News Paris Attack

[TdC]

I know what you're saying, but if they can genuinely label a building, ISIS main HQ, why the fuck would it still be standing. Surely your bird watches a bunch of nicer cars turn up and the call is made to level it when more bodies have gone in than come out?

Hence me asking for the source. Was it the pentagon, or the Daily Mail?

afaicfo the image is attributed to an organisation called 'raqqa-sl'.

 

[Gwadien]

I know what you're saying, but if they can genuinely label a building, ISIS main HQ, why the fuck would it still be standing. Surely your bird watches a bunch of nicer cars turn up and the call is made to level it when more bodies have gone in than come out?

Hence me asking for the source. Was it the pentagon, or the Daily Mail?

Possibly because its a headquarters building, probably has a lot of people in there that work there/forced to work there, or what ever.

 

[Gwadien]

Probably a bit soon, but someone made a funny on my facebook, it isn't directly related anyway.

Spoiler

Some Sikh guy on my facebook is abroad, (Like, proper Sikh, Turban & Beard) he just did the tri-colour facebook profile thing and someone replied with 'That won't get you on the plane any easier.'

 

[Gumbo]

That's funny how?

 

[Tom]

I think it's funny because it highlights how fucking stupid the person who made the original comment is (not Gwadian).

 

[Embattle]

Emblar, the terrorist attacks are the counter-balance. The drone strikes were already happening, among other things. Regarding location, it's -with all respect to the casualties- unfortunately irrelevant. The attacks could have occurred anywhere.

In the IS case Terrorist attacks happen whether you are involved or not since the beliefs they have regarding others. It wasn't a location argument it was the intended target which in this case are combatant vs a whole load of non combatants not that the Jihadi John drone kill matters since it was already well into the planning stage any way so at most I reckon it either would of happened any way or perhaps a week later but we'll never know for sure. It won't stop as the announcement of an airstrike killing the head of the Libyan IS proves but we can expect some more attacks as well.

Never done facebollocks and never will.

 

[Raven]

what I fail to understand is why some think that mass extermination of people with a faith belief is any better than the extreme faith view point? You would be killing in the name of
religion yourselves ;/. Additionally why are some so naive as to think this would stop humans killing each other?? Humans generally are vile disgusting parasites some not to the same depth and depravity as others but we are just parasites.... Just look at our history... Yes some societies have evolved but still within those societies really rotten humans still exist.. All we can do is as individuals is live each day as well as we can and hope that something kind we do encourages kindness in others....

Peaceful Muslims, fine, carry on.

Killing people who want to kill me..absolutely no problem with that at all. Drone strike those stone age thinking throwbacks all you like.

 

[Job]

You're a fucking retard.
Stop with your idiotic, vitriolic, tabloid filled, rhetoric.

I know plenty of Muslims who do not share this view at all. And are horrified by what is being perpetrated in the name of their faith.

The people doing these things are NOT Muslims... they are psychopaths using "Islam" as an excuse to be vile humans.

No true Muslim would harm another person, just like no true Christian would harm another person. Its a core tenet of both faiths. Anything else you have been told is press-bullshit. Stop drinking it up like a fucking sheep you nob.

Christians condone the massacre of muslims on a daily basis because we have dehumanised them...muslims have done the same about us.
Your argument lacks any insight beyond your own feelings...the cold hard truth surrounds us.

 

[Job]

It does piss me off when people on here repeat my comments and then claim I would dismiss them , I frickin said it first.

 

[Raven]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dGPo9XBIPA

1940

 

[Gwadien]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dGPo9XBIPA

1940

I was going to post that but it's kind of relevant but also irrelevant

 

[old.user4556]

what I fail to understand is why some think that mass extermination of people with a faith belief is any better than the extreme faith view point? You would be killing in the name of religion yourselves ;/. Additionally why are some so naive as to think this would stop humans killing each other??

A few things:

- I was using flippant emotional hyperbole (as illustrated by my Aliens reference) when I said i'd like to rid the world of religion
- the Quran (and indeed the Bible) does incite hatred, violence, murder, rape and killing which is evidently taken very literally on a daily basis - it's fundamental to Islam
- humans will continue to kill each other, but that doesn't change the fact that religion is an abhorrent thing

So? Of course a few will come through hidden in plain sight. One would be naive to think otherwise and one would be equally naive to mean anything by quoting such a given. Just like saying "pedophiles use public transport" or "murderers own cars". Big whoop tbh.

