Some ideas for albion rvr...

[[NP]ArlaHaren]

RvR Balance??

Extreme whine has poured in to the forum these last days, and _ALOT_ is about albs being not as effective in RvR as mids and hibs, this is my opinion, no whine. if u gonna reply plz reply ur own thought and dont flame me like: "Says a berzerker!" or "NP u cheating mfer"
it's old and boring imho...
So....

Let's say we need to make a rvr grp. the BEST fg, u and 7 friends want to play in THE best rvr grp possible.
There is no such grp. there is better, and worse. for different situations.

lets take Midgard first

A) Get a pachealer. Without it, the grp will probably only get mezzed and killed one by one with an unmezzed enemy grp. (this is probably the hardest char to be good but not very hard to be ok at)

B) Get a skald. For speed ofc.

C) get a Mendhealer. For if u dont, u can be sure u never survive a close fight, u wont get any heals, only the instas from pachealer. (which is kind of lame) +resistbuffs

D) Get shammy! for endregen and buffs. Preferably 1 with 27 cave magic so he has insta PBAE disease and AE root. + resistbuffs

E) now the options start to arrive, Tanks, SMs, RM, another mendhealer, shieldtank? overpowered zerkers? Savage? Thane? (no) Suppression SM etc etc etc...

With this u can make a pretty balanced gr with 4 requirements, u got 4 spots free too choose. and atm tanks is overpowered vs casters so imo u fill with 2 light tanks, 1 shieldtanks and 1 mendhealer extra.

Hib:

A) Get a bard. Same as pachealer and Skald, no mezz, no speed without him. Also endregen which is like _important_

B) get a druid. For buffs, root, healing, resistbuffs.

C) get a warden (this is not 100% necessary but id say in any good hibgrp there is a warden) u get some heals, always best pbt, and uber resistbuffs. Can also work as extra tank/interrupter.

D) now the options start to pour in again, make it a tankgrp, castergrp? combined? take another druid? another warden? a chanter? a menta? a wv? a? a? a?

1 chanter with baod is always nice, and 2 kind of better. altho most hib castergrps dont stand very long against mid melee if u dont get 2 wardens or 2 druids. (preferably druids)
Some shieldtank that can slam and guard, maybe 1 offensive tank, or another caster? maybe 2 offensive tank? lots of options.

And now the ALBS!

A) get a cleric! Heals, BOF, resistbuffs, specbuffs, and overall grp saver.

B) get a minstrel. mainly for speed but also Ablative song (which owns vs non assisting grps but is kinda useless vs good grps)
some singletarget mezzing, some stunning, some fighting, interrupting. a good minstrel does not play as as a tank like some does, they play support and help support. and take out support.

C) Get a Sorc! Mezz at boltrange is necessary if u gonna have a chance at winning CC war (VERY IMPORTANT´) This player MUST be good, or else the grp becomes bad. If the sorc doesnt lead, it's bad. if the sorc is afk, its bad, if the sorc has a bad comp/connection its bad. Make the most experienced player create this char. Also for mezz reduction, powregen, etc etc etc.

D) Get a Paladin. endregen, guard, slam. a good paladin gives a fuck in enemy support if he is no just interrupting, he stays close to his own and guard/slam attacking tanks.

E) now here is some options too... Maybe get a friar for offensive tank and resistbuffs, get some armsman for offensive, (not s/s), get a theurgh for pbt? get another cleric (YES) for more healpower and BOF 60 secs every 30 mins or 30 sec every 15 mins. imo, a Merc thrustspecc with an assisting Polearmsman either 50/50 or 42 shield or 2 mercz is the best option, skip the theurgh and get another cleric + friar.

The thing is, albion has most casters of all realms. and atm... Casters are NOT as good as tanks. Due to many different things, resistbuffs, determination, interrupt code etc etc. And if u change the merc to a wizard = gimped grp. if u change some1vs cabby = gimped grp. cuz with bof or not, the casters go down first. and that leaves u with 1 less meber of the grp.

u DONT invite another palydan to grp. (why for, he hits like a sissy, his chants are already used and he has no determination)
u DONT invite other characters that not is needed for ur grp.
Sure reavers is awesome when solo, but do they hit as hard as a merc or Polearmsman? i dont think so. (tell me if im wrong)
And all the Fire/ice wizards. when i see a casterheavy albgrp i think (oh free RPs). it is just to easy to take down castergrps with melee grps, it's not good, it is not balanced, it may not even be funny... But it IS the truth.

