Is this what society has come to?

BloodOmen

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I don't often make threads about specific news stories but in this instance I felt I want to.

US boy, 9, dies after 'homophobic abuse'

I have nothing against gay people, I just want to make that clear before I go further. How is it that a 9-year-old knows about this? who hammered it into his head what gay is? when I was 9, decades ago, I was out playing and having fun, not a care in the world. It's really sad that a little boy felt the need to kill himself over such a matter but as I parent I just can't help but feel, so much is being hammered into childrens heads before they've even lived these days.
 

Scouse

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If you don't know what gay is at 9 I'd say your way behind the curve.

Babies, boys and girls, start masturbating before they're one year old. Interest in sex is genetic. Do you really think they won't actively seek out information?

My mates four year old is currently on a mission to look at my cock every time I stop over at his. My missus is horrified - which I don't get. She'll grow out of it in six months and find something else to be interested in. But she's four and interested in what is clearly forbidden.

Like all kids...
 

BloodOmen

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If you don't know what gay is at 9 I'd say your way behind the curve.

Babies, boys and girls, start masturbating before they're one year old. Interest in sex is genetic. Do you really think they won't actively seek out information?

My mates four year old is currently on a mission to look at my cock every time I stop over at his. My missus is horrified - which I don't get. She'll grow out of it in six months and find something else to be interested in. But she's four and interested in what is clearly forbidden.

Like all kids...
Why would you hammer that into a child's head before it matures though? it serves no function other than to confuses its life choices. It's like parents that allow their 10-12-year-old children to start transitioning, why would you do that to a child when their mind is clearly not fully developed?

Prime example: 12-year-old boy who transitioned to female changes his mind 2 years later

I believe the same child changed his/her mind again after that.
 

Scouse

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WTF are you on about "hammering it into a child's head"??

They find it out for themselves. And it only takes one kid to find out then they *all* instantly find out.

The problem comes from fucking parents trying to "preserve kids innocence" by not telling them anything - so they find out on the playground.

If they sat them down and said "this happens, it's normal and don't go picking on people for how they feel" then kids'd run with it.

Goes for all sorts of things - like seven year old girls who get their periods and have the horrifying shock of their too-young lives...
 

Scouse

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As for your other story. Simple fix - you should be an adult before starting shit like that.
 

BloodOmen

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The problem comes from fucking parents trying to "preserve kids innocence"
What a crock of shit. I can't ever remember bullying over sexuality when I was young, that goes for every single kid I knew in the area, yet today? the above so what you've said is bollocks.
 

Gwadien

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That's because sexuality is extremely taboo in the UK, we've only recently started to talk about it, and as a result teenage pregnancies are going down.

I don't mean sexuality as in if you're gay or not, I mean talking about sex in general.

Obviously there would be no talking about if you're gay or not when you were a lad @BloodOmen because if you did you'd get beaten up, probably by teachers too.
 

BloodOmen

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Apart from the obvious kiddie insults like "Bender" or "Gay Boy" which weren't directed homophobia, just kids being kids. I can't ever remember before the age of 13+ a single instance of someone really going for it, like "Oh you're a fucking faggot!" and kicking the shit out of them etc. To see a 9-year-old child resort to suicide - let that sink in for a second, 9 years old - is appaling.
 

caLLous

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Of course it's appalling but how do you have any idea what he was going through, except for your little closed-world view that because you never saw it happening 20 odd years ago, it can't possibly happen today?

How do you have any idea what children know nowadays, with the advent of the internet and the constant connection to social networks and the world in general that it brings? You keep talking about people "hammering" ideas into his head but you have no idea beyond what you've imagined happened.
 

BloodOmen

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How do you have any idea what children know nowadays
That's kind of my point, so much is being thrust upon kids shoulders rather than just letting them be actual kids and enjoy doing things kids enjoy doing.
 

