Reduce Magic Damage...

[willowywicca]

[17:18] <Spinesprout> Malevolencia I killed theurg on druid
[17:18] <Spinesprout> DRUID POWAH

aye, casters need a nerf! interupts don't pwn them at all!

 

[Rudor Dwarf]

Yes please nerf tanks they sure need that.
Male i respect you alot but that was the most stupid thing i ever heard from you .

I shall add that im happy with my zerker there is only one thing that bother me and that is that merc/bm take out my frenzy.
I know this is not a big deal as when it time to kill those fight is 99% of times allready won, but i still dont see why.

 

[willowywicca]

Yes please nerf tanks they sure need that.
Male i respect you alot but that was the most stupid thing i ever heard from you .

Play a caster, experience what it feels like having a banelord on you

I didn't really mean they need a nerf, was just counterpointing someone who said casters think they're fine and tanks only think they need a nerf.. was just saying casters think tanks need a nerf (or well, light tanks anyway).. personally overall I think the balance is pretty good atm.. neither really needs a nerf.. but if you lower caster dmg or something.. tanks will massively outperform them again..

 

[Maeloch]

Wot maleg said. There's already plenty of tools to supress/negate caster damage. Resist buffs, interrrupts, banelord shit, aoe spam, dex/qui debuff. Run with a banelord, resist buffs and BAoD/SB in grp and caster damage is looking pretty pathetic. Don't have any of that stuff and you will get nuked for 500+.

Ran into that reaver bomb grp last night, fully buffed I was nuking Voltage for as low as 100 (after I got out of the twf etc..). Thank fuck we had a BM in grp that could actually kill stuff.

Other thing, I get the impression lot of casters boosting damage v heavily with passives and running without MoC nowadays - stick a pet on a caster and he'll be stuck staff hitting stuff all fight.

Mael, 50th ment.

 

[Achilles]

Dont really think caster damage is OP.....but like Rudor (i think) all the brittle guards etc that you have to waste a hit on are anoying. Ive taken 5 swings at an SM before and not hit him once.....2 brittle gaurds and his pet took 3 blows in a row, dont know if thats normal, but just what ive experienced. Its generally balanced atm tho.

 

[Sycho]

Casters damage isn't overpowered in NF it was before though...you can get empty mind and some aom so whats it matter, if you are a bm/zerk/merc then charge 3 is mandatory.Any decent light tank's dps will not be far off a non debuff caster but if this person has banelord ml10 and charge 3, there should be no complaints about caster damage.

 

[Ilum]

The whole caster/tanks balance seems ok atm, but generally people tend to die too fast in RvR I think

Maybe rework the relic bonuses to do something else than imbalance RvR (usually infavour of the already strongest side)

 

[Aran Thule]

Give mages a cap of 250 on dex for cast speed.

Tanks and archers have 250 cap on quick for weapons and bows i dont see why mages should be differant.

 

[willowywicca]

Give mages a cap of 250 on dex for cast speed.

Tanks and archers have 250 cap on quick for weapons and bows i dont see why mages should be differant.

bow isn't capped at 250, only melee.. and it's probably because melee can choose between different weapon speeds.. casters can't.. give us a choice of cast speeds ranging from say 2.0 to 4.1 and sure, cap at 250 xP

 

[Aoln]

bow is capped at 250, and you get a choice of what speed spell you cast

 

[Foadon]

lol morons, how can u compare cast speed to swing speed
qui is capped at 250, but if u wanna cap that u get less dmg per swing, more overall but less per swing, cast speed dont matter if u cast at 0.000000001 sec or 4830383sec, still same dmg

ALL dmg should have been toned down, and with toa there was a possibility to make fights last longer, ofc mythic introduces style dmg melee dmg magic dmg etc etc
make stats have less effect on dmg output/heal output and it would all be much better, now its who is buffbotted and toaed up wins flawless
only RAs should give benefits to dmg and speed, but who cares, game fucked up enough already anyway, they rather make it look like oh i can wtfpwn if i do that pve and that pve, so lets do it = ching ching 2+ months extra paid

watch sig how redicilous game is :d 1k dmg i did at around 2sec and im not even a light tank

 

[Puppet]

[17:18] <Spinesprout> Malevolencia I killed theurg on druid
[17:18] <Spinesprout> DRUID POWAH

aye, casters need a nerf! interupts don't pwn them at all!