If u have read this far, good luck making ur grp better. and dont be afraid of exping new chars that are needed for guild/good rvr. it doesnt take so much time as u think.

 

[Noche]

Poor casters

Reavers hit quite hard with levi, but they got no Real Tank RAs afaik? (A levi can easily reach 500 with bad resist and 400 with ok resists afaik)

 

[[NP]ArlaHaren]

Ok. (knew there were something that made them too gimped for good grp rvr) and no tank RAs it was =)

 

[old.Sepiritz]

2 clerics would rock, except 80% of the cleric population are all AFK at the closest PK busy keeping up important buffs for infils.

 

[[NP]ArlaHaren]

yea, i can understand that. is Cleric so boring to play? i cant imagine that. and if u think cleric pop is low, go exp one urself?

 

[froler-mid]

and what about liddul saracen infils?!?!!?1+

 

[rg-zorena]

Playing a healer class isnt fun in zergs (talking from my own experience) and playing one in 1fg really make you worth something if you can keep all alive feels rewarding(fun).

 

[Soromaar2]

Nice post Zzang
keep it up

/salute

 

[Pandemic]

to sum up lots of waiting at mtk / atk / htk to get that well balanced grp

 

[[NP]ArlaHaren]

yes. lots of waiting, if u dint ahve a set grp ofc. but not many have that opportunity.
but to have a guild that has active players in all divisions helps _ALOT_ and not only solo Infils.

And Remi. try playing an important grp char like aussie did, i bet u would b good at it. (maybe respecc buffbot?) =P

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Noche
Poor casters

Reavers hit quite hard with levi, but they got no Real Tank RAs afaik? (A levi can easily reach 500 with bad resist and 400 with ok resists afaik)

Yup, 400-550 is typical against grouped chars (maxxed quick, 3.3spd weapon), 700+ isn't uncommon against soloers. And yes we don't have Determination or Prevent Flight, or cheap Purge/IP...

But Reavers are great in your melee group, increasing ALL your group's melee damage by 30-50% and can often perma-interrupt the enemy's entire support (without breaking CC ).



Anyway, you again make valid points, and assuming you want to always play the game to 'win', a lot of it should be listened to. But personally I play the game to relax and enjoy my time with friends and enjoy having (and do acceptably well in) mixed 'non-perfect' guild groups.

 

[[NP]ArlaHaren]

Originally posted by Pin
Yup, 400-550 is typical against grouped chars (maxxed quick, 3.3spd weapon), 700+ isn't uncommon against soloers. And yes we don't have Determination or Prevent Flight, or cheap Purge/IP...

But Reavers are great in your melee group, increasing ALL your group's melee damage by 30-50% and can often perma-interrupt the enemy's entire support (without breaking CC ).



Anyway, you again make valid points, and assuming you want to always play the game to 'win', a lot of it should be listened to. But personally I play the game to relax and enjoy my time with friends and enjoy having (and do acceptably well in) mixed 'non-perfect' guild groups.

yea i get u Pin, but the post was about the albs said that they dont stand a chance vs good mid/hibgrps (especially mid since OVERPOWER LA and end.)

ofc, play for fun. but imo fun is when u win. (bad loser)

 

[Gahldir]

Re: RvR Balance??

Originally posted by [NP]ArlaHaren
B) get a druid. For buffs, root, healing, resistbuffs.

1 chanter with baod is always nice, and 2 kind of better. altho most hib castergrps dont stand very long against mid melee if u dont get 2 wardens or 2 druids. (preferably druids)
Some shieldtank that can slam and guard, maybe 1 offensive tank, or another caster? maybe 2 offensive tank? lots of options.

it is just to easy to take down castergrps with melee grps, it's not good, it is not balanced, it may not even be funny... But it IS the truth.

If u have read this far, good luck making ur grp better. and dont be afraid of exping new chars that are needed for guild/good rvr. it doesnt take so much time as u think.

1st druid should imo be mainly specced for buffs and heals. this will make him able to concentrate what's the druids most important thing a druid has to do; heal. my suggestion is something like 40 nurt, 35 reg 9 na (Ola-specc imo).