Big G

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Just for reference of "when you are gay or straight", I was interested in women's naked bodies for as far back as can remember, I was always 'attracted' to women (not sexually, but a curiousness) and I felt like I fancied girls at primary school. I reached about 13 when I noticed things happening when I looked at my first jazz mag, I had my first fap-to-jizz at 15, and then I furiously wanked myself into a near-coma ever since. Some gay men are the same - they were gay all their lives. *shrug*.

Did I do it wrong or something?
 

Scouse

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What a crock of shit. I can't ever remember bullying over sexuality when I was young, that goes for every single kid I knew in the area, yet today? the above so what you've said is bollocks.
Balls. I remember sexual bullying of a couple of kids at my school when I was 9 or 10. From the days before the internet - so actual bullying, instead of the sort of shit that can be turned off of an evening.

And as Gwadien said - now sex education is happening in repressed and victorian England teenage pregnancies are falling. More information is better than less in almost every situation.

Life is tough. Life is unfair. Give kids the intellectual weapons they need to stand up for themselves and they will use them. Or bring them up ignorant and wet.


In the case of the story of the 9 year old that you first started with. Yes, it's fucked up. But in more ways than one. When a 9 year old wants to run into school to tell everyone that he's "proud" that he's gay, that's so far outside the norm that it makes you wonder what else is going on. But I stand by my assertion - if kids are taught that this is OK, that it's normal, and that it's not OK to bully someone like that, then when those outside-the-norm things happen the chances are that at least some of the kids would stick up for him.

But maybe not. Kids are shits. It's part of growing up. Killing yourself after "4 days" of bullying is simply downright suspicious though. I don't buy it. It's not the full story.
 

fettoken

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Unfortunately, the last bit is a constant. Kids are shits. Some more than others. And yes, there's probably more to it than 'just that'.
 

Job

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Andy Murray has done an advert for some corporate right on bullshit, trending, progressive, all the numbers supporting charity, consultancy group...in which he has declared his children have no gender.

This shit would be comedy gold 5 years ago and now its in HR documentation.
 

BloodOmen

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Andy Murray has done an advert for some corporate right on bullshit, trending, progressive, all the numbers supporting charity, consultancy group...in which he has declared his children have no gender.

This shit would be comedy gold 5 years ago and now its in HR documentation.
There are only two genders, no in betweens, no on the sides or made up fairy tales, science is generally fact (until proven otherwise) and facts don't care about your feelings.
 

Scouse

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There are only two genders, no in betweens, no on the sides or made up fairy tales, science is generally fact (until proven otherwise) and facts don't care about your feelings.
You're confusing gender and biological sex.

Gender:
Gender is the range of characteristics pertaining to, and differentiating between, masculinity and femininity
Biological sex is not the same as gender. This is worth a read. Especially about the boy who's parents had him circumsized, but the doctor did it so badly that they decided to cut it all out and pretend he was a girl.
 

Gwadien

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Kids have always committed suicide for these exact reasons anyway, difference is that it's documented today.

Bullying hasn't got worse, kids just have a 24/7 access to someone to bully them.

I don't see why people can't just live and let live, it doesn't have any impact on your every day life.
 

Job

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Bullying exists because those in power tolerate it.
I of course mean liberals.
You could end it tomorrow by making the consequences greater than the bully can tolerate.
Then you get the ..dont stoop to their level...throway bullshit urban myth style defence.
And here we are decades later with epic levels of self harm, suicides and depression....but on the good side not a single bully was harmed in this pseudo science liberal wankfest.
 

BloodOmen

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You're confusing gender and biological sex.

Gender:


Biological sex is not the same as gender. This is worth a read. Especially about the boy who's parents had him circumsized, but the doctor did it so badly that they decided to cut it all out and pretend he was a girl.
Yes, my point being just because you say you're a chicken, doesn't make you a chicken. Just because you say you're a woman doesn't make you a woman, all of your cells within your body are still male excluding sperm.

Don't get me wrong before you start making wild accusations, despite my stance on that, I have no issues with people wanting to be XYZ, that's fine and I'm happy for them and I'd treat them no lesser or better than anyone else, I just don't have to share their views.
 