I'm not supporting the "it's immigrants" viewpoint, but I think it's relevant to the overall political stance - it will get very, very ugly across the EU.

It's not religion

Oh but it so is.

Except it's not. Make no mistake, belief systems are not the root cause of what is going on.

As above re the Quran. I could quote many, many, many examples from the Quran if you'd like.

Why are you such an apologist for religion? It's disgusting, it's impossible to defend it regardless of Islamic extremism.

 

[Gwadien]

It's a battle of ideology, ideology which is firmly placed in both socialites; the west on liberalism and science whilst the middle east is caught up in traditionalisms and religion.

I agree with you @Big G religion is the core fault here, but the vast majority of people still do follow their religion peacefully.

We can't battle to remove religion from Earth - Unless you have some genius plan which no-one has ever thought of.

 

[TdC]

As above re the Quran. I could quote many, many, many examples from the Quran if you'd like.

Why are you such an apologist for religion? It's disgusting, it's impossible to defend it regardless of Islamic extremism.

Don't mistake my meaning. I personally find most if not all of the major religions as bad as each other at being used to justify (violent) idiocy.

What I said in my post is that the violence of yesterday has absolutely fuck all to do with Islam.. The entirety of the Arab Spring is in fact a civil revolt with no religious motivation at all. Unfortunately what is actually going on, besides the Western concept that forcing change being good, is a whole load of under the cover shit from the US, Russia, China, et all fucking around with the currently unstable countries for various reasons, not to mention the internal civil unrest, existing governments violently resisting their populous, et cetera.

There's a really awesome article by a Dutch anti-terrorism expert named Peter Knoope. Sadly it's in Dutch or I'd link it. Anyway, the gist of it -and Gwad touches on it in his post above with his remark about ideology- is that Western society is strongly focused on the future, whereas Islamic society is built on traditionalism, rituals and religion and thus by it's nature is focused on it's history, ergo the past. Western modernism is very much inclined to reject the historical vision says Knoope, ergo a fundamental schism exists between our cultures. I'll stop trying to paraphrase the guy now. It's late, I need sleep. Anyway, here's the thing: the fundamental schism causes friction. The friction brings the West trying to force what we call progress and modern values on traditional peoples. Most of the time a lot of these values fail to root down. This brings resistance which brings punishment, misunderstanding thereof and ultimately resistance with violence, terrorism, everything that comes with it. Religion is often used as a justifying quantity, but it could have well been the fact that they hate gingers or that we dislike the fact they generally get more sun than we do.

 

[Moriath]

Religion has killed more people than i like to think about. I find it hard to not take my mums church going and rip it to the core that it has caused over the last two mellenium

 

[Embattle]

People have killed more people than anything else, the alleged reason just changes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34820093

 

[russell]

Glad to see the stories of good coming out. Gives me hope in humanity. Why are human beings so vile to each other?

 

[Talivar]

Its all about Power and fear of consequences, just look at what happens when the police withdraw from an area even in so called "civilized" cities and places like London or LA. Riots and Violence happen and people that yesterday walked into a shop said hello and paid for items are now stealing and destroying. Sadly most people are nice and civil because they have to be due to laws and rules, take away these and people will resort to their base emotions.

 

[Talivar]

Thats also why Religion can be dangerous because these people have been convinced that all the rules and police are now the enemy and the only true master is a Being they will never see or talk to. Leaving all instructions on how to live their lifes in the hands of the heads of these Terrorist Groups.

 

[Job]

Last week the US blew up a hospital, killing the doctors, patients and staff, OK it was an 'accident', but I didn't see a worldwide tide of sympathy...no facebook flags or commitments to justice and harmony.
Of course not, because..and I will use the word in it's true meaning...we are racist towards muslims, their lives are less important to us and the outpouring of grief for Paris in the western world is because we connect culturally with the victims.
Dehumanising people is the first step towards eradicating them and I fear muslims are on the second step.

