United States of Po-Po

Aoami

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so not getting involved in this, not worth the effort

i would just add though that i think a lot of it comes from the mindset that "its true in norfolk, so its true in england" being carried over to "its true in texas , so it must be true for the whole of the US"
Why you raggin' on Norfolk?
 

Scouse

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Edit: Meh, yer right.

Thread's been derailed - re-read the guardian piece. :)
 

Cerb

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No I could use the logic "It only happened in a couple of places it's not bad enough to warrant cops" (paraphrasing) to come up with the point that if only a couple of campus police have caused problems what's the harm?

Do you think they walk around doing random searches or something? I'm sure plenty of Uni's in England have security of some sort, they just call it something different here. And yes maybe they carry weapons that they shouldn't but America is a very weapon friendly place and I can't defend that.
 

Uncle Sick

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F*k off weith your "i'll bite". The statement holds truth, these laws start somewhere and if not stopped then, have the potential to spread globally.

As i already said with the smoking ban. It has nothing to do with what the smoking ban was, but how it spread.
Oh, I see what you did there. It was a law passed in a federal state in a country somewhere and was adapted by other countries - but - it provided US bashing material. Silly me.

Just checking - do you think they should get shit?
I like the french approach to burkas. It's a symbol of oppression. If you want to live in a democracy and be part of it, you do your best to fit in. Not just mooch the benefits. When in Rome...

But you have campus police??!
Cerb said it already - campus police is more like security. If an actual crime happens on a college campus they call the 'real' cops.

Don't make the mistake to compare structures in countries tit for tat. Americans are all about individuality and that represents itself even in law enforcement.

Sheriff, Police, State Police, Game Wardens, Campus Police... there's going to be a long list of individual law enforcement agencies. You move from one county to the next and you'll have different uniforms, different color pattern cruisers etc.

I am glad, though that the Burka issue was the only flaw you could find with my previous post, Scouse. ;)
 

old.Tohtori

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Oh, I see what you did there. It was a law passed in a federal state in a country somewhere and was adapted by other countries - but - it provided US bashing material. Silly me.
Maybe you should take a chill'a'f*cking pill and realise that my post was in no way US bashing and simply a comment that even if it's "just texas", it still has potential to spread. Which would be bad.

Motherf*cking black&white thinkers i swear to gods..
 

Uncle Sick

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Maybe you should take a chill'a'f*cking pill and realise that my post was in no way US bashing and simply a comment that even if it's "just texas", it still has potential to spread. Which would be bad.

Motherf*cking black&white thinkers i swear to gods..
Business as usual with you. You use a specific example in a post, get countered and fall back to swearing/high horses/black&white thinking/cherry picking/etc.

And yes, if that spread it would be bad. But it won't.
 

old.Tohtori

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Ngh...forget it. It wasn't a specific example to counter, it was an example of a law spreading. Why do you make it so difficult.

You have a stick up your arse about anything i post(for past 8 years or so), fine, be that way, i don't care anymore.

Guess i f*cked your mom and forgot to call or something :rolleyes:
 

Uncle Sick

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If not agreeing with you or failing to see the comedic value of your posts hurts your feelings, I'm sorry.

More specifically in response to your post: you gave an example of a good law spreading. Having armed police in a high school for no valid reason, on a permanent basis is bad. If this law spread, it would be a bad law.

I reserve the right to disagree and if the subject is important to me, well, I'm not from planet Vulcan.


And my mom said not to call. That was strictly a one time thing.
 

Scouse

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I like the french approach to burkas. It's a symbol of oppression. If you want to live in a democracy and be part of it, you do your best to fit in. Not just mooch the benefits. When in Rome...
I dislike the oppressive French laws against the burka. As much as I dislike Islam and all the shit that goes with it the state has no place in legislating against it. You'll find a lot of muslim women who want to wear the burka - because they hold a religious belief that that's what god wants them to do.

