Scottish Election

Will

/bin/su
Staff member
Joined
Dec 17, 2003
Messages
5,259
Looks like good for the SNP who have picked up the Lib-Dem vote and leap-frogged Labour in what were fairly safe seats.
 

Ch3tan

I aer teh win!!
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
27,305
Oh good, Scottish independence a step closer. Let's hope they do it without raping the rest of the UK for cash.
 

rynnor

Rockhound
Moderator
Joined
Dec 26, 2003
Messages
9,353
Oh good, Scottish independence a step closer. Let's hope they do it without raping the rest of the UK for cash.
How would it ever work - we own their financial sector. We could crash it and effectively bankrupt them at independance?
 

Will

/bin/su
Staff member
Joined
Dec 17, 2003
Messages
5,259
Oh good, Scottish independence a step closer. Let's hope they do it without raping the rest of the UK for cash.
I don't see it being that close yet. For me, my opinion on independence depends on the terms of the settlement.

How would it ever work - we own their financial sector. We could crash it and effectively bankrupt them at independance?
Cut them off and send them into the sea!
I love a rational discussion in the morning.
 

Ch3tan

I aer teh win!!
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
27,305
It's because we are bitter Will.... and are you surprised considering you've already used the word "settlement"?

It's bad enough that the devolved governments spend all our money as it is.
 

rynnor

Rockhound
Moderator
Joined
Dec 26, 2003
Messages
9,353
I love a rational discussion in the morning.
Its a serious question though - its one thing to consider independance but how would it ever be done - the two countries are so entangled it would take years to work out and neither side would ever be happy.

Would scotland join the EU and the Euro - would it be able to satisfy the financial tests to join. Would england block its application because they were unhappy with the settlement?

What would the new scotland do with all its regiments - they'd have way too many. etc. etc.
 

Wij

I am a FH squatter
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
13,944
What would the new scotland do with all its regiments - they'd have way too many. etc. etc.
They'd disband them and get a free ride off our armed forces !

Fuck it. New high-tech Hadrian's wall and let the Vikings conquer them :)
 

DaGaffer

Down With That Sorta Thing
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
16,610
Its a serious question though - its one thing to consider independance but how would it ever be done - the two countries are so entangled it would take years to work out and neither side would ever be happy.

Would scotland join the EU and the Euro - would it be able to satisfy the financial tests to join. Would england block its application because they were unhappy with the settlement?

What would the new scotland do with all its regiments - they'd have way too many. etc. etc.
Its doable. Look at Czechoslovakia for an example. However, the Scottish people would be biblically stupid to vote for it. The Euro is non-starter and the EU is no mood or position to subsidise Scotland the way England does (one basket case in the British Isles is probably enough for them to handle right now), and Scotland would have to take on some real costs that are convieniently managed from Westminster right now.

The military thing is a red herring, Scotland probably wouldn't even bother with any regular military forces, which would save them a bit, but the real costs of their social welfare, health and education departments would cripple them.
 

Tom

FH is my second home
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
15,991
Uh oh, now you've done it. You included the Republic of Ireland in the geographic British Isles.

;)
 

Sparx

Cheeky Fucknugget
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Messages
8,059
Being Scottish i think it would be a stupid idea to break away, for everyone involved

I also hate this whole yeah we support you, you get all your money from us, as if its a country that just all on the dole.

It couldnt happen realisitically, someone mentioned the military, thats a great example, a large amount of the infantry in the UK is Scottish, so the English army would be massively reduced which meant they couldnt support wars with America which will have a massive impact in other areas.
And what about Faslane? thats a massive base for the south to lose, and the SAS? nearly two thirds of the SAS are Scottish, do we disband them?

I live in London, does that mean no more Irn Bru in the shops? or will it be really expensive? its bad enough not having decent square sausages
 

DaGaffer

Down With That Sorta Thing
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
16,610
Being Scottish i think it would be a stupid idea to break away, for everyone involved

I also hate this whole yeah we support you, you get all your money from us, as if its a country that just all on the dole.

It couldnt happen realisitically, someone mentioned the military, thats a great example, a large amount of the infantry in the UK is Scottish, so the English army would be massively reduced which meant they couldnt support wars with America which will have a massive impact in other areas.
And what about Faslane? thats a massive base for the south to lose, and the SAS? nearly two thirds of the SAS are Scottish, do we disband them?