Never an interrupt on the theurg.. Theurg was

a) Too dumb to cast AF-shields; asking for a spanking
b) Sheared earlier on by me
c) Not quickcasting a root but quickcasting an air-pet (then ML9'ed it but 1 pet doesnt kill me before I kill him)

If you make so many errors while playing then u deserve to die :O

 

[Puppet]

Grappling takes the grappler out of the fight too, so it's a trade so to speak, one of our tanks for one of yours Thus it's balanaced.. (tho still stupid and should be gone like FZ)...

Puppet you can root a tank and he's out of the fight.. you can mezz a caster and he's even more out of the fight, since he is (99% of the time) interupted once his mezz is broken, while the tank can go about his business once CC breaks..

Thats funny reasoning; could say 'Once the CC is broken the tank is useless because the caster is on 1500 range'. ITs not true; neither is your statement

Personally I think tanks need a nerf, one banelord with charge 2 and I'm dead. Nothing I can do to fight back at all.. (could pop moc3, cept with 75% dmg, and banelord things like zou and demor the damage is *really* crap with it and you won't kill a tank that has any kind of support behind it.. and if they have 50% resists.. lol >< )

U dont want to nerf tank; u want to nerf banelord lighttanks - or better 1 tank in each realm. And for the record: I think charge is also overpowered; but remove that from the lighttank and what leaves em? The sole reason why charge is introduced is BECAUSE casters are overpowered. Crappy band-aid fix :/

 

[willowywicca]

Thats funny reasoning; could say 'Once the CC is broken the tank is useless because the caster is on 1500 range'. ITs not true; neither is your statement

Neither was your original statement, was just responding with similar styled arguments since you seem to like using them.

U dont want to nerf tank; u want to nerf banelord lighttanks - or better 1 tank in each realm. And for the record: I think charge is also overpowered; but remove that from the lighttank and what leaves em? The sole reason why charge is introduced is BECAUSE casters are overpowered. Crappy band-aid fix :/

by my count, 1 in each realm makes for 3, which is more than 1, thus is tanks not a tank.. and again that was just reply in kind, same as the original post it was directed at, and as I already said elsewhere, I am happy with current balance.. tanks eat me alive if they glance at me, I eat them alive if they don't notice me.. seems fair to me

 

[Puppet]

Neither was your original statement, was just responding with similar styled arguments since you seem to like using them.

Which one u referring to? The fact a tank rooted is useless for the duration of the root ?

by my count, 1 in each realm makes for 3, which is more than 1, thus is tanks not a tank.. and again that was just reply in kind

Well; the only tanks with Banelord+Charge are the Zerk/BM/Merc. You wanna nerf those; but hero doesnt have charge nor banelord, that one therfore cant do what u describe.

, same as the original post it was directed at, and as I already said elsewhere, I am happy with current balance.. tanks eat me alive if they glance at me, I eat them alive if they don't notice me.. seems fair to me

Tell me how a hero kills you; if you semi-awake (and u still got Bob) and he notices u hes the one eating grass. Nothing wrong with that; casters dominate at range. IMO its wrong if the BM charges; shakes off all CC and wtfpwns u.. But for the same reasoning when a hero is on you in mele-range your odds to win are still VERY high. The hero has to whack through, we be conservative, 2 brittles and a bubble. The hero whacks at cap-speed (1.5 sec) which is 0... 1.5 ....3.0.... 4.5 seconds BEFORE he lands his first hit.

Now there u got the problem; its not 'tanks' its 'some tanks'.. And most likely its also 'some casters' tho I dont know too many casters who cant dish out much damage nowadays. The ones who specced in something else except damage. Heroes cant spec for charge/banelord/insta kill 2 brittles etc.