Yes, it's batty as shit - but no more batty than christian beliefs, and you don't get the state legislating against them in such an overt way.

The French passed the law because, in general, the population hates muslims and they're prejudiced - racist, if you like - against muslims.

Americans are all about individuality and that represents itself even in law enforcement.
Are Americans about individual's freedom of religion or are they ready to support a ban on burkas through their law enforcement establishments? :)


I am glad, though that the Burka issue was the only flaw you could find with my previous post, Scouse. ;)
I just wasn't trying very hard (not feeling that argumentative). How about this?:

In Russia you'll be taken into 'protective custody' if it turns out that your dog was born in Chechnya.
In America, in direct contravention of your own constitution, you face a $250,000 fine and up to ten years in prison if you take a holiday in Cuba.

The most popular routes into Cuba are therefore from Canadian and Mexican airports - which in iteself carries risks as the US government has immigration officials at the airports and you can also come a-cropper of them pesky passport stamps.

Land of the free, indeed :)


And my mom said not to call. That was strictly a one time thing.
She told me it was because Toht couldn't touch the sides m8 ;)
 

old.Tohtori

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More specifically in response to your post: you gave an example of a good law spreading.
That's an opinion though, and even still, it's an example of a LAW spreading in general. Not all laws and decicion makers are in the same opinion corner as you, otherwise this police in school law wouldn't exist.

As such, it's a perfectly good example of a law starting somewhere and spreading global.

It being a good law, basad law or sods law has no bearing on it.
 

soze

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Just checking - do you think they should get shit?

Anyway. Those pepper spraying campus police have been suspended, apparently. But you have campus police??!

What for? Are your intellectual organisations hotbeds of criminal activity that need an authoritarian presence in case unruly students step over some magical unacceptable behaviour line or something?

I mean, the "pepper spray protest" was, after all, a demonstration against campus police using batons against other students...
Campus police are sensible, they have thousands of students in what amounts to a place the size of a small town why should the burden of policing that fall on the local town?
 

Scouse

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Campus police are sensible, they have thousands of students in what amounts to a place the size of a small town why should the burden of policing that fall on the local town?
The idea of it is alien tbfh. Special university police? Leeds copes with 24,000* students (or something) and don't need special police.

Generally you'd expect students to be well-educated and going about their lives educating themselves (which, after all, is what University is for) - therefore you'd expect the crime rate to be exceptionally low. Certainly never saw a single on-campus ruck whilst I was at university. Crime and unruly behaviour was for the chavs who couldn't make it and went to the shitty pubs in town :)


*Edit: Apparently a student population of 200,000, but that certainly can't be just between the Uni and the Poly...
 

throdgrain

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Just cos it's alien to you, how is that relevant to people in another country :confused:
 

Raven

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I am not sure the original piece is about university though. Isn't it about primary schools?
 

Scouse

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Just cos it's alien to you, how is that relevant to people in another country :confused:
I knew that choice of word'd get picked up on. Alien it definitely is, the rest of the post explains why it's totally bemusing and frankly, unnecessary.

Also, and I think this is the most important point tbfh - Universities are supposed to promote unorthodoxy. It's a hugely important intellectual component and having campus police cannot in any way produce an environment where that atmosphere is encouraged.



Aaanyway, more relevant to the thread:

I am not sure the original piece is about university though. Isn't it about primary schools?
This.
 

soze

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I was not talking about cops in a single school but I think on a Campus where all the students have paid to attend it is fair to make the University pay for policing. Ohio State University 5,584 academic faculty, 21,693 non-academic staff and 63,217 students is a lot of people to police.
 

Raven

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Well, we have campus security in the UK. I don't see all that much difference between them and campus police. Obviously the campus police carry side arms but then so do the police and some members of the public (in some states)

Still...jaw dropping that they also have police at primary/lower schools. They must have given up on trying to parent them properly if they have had to resort to that.
 

old.Tohtori

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I don't think polcie in schools is necessarily bad, but arresting students for what the article said, ridicilous.

