A Unwritten Rule.

[charmangle]

Im discussing the threadstarters first post...

Char, you're off. We are not talking about ninjaing every single arti encounter, we are talking of belonging to a guild containing a once errant player.

Some people need to concentrate more on playing daoc and less on whining on fh.

Im discussing the threadstarters first post...
Im not sure what you are discussing though...but judging by the cryptic post Im not supposed to know ?

Yep you are right I need to play MORE Daoc the question just is what RL will allow!

/Charmangle

 

[Thorwyn]

Wrong. Wrong in so many ways.

First off, you don´t know jack shit about me or where "my arguments are coming from", so stick to you own recommendations (as displayed in your very own posts up there) and don´t make interpretations without proper backup. "The decency" thing - as you call it - is commonly known as "politeness". And politeness is something that´s happening between people. It´s not something you can enforce. Tangent: that´s basically the main flaw of this entire thread. You keep talking about an unwritten rule. An unwritten rules is the result of a quiet agreement between people. It´s not something that someone can just postulate because it fits into your books and expect people to follow it.

No, casual players would not benefit from this rule, simply because camping muppets would dictate if and how (= at what price) those casual plyers would be able to get their artis. On the other hand, if the caual player just logs on, gets a bunch of people together and just starts a raid over the various places, the chances of getting an arti are pretty high. In fact, people would ABUSE your own rules and hide behind those honorable ideas of one realm and everybody fighting side by side etc.etc.blabla.

As I said, if your "rules" would be in effect, the market for artifacts would basically be under control of a bunch of people, who can afford to play 24/7. If you´re a little familiar with the MMORP scene, you might know what happened in Lineage. If you´re not, feel free to google it and you´ll see what I mean. It would happen.

The "I see it its mine" mentality only benefits hardcore rvr guilds basically.

And the "I don´t see it, but it´s mine anyways" mentality doesn´t?

Its alot easier for casual players to get encounters/artifacts when people actually respect that it might take them a little time to get together the few people they know to help them out.

Wait wait... now what exactly are you trying to enforce here. First, you said the guy that´s camping the arti does have an exclusive right to try it first. Now you´re talking about giving him time to gather his group. That´s a very important difference. Giving campers a buffer time of 10 minutes is considered common courtesy amongst many players. And that´s a good thing IMO. But CLAIMING the arti/encounter isn´t.

As I see it, your trying to create an ideal world of "happy scrappy We´re all one world" community. And although I hate to dissapoint you: that´s not gonna happen. Just like it´s not gonna happen in the real world. Ideals and respect is fine... don´t get me wrong there. I´d appreciate if people would show respect a lot more. But I will certainly not try and hunt the phantom of enforcing it by punishing those, who´re not sharing your points of view.

 

[Kathal]

Someone mentioned RL queues earlier, imagine if you saw some random guy come up and queue for concert tickets, then he puts a cardboard cutout of himself in the queue, walks off into the local pub and an hour later returns, then stands where the cutout is...ofc in this example some poor sod has kept moving it forward for him.

Im going to try to place a “Camped by Kathal” sticker at the ticked sale next time there are a U2 concert in Denmark. I’ll ofc have to be there within 10 mins after it opens. Yey, first ticket to me.

And scare of? in a way maybe...
But pll do what they want dont they?

Scare ppl of will turn them against you. If you scare the wrong ppl off with YOUR rules/treads etc. they MIGHT ruin your raids.

Sigh once again for those who still havent picked up on the last 20 posts or so...

Fyi I read every single post.

Its not about power...its about everyone playing the game with people they like and having the right not to play with those they dont like.

lol. It’s all about power. The power to pull your way of playing this game down over other ppl head. Fair enough if some moron ruins your raids then ban him, but we are NOT talking about the raids. We are talking about how ppl should behave at artifact encounters.
What’s next?? Ppl that have a WL can’t join because they think they are retards irl?? What if I add on one of his fights in RvR?? What if I DON’T add on one of his fights in RvR and he dies??
Do they have the power to get some to follow these rules?? Probably.
Are they shooting themselves in the foot by doing this?? Probably.

If you like to steamroll people without a care in the world about the fact that you actually ruin the game for alot of people. Those same people and their friends have the right to just not include you when doing their own thing.

They will limit ppls possibilities in the game because they don’t agree with them. That’s wrong and there WILL be some kind of reaction at some point.

Once you get that its gonna be alot easier to discuss. You get the treatment youve earned in the game.

Once you get that these raid leaders word isn’t law you will realize that they can’t force this on ppl.

ps: Well babybrother have been holding their own alot better than bigger brother did before cluster if im not totally incorrect! ds.