 

[Equendil]

U dont want to nerf tank; u want to nerf banelord lighttanks - or better 1 tank in each realm. And for the record: I think charge is also overpowered; but remove that from the lighttank and what leaves em? The sole reason why charge is introduced is BECAUSE casters are overpowered. Crappy band-aid fix :/

But the reason casters are overpowered is because melee overpower them otherwise. When you have a combat system with interrupts that prevent you from casting in melee range, you end up with DAoC and people getting killed a just a couple seconds. Reducing all damage, melee and caster alike, wouldn't work, because then casters would spend the entire day running away from melee, benny hill style, as in the old days. If casters can't kill fast at range, they are useless as damage dealers.

The *only* way Mythic can truly 'fix' their combat system is by reworking the broken concept that is interrupts.

 

[willowywicca]

Tell me how a hero kills you; if you semi-awake (and u still got Bob) and he notices u hes the one eating grass. Nothing wrong with that; casters dominate at range. IMO its wrong if the BM charges; shakes off all CC and wtfpwns u.. But for the same reasoning when a hero is on you in mele-range your odds to win are still VERY high. The hero has to whack through, we be conservative, 2 brittles and a bubble. The hero whacks at cap-speed (1.5 sec) which is 0... 1.5 ....3.0.... 4.5 seconds BEFORE he lands his first hit.

Now there u got the problem; its not 'tanks' its 'some tanks'.. And most likely its also 'some casters' tho I dont know too many casters who cant dish out much damage nowadays. The ones who specced in something else except damage. Heroes cant spec for charge/banelord/insta kill 2 brittles etc.

Well, for a hero, I'd suggest he uses a GS charge to interupt me the instant he sees me, also killing off all my brittles followed by sprinting right for me. Then uses a 2.0 spd weapon (to guarantee cap speed) to pop my bt before slamming and LWing me.. I can ofc qc root on him, but after I attack him again following that he can interupt me in various ways (eg shoot shortbow at me til I get out of range of that, throw weapon, possibly gs charge again) and ofc could purge (but RA discussions go back and forth so are rather pointless).

I'm not really sure what you're talking about that, I was referring more to fg fights than 1 on 1s.. as in I can kill tanks in a fg if they don't notice me and their healers are interupted by my group.. and similarily they can kill me if they see me and attack me.

 

[remi]

mmmm...banelord is fubar

 

[Barlennan]

one banelord with charge 2 and I'm dead

For that statement to be true, we'd have to remove Pbuck from the game :<

 

[Saggy]

The *only* way Mythic can truly 'fix' their combat system is by reworking the broken concept that is interrupts.

Yes, and this is the only problem casters have ever had - damage has always been fine or overpowered Also note that it has been the casting classes gimping themselves with overpowered spells - With SoS up Ice-Wizzie group had absolutely no problems in killing savage groups after ASD-fix Oo

If I'm not mistaken you can't debuff resist belove 0% and only the resist gained from items (26%), buffs (24%) and racial bonuses (5%) are debuffable - 50% debuff and 5% resist piercing is enough for that so there would only be resists from RAs left (Never bothered testing this so I might be wrong ). Never had problems in damage dealing with only 30% debuff on my Cabby (no ToA bonuses apart from dex/acu caps) Oo

With the current MAs and RAs I find it impossible to connect words "RvR" and "balanced" though

 

[Shike]

tbh puppet.. casters arent doing much damage on a solid group with some resists, and with AoM/EM/BAoD their damage is nill nearly.

Sure, light tanks is a good way of dealing with them, and heavy tanks suffer abit from how things are, but, all realms have the possibility to have a light tank lead way and MA in fights, and use MLs to tone down casters damages. If someone doesnt have proper resists, uh, so what? They die, why oh why didnt they have proper resists... Casters vs Tanks balance is fine, if some shitty stealther runs around with shitresists aka no group, so? Who cares, except stealthers? Who are very unbalanced as is anyhow in their own ways. A dead stealther is a good stealther in my book since they add absolutely nothing to DAoC but chaos and they tend to ruin alot for others that choose to group up. Its really only stealthers that take heavy damage from casters which serves them right tbh. Ordinary groups should use the head and use correct tools from realm and counter the enemy in a proper way. All realms can do this tbh. Not just one and that my friend, is balance.