I know i wouldn't mind a couple of officers around if some kid went psycho with a gun.
 

Cerb

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Incase it wasn't clear earlier, I think that the police and the use of the police in the case in the original article was absurd.

But no I don't think a campus "police" or security is a bad idea.
 

Uncle Sick

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I dislike the oppressive French laws against the burka. As much as I dislike Islam and all the shit that goes with it the state has no place in legislating against it. You'll find a lot of muslim women who want to wear the burka - because they hold a religious belief that that's what god wants them to do.

Yes, it's batty as shit - but no more batty than christian beliefs, and you don't get the state legislating against them in such an overt way.

The French passed the law because, in general, the population hates muslims and they're prejudiced - racist, if you like - against muslims.



Are Americans about individual's freedom of religion or are they ready to support a ban on burkas through their law enforcement establishments? :)




I just wasn't trying very hard (not feeling that argumentative). How about this?:



In America, in direct contravention of your own constitution, you face a $250,000 fine and up to ten years in prison if you take a holiday in Cuba.

The most popular routes into Cuba are therefore from Canadian and Mexican airports - which in iteself carries risks as the US government has immigration officials at the airports and you can also come a-cropper of them pesky passport stamps.

Land of the free, indeed :)




She told me it was because Toht couldn't touch the sides m8 ;)
On the burka issues - tbh, in my opinion, 'oppression' aka a democratic state enacting laws to protect its own identity, is the only language muslims will understand. In my opinion.
Where are the protesting muslim hordes when Taliban terrorists cut a westerners head off in front of a camera? Or when kuffars get sixed because of a caricature depicting a bearded man?
Exactly. When in Rome... that goes for dressing up in bed sheets as well in my book. If you wanna rock a burka, do it in Burkistan or whatever third world country made it a rule to hide your
women. Try wearing a bikini in Kabul. No one gets upset about that kind of shit, though, because it's 'cultural'. We have a culture, too - the western culture. We should strive to protect it.

And you're right on the whole Cuba issue. It's crap and based on 50 years ago. I never claimed the US are perfect. The US are not Russia, though.


Toto, again, you were using a specific example. Yes, laws 'spread' good or bad. But you were using a specific example. That's why I replied to it.
 

Raven

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If a women wants to wear one, why shouldn't she?

Not all Muslims are complete mental cases and plenty do openly oppose terrorism or any kind of violence.

I think you have been watching too much Fox News.
 

old.Tohtori

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Toto, again, you were using a specific example. Yes, laws 'spread' good or bad. But you were using a specific example. That's why I replied to it.
And again, dun matter. The example is apt on what i was saying, YOU decided to get into spesifics about WHAT law i used as an example.

Your reply is hardly a reply btw, an insult would fit better.

Anyway, you feel laws should be mroe strict towards muslims and not equal to all, so there's no point in talking to you.
 

Uncle Sick

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If a women wants to wear one, why shouldn't she?

Not all Muslims are complete mental cases and plenty do openly oppose terrorism or any kind of violence.

I think you have been watching too much Fox News.
As a matter of fact, I don't watch Fox News. I still get my news online since I don't care for 15 minutes local news, 14 minutes sports coverage and 1 minute international politics.
American news are content to firmly fixate their views on Americas belly button.

Man, give me some solid links where masses of muslims counter protest their militant brethren. I remember the masses going ape shit after the 9/11 attacks.
I also remember the masses going berserk after the Mohamed caricatures with pogroms going on all over the muslim hemisphere.

I am quite sure there are a lot of muslims that condemn violence, I am sure there are tons who quietly disapprove. I know for a fact there are muslims who openly speak out against
the violence (who usually have to fear for their lives, of course). I'm not rabidly against muslims - I oppose all fanaticism. Religious or political.

