News Paris Attack

[Gwadien]

Did 100 Civilians die in the strike that killed Emwazi? And where did that photo come from?

I made the number up, check the Guardian link to where I got estimations from.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34805924

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/24/-sp-us-drone-strikes-kill-1147

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jihadi-john-drone-strike-victims_564611fae4b060377348bd8e

My point remains; so long as we're so happy to accept collateral damage, and we get super pissed off when we're attacked, the normal people in these countries will start to get annoyed.

 

[TdC]

And where did that photo come from?

afaicfo the image is attributed to an organisation called 'raqqa-sl'.

google the organisation I mentioned. apparently they're the source of the image. note: I have no idea who they are or what they do, just that they are mentioned as the source of the image.

 

[Gumbo]

I made the number up, check the Guardian link to where I got estimations from.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34805924

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/24/-sp-us-drone-strikes-kill-1147

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jihadi-john-drone-strike-victims_564611fae4b060377348bd8e

My point remains; so long as we're so happy to accept collateral damage, and we get super pissed off when we're attacked, the normal people in these countries will start to get annoyed.

You need a new calculator, yours is broken I make it just short of 28. And if you're connecting collateral damage with a specific strike with nothing to back it up you need to be more accurate.

I'm glad he died, collateral damage is unfortunate, but inevitable. How many military targets did IS take out when they collaterally damaged 130 civilians the other night?

 

[Talivar]

Fact you just said ah well unfortunate but inevitable to any amount of innocents dieing makes your whole argument void

 

[Gwadien]

You need a new calculator, yours is broken I make it just short of 28. And if you're connecting collateral damage with a specific strike with nothing to back it up you need to be more accurate.

I'm glad he died, collateral damage is unfortunate, but inevitable. How many military targets did IS take out when they collaterally damaged 130 civilians the other night?

War hasn't been about armies fighting armies for 100 years.

The Germans bombing London was terrible, but the bombing of Dresden was meh.

 

[Gumbo]

Fact you just said ah well unfortunate but inevitable to any amount of innocents dieing makes your whole argument void

You're so naive, it's sweet.

 

[Talivar]

Im not naive at all, i fully accept the loss of innocent lifes, what i cannot accept is how people seem to pick and choose which innocent lifes are worth grieving over. Its hypocrisy and thats what annoys me

 

[Gwadien]

You're so naive, it's sweet.

I think it's far more naive to paint IS as a group of people which have no other reason to do what they're doing other than their sky gods, it's like saying the Palestinians are all turning to fundamentalism because they're cunts, and they're dumb, rather than taking into other reasons for their behaviour.

 

[Gumbo]

Um, I don't think I've mentioned religion if that's aimed at me, the quoting would suggest it is?

 

[Embattle]

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2015/11/blame-islam-151115083644785.html

 

[throdgrain]

Im not naive at all, i fully accept the loss of innocent lifes, what i cannot accept is how people seem to pick and choose which innocent lifes are worth grieving over. Its hypocrisy and thats what annoys me

That's an easy answer. OUR innocent lives are a disaster, THIER innocent lives are acceptable. Get over it.

 

[Gwadien]

That's an easy answer. OUR innocent lives are a disaster, THIER innocent lives are acceptable. Get over it.

This is why they bomb us.

 

[Yoni]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34828911

and so the circle of violence continues

 

[Raven]

Great news! It should be carried out daily, so long as the targets are real and collateral damage is kept to an absolute minimum.

I don't like that they take targets in heavily populated areas though, whacking a hellfire at a car in a town because it has a terrorist in is bound to have collateral damage, its a bit overkill really. I am pretty sure they have smaller munitions available and have the technology at hand to deliver them with precision.

Its like they are trying to use shock and awe against terrorists, it just isn't going to work. Precision, surgical strikes is what we need, our only aim should be to remove targets from the field with the least amount of fuss as possible.

Obviously training camps and so on should just be left as a great big crater in the ground but markets, not so much.

 

[Job]

For the future of mankind, every death should be shown in it's full gory detail...the grieving loved ones should havre their say, and slowly the consequences of killing will be brought home to the armchair voyeurs, not airstrikes on terrorists, dropping fucking massive bombs on civilian areas in the hope to get them....can you frickin imagine the reaction if the states decided to take out our homegrown jihads by bombing London; it sound insane...but we do it to them.

 

[Trem]

It's just all shit isn't it?

I don't remember the same worldwide sympathy when London was bombed though.

 

[Talivar]

That's an easy answer. OUR innocent lives are a disaster, THIER innocent lives are acceptable. Get over it.

Surely you must realise that by killing their innocents we are just CREATING more Terrorists?, in the same way them killing ours is creating more Blood Crazed Vengeance on all that is Muslim seeking people? Who actually benefits from all of this do you think?
You will never defeat them in this manner because every action we take like this adds to their ranks. If we are going to fight this War then we need to make a clear statement that we see ISIS as separate to the civilian Muslims and then back that up with our actions by not just bombing the civilians anyway.
I am not opposed to fighting back as i feel they have crossed a line that they cant return from, but the fight HAS to 100% be against the right people

 

[throdgrain]

This is why they bomb us.