There are some things that are unbalanced, but not this really. TWF, SW, Water, Keeps, Stacking ST's, Animists, Warlocks, Banshees etc.. list can be made pretty long. Those are things I worry about. And, I play a tank, in a tankbased group and we are doing just fine, and have fun, even vs shitloads of casters

Now, its bedtime! /rant off

 

[Barlennan]

Also about relics, isnt that the whole idea behind keep taking anyway. Is it really worth for those 50~ people attacking a keep just for the rps they get during it?

 

[Wou]

Mage and light tank damage IS to high when they are buffed, TOAed, and high RR.

But for me as druid, mage damage is far more worse then melee damage. Suddenly unexpected somebody is nuked to hell. While if that same person would be attacked by a light tank, you could see him comming, and be prepaired to heal that person / defend him with bg, root, mezz, fz,..

While high damage classes got a lot bonuses from TOA, clerics, druids and healers didn't.
Casters got: 10% range, 10% resist pirce, 10% magic damage, 10% cast speed, ##% power pool,
and melee 10% melee damage, 10% style damage, 10% swing speed.
Healers got 25% healbonus, 10% cast speed, 10% range, ##% power pool.
Looks even to you? However, to deal damage: somebody must be at range/ melee range, to heal somebody: he has to be wounded. TOA gived a lot extra damage output, but no real damage reduction.

If a caster nukes somebody to dead in 5.5 sec (5 X 400 damage at 1.1 sec nukes), a healer has only 3 sec time to react. So 1 interrupt would be fatal. It get even worse when there are 2 or more casters assisting, becouse it is allready hard to outheal 1 caster.

To illustrate it: once at bled bridge we fighted a fg random albs. One of our group was nuked by a sorc, but he couldn't see where the sorc was. That sorc used at least 1 mana bar on him, but costed both druids 1.5 mana bars, and at least 3 insta's ( and the target had at least 45 - 50% body resists). And that was after we killed both clerics so he had lost his bases or even spec's.


So for me a 50% damage reduce to everybody looks the best option. That way I can blink with my eye without fearing to see somebody dieing in 2 sec.
Don't say that would make casters useless. Because With my sorc on alb/excal I soloed: a hero after he slammed me, a rr7 sb with end regen buff, lots of other people. I did that by using cc and kiting, not by slamming 1 nuke button like all kiddy's on the sorc forum wanted ( and got).

[17:18] [17:18] <Spinesprout> Malevolencia I killed theurg on druid
[17:18] <Spinesprout> DRUID POWAH

Every class can kill every class if the enemy play's stupid. I once NUKED a sorc to dead with my nature druid, in a 1 vs 1, and my DOT does only 80 - 90 damage ( my pet was mezzed). Or putted my ML9 shark on bubble when he /disembarked out of a boat, and when he was on shore looking at the shark thinking wtf, nuking him to dead

 

[Tristessa]

Anyone think that not all players in both RvR or PvE are hardcore-gamers that have uber dmg outputs because they dont have artifacts, ToA gear, BBs etc etc? Sure some players nuke/hit for insane damage but saying that you should nerf an entire class just because you've had bad experience from a few specific players (either high RR, opted suits, MLs, artifacts, BBs or even all of these together), sorry to say this but seems pretty selfish. It's like saying *Nerf everyone around the globe playing *insert class* just because *insert name* 2-shotted me. And sure balance is always important, just make sure you talk about nerfing for exactly that, not out of spite.... Phew, done. Flame now if you wish

 

[scarloc]

I think that damage, as a whole, is too much. If you get a fight hitting 5 mins then it must've been amazing - even zerg vs zerg is over in a few seconds to a minute.

Since the fighting itself is the bit that I (and im pretty sure everyone else) finds most enjoyable, it should be prolonged a bit more :> Agree about the relics aswell, they're too imbalancing.