But: do you honestly believe above mentioned muslims force (oh, encourage, sorry) their women to wear the burka? I don't f-ing think so. Do you really think they want to wear that shit?
It's the shariah crowd that does. And they don't like us kuffars. End of story, that's a fact.

I know it's en vogue in certain circles to 'understand' people like that... I don't see how we can uphold the rights of our women and turn a blind eye on the rights of oppressed muslim women who
live amongst us in our modern, enlightened western civilizations. Equal rights for everyone.

which leads me to:
Anyway, you feel laws should be mroe strict towards muslims and not equal to all, so there's no point in talking to you.
You're a bit special in the head, aren't you? It was a very specific example, weak-troll. Not a general call to go out and oppress muslims.
I can explain myself again for half an hour but you won't get it anyways. Sorry that you're all butt hurt etc.
 

old.Tohtori

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You're a bit special in the head, aren't you? It was a very specific example, weak-troll. Not a general call to go out and oppress muslims.
I can explain myself again for half an hour but you won't get it anyways. Sorry that you're all butt hurt etc.
You obviouly can't, since you need insults in each and every post to "make a point". Weak conversation skills, useless anti-muslim hatred(no the nisinuations aren't that clever) in your posts and all around twattish behaviour. Congratulations, you're really an american.

Your "hatred" ofa fanatism in the middle of a faatic rant against things you know f*ck all about is quite the tell tale sign.

In short; no, i'm not butthurt, i just think you're a massive judging dick.
 

Raven

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Man, give me some solid links where masses of muslims counter protest their militant brethren. I remember the masses going ape shit after the 9/11 attacks.
I don't really need to. I speak and work with several muslims daily and have done for some time, I went to school with even more. Just because they happen to be muslim does not mean that they want to blow my house up. They couldn't care less whether I was muslim or not, they are just normal, functioning human beings.
 

Uncle Sick

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I don't really need to. I speak and work with several muslims daily and have done for some time, I went to school with even more. Just because they happen to be muslim does not mean that they want to blow my house up. They couldn't care less whether I was muslim or not, they are just normal, functioning human beings.


Oh, man... I give up. I had planned on posting a few 'pictures say more than words', googled for 'angry muslim crowds' and came up with
tons of material, pictures of shariah law in action -

Oh, whoops, she must have done something really bad, am I right?

But it's not going to matter. The American military/industrial complex' sole interest is to eradicate the peaceful muslim peasantry and turn the
rest into Walmart shoppers, I get it. America is the devil and the mullah's have been right all along. I concede to the conceited.

Maybe I'll try one more time: I don't have anything against muslims as long as they do their thing without flying planes into tall buildings or
setting the occasional nun on fire because they didn't like a caricature that was actually planted as propaganda.

The same goes for any other religion.

I objected to the burka. The burka is a symbol of oppression. Try wearing one, maybe. They're designed to be portable cages.
I also object to wearing an armband with a swastika on it for the same reason. Or am I an asshole now because you know plenty
of skinheads who are nice guys and should be allowed to wear what they damn well please?


You obviouly can't, since you need insults in each and every post to "make a point". Weak conversation skills, useless anti-muslim hatred(no the nisinuations aren't that clever)
in your posts and all around twattish behaviour. Congratulations, you're really an american.

Your "hatred" ofa fanatism in the middle of a faatic rant against things you know f*ck all about is quite the tell tale sign.

In short; no, i'm not butthurt, i just think you're a massive judging dick.
Congratulations, I actually laughed. Your post was like the essence of nonsense.
Did you use a hammer to type that? How many keys did you break off?
Simmer down, will you?
 

Raven

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Maybe I should find some pictures of those nut job Americans that shout abuse at military funerals and say all Christians are like that.
 

Scouse

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Muslims / Christians:



Still - I don't think we should legislate against it. We should argue, ridicule and generally show them up to be the idiots they are. But not legislate.
 

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