2nd druid would be very nice to have. this one could have nature-specc to help bard with CC. he might be the incombat-rezzer and a good healer aswell. good pet for interupts and maybe get a dot of ^^. suggest for specc would be 36 nurt 40 reg. that means best rezz and 1st aoe root etc.

2 enchanters are sure nice. but remember the utility a mana-eld has. aoe str+con debuff and aoe(?)disease. if some light specc he can have nearsight(dunno resistrate on lowlvled spells tho). this along with PB (slow version atm tho).

Imo hibgroup should actually be casterheavy group. this since mids frontload > hib frontload and BoF + SoS used in a good way by a good albgroup = dead hib tank group. tho a group like this needs someone that slams/annihilates for the support/mages. Played with DH once and meet NP twice. 1st fight was over after like 10 sec or so (jumped them and PBed most of them to death before they had a chance to spread out) and the 2nd was a loooong fight where we got thier tanks down fast but had troubles with thier support, hehe

Imo, this is a good guide to all three realms that might help ppl out to better RvR. and don't make this a flamewar

 

[Soromaar2]

Fun can also be a damn good fight no1 won imo

 

[[NP]ArlaHaren]

Nice reply Gahldir, (haven't played Hib much so good to hear from some1 who know better)

And yes, DH sure was a pain in the ass. but when we fought em with our nightgrp i cant remind myself of loosing more then 1 or 2 times in 10-12 fights. But it was hard every time. fun fights.

 

[Vasconcelos]

So basically if u have a caster char go play SWG or PS, or just die from boredom xping another char.

Sad but the true reality of Dark Age of Tank a Lot atm.


Or better play ur char with ur friends for fun :great:

 

[Tilda]

Re: RvR Balance??

Originally posted by [NP]ArlaHaren

Sure reavers is awesome when solo, but do they hit as hard as a merc or Polearmsman? i dont think so. (tell me if im wrong)

your wrong.

 

[Gahldir]

Originally posted by Pin
Yup, 400-550 is typical against grouped chars (maxxed quick, 3.3spd weapon), 700+ isn't uncommon against soloers. And yes we don't have Determination or Prevent Flight, or cheap Purge/IP...

But Reavers are great in your melee group, increasing ALL your group's melee damage by 30-50% and can often perma-interrupt the enemy's entire support (without breaking CC ).



Anyway, you again make valid points, and assuming you want to always play the game to 'win', a lot of it should be listened to. But personally I play the game to relax and enjoy my time with friends and enjoy having (and do acceptably well in) mixed 'non-perfect' guild groups.

yupp, but ppl like you (dunno if you do it but...) shouldn't really whine if they do lose against a better setup group with some skills

 

[Gahldir]

Originally posted by [NP]ArlaHaren
Nice reply Gahldir, (haven't played Hib much so good to hear from some1 who know better)

And yes, DH sure was a pain in the ass. but when we fought em with our nightgrp i cant remind myself of loosing more then 1 or 2 times in 10-12 fights. But it was hard every time. fun fights.

hehe. they are only a small guild, like 8ish ppl. and bard is on holiday atm so...

anyway, ofc you pwned em when I wasn't playing with em!!

 

[Belomar]

Valid points, Zzang, but I gotta agree with Pin. SS groups are made based on three cornerstones: minstrel, cleric, and sorcerer, the rest of the group depends on whoever is online and wants to join. We usually do quite well this way, too, even with highly non-traditional group setups, but yes, if we would go for the "perfectly balanced" group only to win, it would look something like above.

However, I would like to add that I think it is a sad state of affairs that casters are so inferior to tanks as they are these days... The Eldritch TL said "unviable", and I would agree that this is indeed the case for all non-debuffing casters. Mythic really has to look over all this in future patches.

 

[Belomar]

Re: Re: RvR Balance??

Originally posted by Tilda
your wrong.

Muahaha, witness the wounded ego!

 

[[NP]ArlaHaren]

Re: Re: RvR Balance??

Originally posted by Tilda
your wrong.

Yea well i found out Reavers dont get Cheap RAs, prolly not PF either. So they are not as good as a tank with determ imo.