 

[Shike]

I think that damage, as a whole, is too much. If you get a fight hitting 5 mins then it must've been amazing - even zerg vs zerg is over in a few seconds to a minute.

Since the fighting itself is the bit that I (and im pretty sure everyone else) finds most enjoyable, it should be prolonged a bit more :> Agree about the relics aswell, they're too imbalancing.

thats another issue than tank><casterbalance and I agree fully, it is fun if fights actually last and damages went through the roof totally lately. And relics are imbalancing yep yep. Both for tanks and for casters. I'd rather see if relics could have more impact on goldicome, gained exp, reduced housingrents and stuff like that, that has no _major_ impact on a realms general performance.

 

[Tizu]

I've been reading what people have said. "Casters have weak armor and low hp".... Sorry but whats the big deal about that? you should have, Sorc for example. Bolt range mezz...hmmm no Bard/Healer/Darkness Spec SM has a chance in mezzing them. So everyones mezzed, Now debuffed nuked once I target who is nuking me and Insta DD. I then follow to target and use mini pbae insta to interupt he/she again.( No MoC by caster being used)

Guess what? the caster runs so you hit .... miss BT.... you try slam you slam... purged.... they sprint ABIT infront of you /face nuke nuke there hp is full yours ta 35% .... they QC another nuke your at 10%... your moving slowly they finsh you off there back at full hp.

Most tanks dont even get the chance to get to casters due to stupid ranges on sorc mezz. Tanks just die before getting near them.

Thing Im so confused about is why have Mythic gave a Caster AE mezz (longer than a seers), Pox, speed, charm pets, Life drain spell.

Yes its on a casting timer. So? thats not making any difference when ToA'd/Fully buffed. I watched a Sorc nuke me while having hunter pet on it plus after ive used dd to interupt (again no MoC).

Mythic need to sort this game out fast or they will lose every customer by 2007.

 

[atos]

Banshee gets magic shielding.. like a magic ablabtive. (once again a thane idea moved to another class)

I myself will enjoy my 250delve lifetaps on my warlock. =(

Nerf castspeeds to 1.5sec is a good start but keep the damage the same. I don't have any problem with brittle guards as I only have to press my insta pbaoe. =)

 

[Zebolt]

If a caster nukes somebody to dead in 5.5 sec (5 X 400 damage at 1.1 sec nukes), a healer has only 3 sec time to react. So 1 interrupt would be fatal. It get even worse when there are 2 or more casters assisting, becouse it is allready hard to outheal 1 caster.

Tell me how I am gonna kill someone if I can't do it fast? If healers gets 10 secs to react I could might aswell staff my targets. I can get interupted just as much as the healers. I are much much more vulnerable and I have no form of insta or pet to interupt my target with. So I ask again.. How am I going to kill anyone if I can't do it fast?

To illustrate it: once at bled bridge we fighted a fg random albs. One of our group was nuked by a sorc, but he couldn't see where the sorc was. That sorc used at least 1 mana bar on him, but costed both druids 1.5 mana bars, and at least 3 insta's ( and the target had at least 45 - 50% body resists). And that was after we killed both clerics so he had lost his bases or even spec's.

Tell your friend about the last attacker and the face command xD

 

[Puppet]

Tell me how I am gonna kill someone if I can't do it fast? If healers gets 10 secs to react I could might aswell staff my targets. I can get interupted just as much as the healers. I are much much more vulnerable and I have no form of insta or pet to interupt my target with. So I ask again.. How am I going to kill anyone if I can't do it fast?

There's a difference between 'fast' and 'too' fast.

Its an old thing; casters will not turn in, neither will tanks.

But how many nukes does it take u to drop the 'average' Alb without a friar in the group? 3-4 nukes? From capped range he aint even on you yet and you still got quickcast, a set of brittles, perhaps MOC etc.

It might be my deluded brain from a healer PoV but I think battles are over too quick nowadays. Casters do like 'a PA' every 1.2~ seconds on range. I put alot of efford on my chars; 2200 hp on a druid - capped resists etc and I still die to a caster in 4 seconds. 4 seconds - the typical lag on the servers atm is higher xD