Well if you count all the JS and BoZ raids then, yes. But I have been on more Excal dragon raids than Pryd dragon raids and my guild have done more BoZ and JS raids than your raid leaders together (With 6-8 ppl). My guild have done a few ML BG raids and the reason the Excal ML “raiders” have stopped doing marathon MLs is probably because it’s easier to let the pryd ppl do it.
Anyways I was referring to the number of ppl and the age of the server.

PS. I help and respect most (this dies ofc. not include BC and a few members in different guilds) of the ppl on the servers and would give them reasonable time to get ppl together for an artifact. But if they start to say BS when me and my friends show up they "loose" the encounter.

 

[Skirne]

I am sorry, but I need to post this again.

@ all the qqers, keep it up!

 

[vavires]

Im going to try to place a “Camped by Kathal” sticker at the ticked sale next time there are a U2 concert in Denmark. I’ll ofc have to be there within 10 mins after it opens. Yey, first ticket to me.

Scare ppl of will turn them against you. If you scare the wrong ppl off with YOUR rules/treads etc. they MIGHT ruin your raids.

Fyi I read every single post.

lol. It’s all about power. The power to pull your way of playing this game down over other ppl head. Fair enough if some moron ruins your raids then ban him, but we are NOT talking about the raids. We are talking about how ppl should behave at artifact encounters.
What’s next?? Ppl that have a WL can’t join because they think they are retards irl?? What if I add on one of his fights in RvR?? What if I DON’T add on one of his fights in RvR and he dies??
Do they have the power to get some to follow these rules?? Probably.
Are they shooting themselves in the foot by doing this?? Probably.

They will limit ppls possibilities in the game because they don’t agree with them. That’s wrong and there WILL be some kind of reaction at some point.

Once you get that these raid leaders word isn’t law you will realize that they can’t force this on ppl.

Well if you count all the JS and BoZ raids then, yes. But I have been on more Excal dragon raids than Pryd dragon raids and my guild have done more BoZ and JS raids than your raid leaders together (With 6-8 ppl). My guild have done a few ML BG raids and the reason the Excal ML “raiders” have stopped doing marathon MLs is probably because it’s easier to let the pryd ppl do it.
Anyways I was referring to the number of ppl and the age of the server.

PS. I help and respect most (this dies ofc. not include BC and a few members in different guilds) of the ppl on the servers and would give them reasonable time to get ppl together for an artifact. But if they start to say BS when me and my friends show up they "loose" the encounter.

Luckely for me
interfering in public raids and obstructing it in any way is aginst the CoC.
and i can form a formel complaint

 

[Skirne]

And when you cannot you need to do it the ol' commy way? Whoppidoo!

 

[noaim]

You keep saying its about forcing people...
Havent you read through the posts ? Its ABOUT not wanting to play the game with people you dont like.

If someone dont show you courtesy, why should you play with them at all ?

You CANT force ME to play with people who have no respect for me at all. (have them in my guild/alliance/raids/rvr) etc.

/Charmangle

Dont tell me you actually think anyone would give a fuck about if you want to play with them or not lol.

 

[Sye]

lol. It’s all about power. The power to pull your way of playing this game down over other ppl head. Fair enough if some moron ruins your raids then ban him, but we are NOT talking about the raids. We are talking about how ppl should behave at artifact encounters.
What’s next?? Ppl that have a WL can’t join because they think they are retards irl?? What if I add on one of his fights in RvR?? What if I DON’T add on one of his fights in RvR and he dies??
Do they have the power to get some to follow these rules?? Probably.
Are they shooting themselves in the foot by doing this?? Probably.

They will limit ppls possibilities in the game because they don’t agree with them. That’s wrong and there WILL be some kind of reaction at some point.

Once you get that these raid leaders word isn’t law you will realize that they can’t force this on ppl.

I think you should boot that guild from your alliance as 1 of their members said "hello" on your /as the other day! So much spamming, you dont need that in /as!

I find your post quite funny when you insist on how people should behave on /as and enforce your own play style on others!

 

[Kathal]

I will use the same playing style as the player that affected me badly did. Hence show no respect for what they think is fun in the game as long as its within the CoC. Which was the argument I was answering.

It has nothing to do with harassing people. So where did you get that from ? You just made it up for the fun of it ?

So doing ML10 before a FFA raid to prevent the raid leaders doing ML10 is ok?? I mean they have been prevented to do ML10 on the FFA raid so I guess its ok for them to prevent the FFA to do it as well.
lol and you are talking about the wellbeing of the servers. This is how we got to where we are today. Some pricks did it to everyone and it kind of snowballed. This is how things work on Excal and you Pryd ppl are not going to change that. BC is still here. Get them to respect ppl and you will get a medal.