You think you're going to change that? You think they give a fuck?

In WW2 the Germans bombed our cities for years, many people died. When eventually the shoe got on the other foot we started bombing them, hard. Do you think they people of London were wringing their hands? Nope. "As you sow, so shall you reap" I think was how it was said.

You can get as high minded about it as you like, but when someone punches you in the face, you have to punch back. If you don't, they punch you again, and again. It doesn't matter that you don't want to, the bloke that punched you, HE wanted to, and that's all that counts, unfortunately.

 

[Talivar]

Your analogy is good but in this case its not punching the guy back its roundhouse kicking him into nearby people and knocking them all off a 100f balacony

 

[Gray]

Someone on 4chan made a post on what to do with firecrackers they had....

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tyHNttogzY&


Suprised he wasn't strung up

 

[backdoor]

So who is going to the England v France game on Tuesday night?

 

[CorNokZ]

Firecrackers.. What a fucking idiot

 

[Gwadien]

You think you're going to change that? You think they give a fuck?

In WW2 the Germans bombed our cities for years, many people died. When eventually the shoe got on the other foot we started bombing them, hard. Do you think they people of London were wringing their hands? Nope. "As you sow, so shall you reap" I think was how it was said.

You can get as high minded about it as you like, but when someone punches you in the face, you have to punch back. If you don't, they punch you again, and again. It doesn't matter that you don't want to, the bloke that punched you, HE wanted to, and that's all that counts, unfortunately.

Biggest misconception ever.

Germany strategically bombed us, they hit factories and such, sure some bombs missed.

When we bombed them we targeted entire cities, in fact, we killed more people in a single bombing run than the Germans did over the entire course of the Blitz.

Because we targeted civilians intentionally in order to strike fear and get them to give up quicker.

So if anything, we're ISIS in your analogy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II
25 Thousand - 2 days.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blitz
40 Thousand - 8 months.

Let's learn from history eh? Rather than trying to re write it to suit out own skewered agenda.

Applying street fighting logic to this situation is retarded as fuck.

 

[Gwadien]

So who is going to the England v France game on Tuesday night?

My Dad could be going, not sure.

We were planning on going to the Euros next year... :/

 

[throdgrain]

Biggest misconception ever.

Germany strategically bombed us, they hit factories and such, sure some bombs missed.

When we bombed them we targeted entire cities, in fact, we killed more people in a single bombing run than the Germans did over the entire course of the Blitz.

Because we targeted civilians intentionally in order to strike fear and get them to give up quicker.

So if anything, we're ISIS in your analogy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II
25 Thousand - 2 days.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blitz
40 Thousand - 8 months.

Let's learn from history eh? Rather than trying to re write it to suit out own skewered agenda.

Applying street fighting logic to this situation is retarded as fuck.

You don't half talk some bollocks mate

 

[throdgrain]

Actually I don't even know how you dare say that. I'm going to stop posting now before you get the slagging off you fucking deserve for that.

 

[Poag]

Im not naive at all, i fully accept the loss of innocent lifes, what i cannot accept is how people seem to pick and choose which innocent lifes are worth grieving over. Its hypocrisy and thats what annoys me

If you were to be given the option where you had to choose between the life of your neighbor, or a random from somewhere else. You would instantly pick your neighbor as an impulse and sub conscious decision.
Given the time you would then weigh up the two lives then override the impulse reaction based on whatever rationalization process you go through.

This is true for everyone, your first reaction will always be "someone like me", only via stopping your impulse reaction do you change that result.

 

[Poag]

Biggest misconception ever.

Germany strategically bombed us, they hit factories and such, sure some bombs missed.

When we bombed them we targeted entire cities, in fact, we killed more people in a single bombing run than the Germans did over the entire course of the Blitz.

Incorrect.

The Germans were bombing strategically. Then one night they fucked up and hit a city center, i think it was Coventry?
MoD took it as a change in German policy and thus changed the Brit bombing methodology as a result, Germans, not knowing about the mistake, took it as a change in the Brit policy and changed also.

After the war it was discovered this was an accidental bombing in the first place. I would find some sources but cba atm.

 

[Gwadien]

You don't half talk some bollocks mate

Sorry, id better go tell the experts in this field that have been giving me this information that they're wrong and some bloke on the internet trumps him.

 

[Talivar]

Not everyone follows that form of logical thought process to make their decisions. That situation you describe for me would not go that way as i dont count Beirut or Paris or Athens or New York as having any more of a emotional link to me than any of the others, or any place besides where i actually live. They are all strangers to me and unless they directly do something to impact my life then they are all equally as valued. If i was forced to choose between the two with no possible way out i would make my pick randomly. If there was a way out though i would choose it and that's what these conversations are highlighting. I am trying to offer viewpoints that say why do any innocents have to die as opposed to others stating its fine if some die (Acceptable Losses?)
It is very rare where we are TRULY in a situation where there is only 1 option of what to do, the reality is there are always options , it is just soem need more work than others and some involve varying degrees of sacrifice to achieve.