Hawkwind

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The whole trendy gender issue is just PC & feminism gone mad to me. The whole "Theybies" thing is just a fashion statement by trendy wannabies and I don't get it. I understand being tolerant and have no issue with a person being whatever he/she or the PC he/she/zi/xi.... wants to be. However, I really don't understand raising genderless kids and allowing them, far too young to make informed decisions, choose their own gender. You end up with bullying and far worse the mess of gender reassignments far too young.

'Boy or girl?' Parents raising ‘theybies’ let kids decide

Parents of ‘theybies’ explain why they are concealing the genders of their children

Too old for this shit...I'll just stick to being generally nice or tolerant to people regardless of race, colour, gender or religion.
 

Scouse

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Yes, my point being just because you say you're a chicken, doesn't make you a chicken. Just because you say you're a woman doesn't make you a woman, all of your cells within your body are still male excluding sperm.
Did you even read the link?

You quoted "science" in confirmation of your views. Well science tells you that you're wrong.

Now, if you actually think science is the correct way to get to the truth of things you now have to change your views. That, or fess up to them being beliefs based on emotion, and fuck all to do with science.
 

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Gender Studies is a science now is it?

Think that's more of an indictment of 2018 that anything else I've read.
 

Scouse

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Gender Studies is a science now is it?

Think that's more of an indictment of 2018 that anything else I've read.
Gender studies has been a thing since before you were born.

When I was at Uni in the early 90's all my archaeologist friends did a whole semester understanding gender as opposed to sex as it's critical in understanding non-binary societies (which have been incredibly common throughout history, just as they are today, notwithstanding the epic judaeo-christian hangover the world is experiencing).

I know that fact threatens the likes of you though Bodhi, so have a fluffle and go have a lie down instead of considering such upsetting ideas :fluffle:
 

BloodOmen

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Did you even read the link?

You quoted "science" in confirmation of your views. Well science tells you that you're wrong.

Now, if you actually think science is the correct way to get to the truth of things you now have to change your views. That, or fess up to them being beliefs based on emotion, and fuck all to do with science.
No, I didn't. It was 1am and I was off to bed. I'll read it now.
 

DaGaffer

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If you don't know what gay is at 9 I'd say your way behind the curve.

Babies, boys and girls, start masturbating before they're one year old. Interest in sex is genetic. Do you really think they won't actively seek out information?

My mates four year old is currently on a mission to look at my cock every time I stop over at his. My missus is horrified - which I don't get. She'll grow out of it in six months and find something else to be interested in. But she's four and interested in what is clearly forbidden.

Like all kids...
Oh for God’s sake; none of the things you’re describing have anything to do with sex; curiosity about one’s body,or other people’s for that matter, is just that, curiosity. Little boys get erections, but it’s not as a response to sexual stimuli, it’s just an autonomous reaction.

Until puberty, which literally rewires the human brain, conversations about sexuality are abstract; it doesn’t mean kids don’t know about sex and some may even experiment, but that’s a learned behaviour, an imitation.

It’s profoundly misguided to presume (and enable) any child who claims to “know” their sexual preferences or gender preferences, before puberty.

Does this mean some kids are going to have a tough time during their teens? Certainly. But as you’re keen to point out, life is hard, so tough shit.

None of this is to say homophobia is acceptable, but sending a 9 year old off to tell his friends he’s gay is moronic and a failure of the parents’ duty of care to protect their child.

As for letting kids who’s bodies haven’t even finished growing “transition”; it’s insane. The latest in a long line of well-intentioned but wrong use of surgery to resolve mental health issues.
 

Gwadien

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Yeah, you're right.

Letting your daughters dress up scantly also is bad because it means that you're wanting them to be raped, right.
 

BloodOmen

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Did you even read the link?
Interesting, especially the people that were born or later found out that they were the opposite sex.

I found the most interesting thing in the comments however

"it is one thing to give support to those who were not born XX or XY, but another to go into schools and encourage kids who are not confused to be confused."
 

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