium is effective and extremely hard to detect, is untreatable and not very traceable (except back to russia who produce the stuff).