 

[Thorwyn]

u keep saying ppl who only log in 2-3h a day
im on vacation now, but i got a life to, and i work and i got my own family. Still i have gotten plenty of arties, if i can do it why cant no1 else?

I don´t give a flying f*ck how many artifacts you own or how you got them. There are plenty of ways to get artis, join a large guild, buy them ingame, buy them on ebay, farm them, trade them. That´s not what we´re discussing here. My point was, that by CLAIMING artifacts via camping, you´d cut off casual gamers. As it is (and was on Excal), everybody was able to get his artis because having a group + finding the mob = getting the arti. Much fairer.
And even if you managed to get all this stuff, then it´s still not up to you to expect other people to follow and do as you do. I have it, so why don´t you is not a valid argument.

and again, learn to know me before speaking of my ego.

I`m speaking of you based upon your holier than though performance here in this thread. *shrug*

 

[Henx]

First of all – whether the rule is unwritten or not – really isn’t the point of the treed. If you put it as “Unwritten rule” = Good behaviour, we are getting closer to what the issue is about.

Now who are any to define good behaviour? To be honest no one but each individual player have to decide that for himself. It is obvious that the perception is different between what was Excal and Prywden. I am not biased in any way, but things have shifted a bit after the clustering.

I am not quit sure if I feel bad about having started the matter or not. But I was the one that started talking to raid leaders and guildmaster about trying if a ban of some of the worst cases of selfishness and in (Prywden old realm) rudeness could be a solution.

The case started in my case like this. I was ready to pull an encounter and was waiting for friends that needed it for arrive. I told a group they should not pull it, cause I could do it but wouldn’t until friends was inc for the encounter. They did, took the artefact and went /anon.

Let us turn the table for a few postings. Aarween, Calo, Glenmoreangie what would you guys think was the appropriate solution for the problem? Should we accept people doing something that most of the old Prywden server would think is very wrong and selfish? And why should any player accept that someone was doing what the vaster majority of the players would consider totally disrespectful? Why should I accept them to piss me off with acting in (to me) a poor manor?

When I play from time to time and finally find the encounter I need around – Try to gather the people I need for it - and someone jumps in and grabs it – why should I live with that? I know most would say – you of cause shouldn’t – and that is where the ban comes into play. Why should I and mi friends play with those I and they consider jerks?

I have helped MANY players with gaining the items they need. It really works like this. If I help players/friends from time to time, often they even would pm me (no guild mates/no alliance mates) that an encounter I needed was up, and if I wanted to join in and even let me lotto.

Just look at the LONG running raids on old Prywden. The first few time there where many Excal peps. When they found about the mod system almost left. Many thought that was due to they couldn’t gain quick loot. Is there any truth in that? Sometimes it feels like if people can’t get what they want now and fast they don’t care.

Hope we can change it all to people are being more helpful and less selfish.

 

[Henx]

And for the record - DON'T blame CANADA - It was me that started it all.

 

[Henx]

And Aarween. I totally agree that it really isn't up to any to set a standars for what is right or wrong.

Ban him for using a red colored cloak and so forth. But you have to agree that somethings are more obvious than others.

BTW like the way you argue... Some really good thouughts in it..

And mind the ban isn't a lifetime ban. It was thought as a temp ban until the guilds could clean up their ranks for those selfish buggers that roam out there.

 

[Kathal]

I think you should boot that guild from your alliance as 1 of their members said "hello" on your /as the other day! So much spamming, you dont need that in /as!

I find your post quite funny when you insist on how people should behave on /as and enforce your own play style on others!

Ohh one of the kids again
When you join an alliance you accept the rules. If you continue to break the rules you are kicked from the alliance.
When I join a raid I accept the rules that include the raid and NOT how I do artifacts. If I break the rules on the raid I should get kicked maybe even banned.
IF I do an artifact in front of some solo camper I can expect the same to be done to me. This is how things work on Excal. We (LFoM) TRIED to respect everyone camping but it didn't work.

GMs make the rules in their guilds.
Alliance officers make rules in their alliances.
Raid leaders make rules on their raids.
Raid leaders do NOT make rules about how ppl should play the game outside their raids.
Raid leaders have the power to lead their raids with their rules and THATS IT!!!

 

[Sye]

Ohh one of the kids again
When you join an alliance you accept the rules. If you continue to break the rules you are kicked from the alliance.
When I join a raid I accept the rules that include the raid and NOT how I do artifacts. If I break the rules on the raid I should get kicked maybe even banned.
IF I do an artifact in front of some solo camper I can expect the same to be done to me. This is how things work on Excal. We (LFoM) TRIED to respect everyone camping but it didn't work.