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by Gahldir
yupp, but ppl like you (dunno if you do it but...) shouldn't really whine if they do lose against a better setup group with some skills

Umm. First of all, I take this reply to mean that you only play to win and not to have fun and thus only aim to have perfectly balanced groups? And secondly, SS does not whine about losing against any groups, and we certainly hold our against most enemy FGs we come across. Yes, even your guild.

 

[[NP]ArlaHaren]

Originally posted by Belomar
However, I would like to add that I think it is a sad state of affairs that casters are so inferior to tanks as they are these days... The Eldritch TL said "unviable", and I would agree that this is indeed the case for all non-debuffing casters. Mythic really has to look over all this in future patches.

It is very sad indeed... They should look over interruptcodes, and nerf resistbuffs to 5,10,15%

 

[ghaladriel]

Re: RvR Balance??

Originally posted by [NP]ArlaHaren

And now the ALBS!

A) get a cleric! Heals, BOF, resistbuffs, specbuffs, and overall grp saver.

B) get a minstrel. mainly for speed but also Ablative song (which owns vs non assisting grps but is kinda useless vs good grps)
some singletarget mezzing, some stunning, some fighting, interrupting. a good minstrel does not play as as a tank like some does, they play support and help support. and take out support.

C) Get a Sorc! Mezz at boltrange is necessary if u gonna have a chance at winning CC war (VERY IMPORTANT´) This player MUST be good, or else the grp becomes bad. If the sorc doesnt lead, it's bad. if the sorc is afk, its bad, if the sorc has a bad comp/connection its bad. Make the most experienced player create this char. Also for mezz reduction, powregen, etc etc etc.

D) Get a Paladin. endregen, guard, slam. a good paladin gives a fuck in enemy support if he is no just interrupting, he stays close to his own and guard/slam attacking tanks.

E) now here is some options too... Maybe get a friar for offensive tank and resistbuffs, get some armsman for offensive, (not s/s), get a theurgh for pbt? get another cleric (YES) for more healpower and BOF 60 secs every 30 mins or 30 sec every 15 mins. imo, a Merc thrustspecc with an assisting Polearmsman either 50/50 or 42 shield or 2 mercz is the best option, skip the theurgh and get another cleric + friar.

[/B]

Nice if you gonna fight with a group with all members RR8+ ... how many of this are ? ... you and your group ...
I got another idea for albs :lol: change zone of RvR when see this group

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by [NP]ArlaHaren
yea i get u Pin, but the post was about the albs said that they dont stand a chance vs good mid/hibgrps (especially mid since OVERPOWER LA and end.)

ofc, play for fun. but imo fun is when u win. (bad loser)

Well, firstly it's not 'the albs said', it's 'some albs said'.


But more importantly, what you need to make the best groups in any realm is:

A) An egomaniac perfectionist that must win at all costs

B) An individual who is like-minded to A)

C) Best to have more of the above, as long as they can all get along with each other

D) The above should have taken the more vital group-roles, so fill the group with people who do what they are told, and at least know how to read chat, hit /assist, and help kill stuff


-------------

I prefer: Okay, we have speed and heals, who else wants to join? IMO it makes for a much happier atmosphere while enjoying time with friends.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Gahldir
yupp, but ppl like you (dunno if you do it but...) shouldn't really whine if they do lose against a better setup group with some skills

people like me? I'd like to think there aren't too many people like me

But I certainly don't whine if I lose, and the character you play does NOT determine your 'skills'. Anyway, my 'random' SS groups seem to do quite well vs. your 'skillful' IG groups

 

[Vasconcelos]

Originally posted by Pin
people like me? I'd like to think there aren't too many people like me

But I certainly don't whine if I lose, and the character you play does NOT determine your 'skills'. Anyway, my 'random' SS groups seem to do quite well vs. your 'skillful' IG groups

We rox0rz

kthx

 

[Tilda]

Originally posted by Gahldir
yupp, but ppl like you (dunno if you do it but...) shouldn't really whine if they do lose against a better setup group with some skills

link to where pin has whined please.

 

[Tilda]

Re: Re: Re: RvR Balance??

Originally posted by [NP]ArlaHaren
Yea well i found out Reavers dont get Cheap RAs, prolly not PF either. So they are not as good as a tank with determ imo.

mabey not, but if you play well you can avoid the initial aoe mes/stun whatever. and then u can save purge dot ST stuns/messes.
roots are mo problem because u can just DoT shout a grey con mob onto you.

Tilda