I live in London, does that mean no more Irn Bru in the shops? or will it be really expensive? its bad enough not having decent square sausages

Two-thirds of the SAS are Scottish? Really? Never heard that one before. All the military stuff (including Faslane) is a red herring; Scotsmen without an army would stroll across the border to join the English army in exactly the same way that Irishmen do to this very day (14% of recruits to the British Army in 2008 were from the ROI). As for Faslane, all that would happen is that the RN would lease it from Scotland for a period until they could move south (like the Treaty ports the RN kept in Ireland until the 30s), or the SNP would declare Scotland nuclear free (and lose a load of jobs they could ill-afford to see go) and the RN would move south even more quickly on the promise of new jobs for Englishmen.
 

Chilly

Balls of steel
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
9,046
We have bases all over the world anyway. We'd sign a 1000 year lease with scotland for a pint a year (or some token amount) and just carry on.

what about all the money that pours out of aberdeen though? All the gas and oil goes through there. That's probably enough to pay for the entire country?
 

rynnor

Rockhound
Moderator
Joined
Dec 26, 2003
Messages
9,353
what about all the money that pours out of aberdeen though? All the gas and oil goes through there. That's probably enough to pay for the entire country?
Thats the only asset though and set against that you have massive welfare dependancy, a financial sector that only exists due to intervention by the country to the south, a bunch of nationalists who only understand handouts and have never had to balance the books, a currency that no one would buy etc. etc.

I very much doubt scotland could get into the euro in current circumstances - the other countries have no appetite for more prospective bailouts.

Independance would be a disaster all around but at some point the country to the south will get pissed off with having it constantly raised so they can milk some more advantage.

The English should have a referendum as to whether to expel the scots and welsh from the union.
 

Chilly

Balls of steel
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
9,046
haha, expel pre-emptively :D I'd vote yes just to fuck them off. London pays all the bills, live with it.
 

Sparx

Cheeky Fucknugget
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Messages
8,059
Two-thirds of the SAS are Scottish? Really? Never heard that one before. All the military stuff (including Faslane) is a red herring; Scotsmen without an army would stroll across the border to join the English army in exactly the same way that Irishmen do to this very day (14% of recruits to the British Army in 2008 were from the ROI). As for Faslane, all that would happen is that the RN would lease it from Scotland for a period until they could move south (like the Treaty ports the RN kept in Ireland until the 30s), or the SNP would declare Scotland nuclear free (and lose a load of jobs they could ill-afford to see go) and the RN would move south even more quickly on the promise of new jobs for Englishmen.
When i was based in Chelsea Barracks the SAS used to come in every other weekend to train in the old block of flats at the back of the base to practice FIBUA which was brilliant to watch. We used to have a drink with them and chat alot with them, very nice guys. From my own experience i can tell you most of them were scottish

Chelsea B before it was knocked down, the two high rise flats bottom righ in the blue area was all derelict and thats where they used to abseil and practise things like the Iranian seige sort of situations (though of course not the actual Iranian seige as we all know they built a mock up of the embassy for that)

 

rynnor

Rockhound
Moderator
Joined
Dec 26, 2003
Messages
9,353
Looks like the SNP will get its majority control - but what happens if they bring in an Independance referendum and the people vote no?

Doesnt that leave them in the same position as the Lib Dems after the AV vote goes no - ie f00ked :p
 

Embattle

FH is my second home
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
9,351
The reality is that voting for the SNP is in no way a vote in favour of independence.
 

rynnor

Rockhound
Moderator
Joined
Dec 26, 2003
Messages
9,353
Interesting that SNP support is absent in the two biggest cities and that whole southern strip. Its the highlanders that have voted for em.
 

Big G

Has a sexy sister. I am also a Bodhi wannabee.
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
16,137
It's bad enough that the devolved governments spend all our money as it is.
Do you have a solid break down of figures that backs this up?

London pays all the bills, live with it.
I know you're being flippant, but I find this to be an arrogant and ignorant point of view. You could argue that London 'supports' everything north of Watford Gap, so why stop at Scotland? My colleagues in London share the same view - they'd built a perimeter fence around the M25 and leave the UK to get on with their own affairs; they dislike Northerners with a passion.