 

[Talivar]

People are always Bias towards their own "Side" or the "Winners". We only have to look to WW2 to see how Hitler and the Germans are regarded as the evil ones and hardly anyone at all mentions the Russians or how concentration camps where invented by the British. How the Romans are Glorified and Alexander the Great is seen as Great. The Americans fought for their independence and won and are true heroes yet some of the Irish tried and failed and are evil Terrorists. One of the most evil empires the world has seen was the British Empire and we caused a lot of hate and pain around the world, yet i dont recall being educated much about any of that stuff at School. The Holy and Good Christians went on Holy Crusades in the past and massacred the evil Arabs yet that is often overlooked and dismissed as just History. Sadly not every culture forgets and rewrites things as well as we do and now we paying the price for mistakes of the past and a lot of rewritten history.

 

[Embattle]

Last week the US blew up a hospital, killing the doctors, patients and staff, OK it was an 'accident', but I didn't see a worldwide tide of sympathy...no facebook flags or commitments to justice and harmony.
Of course not, because..and I will use the word in it's true meaning...we are racist towards muslims, their lives are less important to us and the outpouring of grief for Paris in the western world is because we connect culturally with the victims.
Dehumanising people is the first step towards eradicating them and I fear muslims are on the second step.

Don't be stupid, most people are less important to a person than themselves and then that importance moves out but beyond a certain extent such as family and friends it starts to drop massively.

People are always Bias towards their own "Side" or the "Winners". We only have to look to WW2 to see how Hitler and the Germans are regarded as the evil ones and hardly anyone at all mentions the Russians or how concentration camps where invented by the British. How the Romans are Glorified and Alexander the Great is seen as Great. The Americans fought for their independence and won and are true heroes yet some of the Irish tried and failed and are evil Terrorists. One of the most evil empires the world has seen was the British Empire and we caused a lot of hate and pain around the world, yet i dont recall being educated much about any of that stuff at School. The Holy and Good Christians went on Holy Crusades in the past and massacred the evil Arabs yet that is often overlooked and dismissed as just History. Sadly not every culture forgets and rewrites things as well as we do and now we paying the price for mistakes of the past and a lot of rewritten history.

You are no different trying to rewrite it to suit your own views and beliefs.

 

[Talivar]

What have i rewritten? or said that is incorrect and what are my views and beliefs?

 

[Gwadien]

Last week the US blew up a hospital, killing the doctors, patients and staff, OK it was an 'accident', but I didn't see a worldwide tide of sympathy...no facebook flags or commitments to justice and harmony.
Of course not, because..and I will use the word in it's true meaning...we are racist towards muslims, their lives are less important to us and the outpouring of grief for Paris in the western world is because we connect culturally with the victims.
Dehumanising people is the first step towards eradicating them and I fear muslims are on the second step.

So you accept what's going on and instead of seeing it as unjust and wrong that We're doing this to other human beings you're accepting it? Hell, you're embracing it.

Most right wing people I have encountered are usually blissfully aware that we do the same damage to them, so thus go with the general view that we need to wipe them out.

 

[Yoni]

So you accept what's going on and instead of seeing it as unjust and wrong that We're doing this to other human beings you're accepting it? Hell, you're embracing it.

Most right wing people I have encountered are usually blissfully aware that we do the same damage to them, so thus go with the general view that we need to wipe them out.

Are you sure you mean right wing? Or right wing extremists?

 

[old.user4556]

We can't battle to remove religion from Earth - Unless you have some genius plan which no-one has ever thought of.

I've thought about it long and hard - if I had an answer, i'd be a millionaire.

Islamic extremism aside, you need to break the repetition of brainwashing and indoctrination of each successive generation. I went to a Catholic school for a couple of years - it will come as no surprise that my schoolmates were Catholics because their Catholic parents brought them up to believe a pack of bigoted lies as truth. As they've grown up, become better educated and that evolutionary science has become more mainstream, they've abandoned their beliefs, married atheists and chosen not to bring their children up as religious. In the west, religion is in decline but it'll take a very long time to die out completely (if it ever does).

 

[Embattle]

The slant you put on how you view historical events, for example the Hitler and the Nazi's were evil and most do recognize that Stalin was a complete psychopath which includes the Russians but he was a necessary evil to beat the Nazi's and it shouldn't be forgotten the Russians essentially bleed Germany dry. The Romans did a lot to improve society but that goes hand in hand with accepting the destruction they bought at the same time against their enemies etc, Alexander isn't really seen as great at anything apart from generally military conquests. The British Empire did good and did bad which in reality is about the best an empire will ever do, it somehow seems to lend to the notion that until the BE everything was great and everything after it is terrible and it is to blame which quite frankly is utter rubbish although again it suits certain leaders/people to carry on blaming it for the worlds problems rather than dealing with the issue themselves.

History is written by many people at many different times with many different views on events, then people reading them will normally have a bias which taints it even more. To me there is no such thing as absolute accuracy when dealing with historical events, in fact not even near it. This is part of the reason I've never cared for those that use documents/history as a source of why people do the evil things they do, I don't need to look to anything written to know that going to cafes, stadiums, etc and shooting people is wrong and those that do are just evil and clearly mental and thus the world would be better without them.

 

[Talivar]

No one is arguing that these people and events are wrong tho and need to be stopped. What some are trying to do is put it into context that's all and offer a background to what has led to these events. If we do not do this then we risk causing even more and possible worse problems down the line.

 

[Gwadien]

I've thought about it long and hard - if I had an answer, i'd be a millionaire.

Islamic extremism aside, you need to break the repetition of brainwashing and indoctrination of each successive generation. I went to a Catholic school for a couple of years - it will come as no surprise that my schoolmates were Catholics because their Catholic parents brought them up to believe a pack of bigoted lies as truth. As they've grown up, become better educated and that evolutionary science has become more mainstream, they've abandoned their beliefs, married atheists and chosen not to bring their children up as religious. In the west, religion is in decline but it'll take a very long time to die out completely (if it ever does).

I agree, if you want to use your analogy on a wider scale, then you could, really.

Western influence over the middle east will bring stability to their lives, the issue is that there's groups out there that are sceptical and resistant to this idea.

They're extremely good at using the common factor to try and reunite the idea of being Muslim, in order to gain support for this popular belief.

As a side note, I'm doing WW2 in one of my modules at Uni, and it's fascinating to see that the British were fighting for this idealistic view of being British - country life, farming etc, when in reality Britain was in severe poverty and was generally absolutely in the shite. BUT it would be better than living under Hitler wouldn't it?! - Doubt it.

If you begin to accept perhaps that we fought WW2 not for ourselves but for the ideology of what we live in, then you may see the argument that I'm trying to put across here.

It's better to live in a Islamic society - regardless of how 'extreme' it may be, to live under a Western influenced society, where they'll ruin everything that your forefathers have fought so hard for.

It's an extremely difficult battle, and I really think that we're making it a great deal harder for ourselves, as @TdC correctly said, I was reading an article the other day about the Wests tactics against IS, and it's good, - remove the middle men, remove the people that fire up the locals against the West, don't take the head off the snake yet, otherwise you'll have the masses screaming 'omg, he said that this will happen, and it did, we must bomb Europe!'

BUT

I don't like the way we're going about it, I'd prefer the idea of using our training and our superior combat experience to send in teams to carefully and methodically remove targets, but not bomb Jihadi John and kill 100+ civvies in the process, sure you've got rid of one guy that wasn't really important, but was a media tool, but you've also potentially just radicalised 100+ civvies families.

History is written by many people at many different times with many different views on events, then people reading them will normally have a bias which taints it even more. To me there is no such thing as absolute accuracy when dealing with historical events, in fact not even near it. This is part of the reason I've never cared for those that use documents/history as a source of why people do the evil things they do, I don't need to look to anything written to know that going to cafes, stadiums, etc and shooting people is wrong and those that do are just evil and clearly mental and thus the world would be better without them.

But can't you also see that an established and respected Government bombing a hospital and going 'oops, hehe' is also probably in the same category as this?

To go in hand with the argument I put above, the fact that we value our immediate neighbours lives more than our own is another reason why this process is going to be long and arduous - They see that, they know that, and it pisses the shit out of them.

 

[Gumbo]

Did 100 Civilians die in the strike that killed Emwazi? And where did that photo come from?