Today is a great day for the SNP and it's really a sign of the times. My peers and I voted for the SNP for mostly the following reasons:

- Labour, fucking lol :)
- Lib Dem, fucking lol x 2 :)
- Conservative would have been my choice but with no chance of getting in, voted SNP
- Alex Salmond has charism and drive unlike any of the other leaders
- They've done ok so far, they've delivered some very important projects (new train line from Glasgow to Edinburgh, the M74 completion, the M80 completion, the soon-to-be M8 completion and new Forth crossing)

Re Indepedence, never going to happen. As Embattle has said, voting SNP is in no way a representation that people will vote for independence. Again, my peers are dead against it for a lot of reasons. If you look at the number of people that voted SNP versus who voted everyone else, the majority didn't vote SNP. If you presume ane generalise that those who didn't vote SNP wouldn't vote for independence, then that should tell you something right away before we factor in the SNP voters who also don't want independence. Some things to consider:

- what does it mean for nationality? Will I hold dual citizenship with 'England'? or will I be forced to have a Scottish passport? My family are Irish and English in heritage, my grandparents on my dad's side are from Ealing in London so I have family there - I don't like the idea of losing my national British identity

- who the fuck is going to pay for it? Surely we'd need to set up a Scottish DVLA, Scottish passport thingy and all the administration that goes with that?

- if the SNP enforce strict immigration control, who pays for a huge investment in border control?

- what will happen for those (like me) who work for a British company who are split between Scotland and England with regards to operations and business?
 

Big G

Has a sexy sister. I am also a Bodhi wannabee.
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
16,137
Interesting that SNP support is absent in the two biggest cities and that whole southern strip. Its the highlanders that have voted for em.
With respect, but that's absolute bollocks.

The central belt of Scotland (from Glasgow to Edinburgh inclusive) is a sea of Yellow, there are some fringe areas in Glasgow (the poverty stricken bits) that stayed Labour. Glasgow and the central belt have been Labour heartlands for a long time but have significantly swung towards SNP because everyone knows that Labour are useless. The highlands were typically a mix between Lib Dem and SNP, but noone with half a brain would vote for Lib Dem hence the swing to SNP in the remaining highland areas.

I refer you to the 2001 census population density map to show the correlation between headcount and vote swing.

MORAY CENSUS 2001
 

Sparx

Cheeky Fucknugget
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Messages
8,059
Totally agree with All G said, being a Scotsman living in London myself it would be stupid to split
Im Scottish of course but im proud to be British and say im British.

When i go home i find the people who want independance are the the folks who scream "i want away fae thay English wankers" and when you ask them how many English have they ever met? when you get "none and i want to keep it that way" it saddens me.

Thats not what Scots are about but unfortunately thats what people think. Well thats what ive picked up from spending 12 years in London
 

throdgrain

FH is my second home
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
7,194
People in Scotland vote for the SNP because they want everything for nothing, and the SNP tell them they can have it.
 

Big G

Has a sexy sister. I am also a Bodhi wannabee.
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
16,137
Oh for fucks sake Throddy; that's such a ignorant, inaccurate and bigoted load of shite.
 

Big G

Has a sexy sister. I am also a Bodhi wannabee.
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
16,137
Even still, if you want to make this 'Scotland v England' (which it isn't, but anyway), what government would you rather have ruling up here? Scottish Labour pishing even more cash up the wall and appeasing the maggots in the outskirts of Glasgow? Or the SNP using the cash wisely in the investment of the country's future?

SNP getting into power (imo...) is a win win for Scotland and England.
 

Big G

Has a sexy sister. I am also a Bodhi wannabee.
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
16,137
When i go home i find the people who want independance are the the folks who scream "i want away fae thay English wankers" and when you ask them how many English have they ever met? when you get "none and i want to keep it that way" it saddens me.
Indeed, there are fuckwits north and south of the border.
 

rynnor

Rockhound
Moderator
Joined
Dec 26, 2003
Messages
9,353
With respect, but that's absolute bollocks.

The central belt of Scotland (from Glasgow to Edinburgh inclusive) is a sea of Yellow, there are some fringe areas in Glasgow (the poverty stricken bits) that stayed Labour.
Whoops! Misread the map on the TV its the borderlands and east lothian that are the holdouts from the SNP.
 

rynnor

Rockhound
Moderator
Joined
Dec 26, 2003
Messages
9,353
The money thing doesnt really bother me but it annoys me that Scottish MP's still vote on issues that only affect the non-devolution parts of the UK - that to me seems un-constitutional.

I also think England needs its own devolved powers free from the influence of 'tha outside' :p

Edit: Oh and does anyone else think that devolution inevitably leads to Independance at some point?
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top Bottom