GMs make the rules in their guilds.
Alliance officers make rules in their alliances.
Raid leaders make rules on their raids.
Raid leaders do NOT make rules about how ppl should play the game outside their raids.
Raid leaders have the power to lead their raids with their rules and THATS IT!!!

Goa make a CoC but how many abide by it? lol

Thought you'd bite at my post

 

[Kathal]

Luckely for me
interfering in public raids and obstructing it in any way is aginst the CoC.
and i can form a formel complaint

That is a lie. I do NOT have to read FH before my raid if I decide to do one.
I do NOT have to respect any raids posted on this forum.
YOU can NOT claim an encounter at ALL.

Agree ??

Goa make a CoC but how many abide by it? lol

Well all the bright, honest ppl?? The rest can go to hell (read WoW) for all I care

 

[vavires]

That is a lie. I do NOT have to read FH before my raid if I decide to do one.
I do NOT have to respect any raids posted on this forum.
YOU can NOT claim an encounter at ALL.

Agree ??

Well all the bright, honest ppl?? The rest can go to hell (read WoW) for all I care

ofc not in that way,
i meant literly screwing it up like joining it and messing it up in that way

 

[Kathal]

ofc not in that way,
i meant literly screwing it up like joining it and messing it up in that way

Vav don’t get me wrong. I appreciate what you do with all those raids and all, I just disagree with you big time when it comes to banning ppl left and right for doing something that does not concern your raids.
Yes it would have been nice if BC didn’t get this mentality going on Excal, but its just too late to do something about it. As long as there are pricks "stealing" from others and at the same time stays on the "right" side of the CoC there will be others doing what they can to get what they need.
There are too much history on Excal that works against this so it will never be a happy happy joy joy server you (and many others) want it to be.

 

[charmangle]

Im to tired and busy to rewrite every post on this board...

Wrong. Wrong in so many ways.

First off, you don´t know jack shit about me or where "my arguments are coming from", so stick to you own recommendations (as displayed in your very own posts up there) and don´t make interpretations without proper backup. "The decency" thing - as you call it - is commonly known as "politeness". And politeness is something that´s happening between people. It´s not something you can enforce. Tangent: that´s basically the main flaw of this entire thread. You keep talking about an unwritten rule. An unwritten rules is the result of a quiet agreement between people. It´s not something that someone can just postulate because it fits into your books and expect people to follow it.

No, casual players would not benefit from this rule, simply because camping muppets would dictate if and how (= at what price) those casual plyers would be able to get their artis. On the other hand, if the caual player just logs on, gets a bunch of people together and just starts a raid over the various places, the chances of getting an arti are pretty high. In fact, people would ABUSE your own rules and hide behind those honorable ideas of one realm and everybody fighting side by side etc.etc.blabla.

As I said, if your "rules" would be in effect, the market for artifacts would basically be under control of a bunch of people, who can afford to play 24/7. If you´re a little familiar with the MMORP scene, you might know what happened in Lineage. If you´re not, feel free to google it and you´ll see what I mean. It would happen.



And the "I don´t see it, but it´s mine anyways" mentality doesn´t?



Wait wait... now what exactly are you trying to enforce here. First, you said the guy that´s camping the arti does have an exclusive right to try it first. Now you´re talking about giving him time to gather his group. That´s a very important difference. Giving campers a buffer time of 10 minutes is considered common courtesy amongst many players. And that´s a good thing IMO. But CLAIMING the arti/encounter isn´t.

As I see it, your trying to create an ideal world of "happy scrappy We´re all one world" community. And although I hate to dissapoint you: that´s not gonna happen. Just like it´s not gonna happen in the real world. Ideals and respect is fine... don´t get me wrong there. I´d appreciate if people would show respect a lot more. But I will certainly not try and hunt the phantom of enforcing it by punishing those, who´re not sharing your points of view.

Im to tired and busy to rewrite every post on this board...my only comment here is:

I never said im trying to enforce anything...infact your so wrong that you somehow got to the other side of the bowl...I am NOT trying to enforce anything and noone else is...other than you maybe im not sure...

READ THE FIRST post...thats what we are discussing...

/Charmangle

 

[old.windforce]

i asked rightnow

Response (CM_EN) 12/19/2005 04:19 PM
Hello,

Thank you for your question.

We have given out statements on this matter several times already.

Our CoC/EulA does NOT regocnize camping in any way. A mob or an encounter becomes "yours" as soon as you pull it. If it agros you it belongs to you. You can be stood at the encounter for 7 weeks straight before it and if it pops it will not be yours in any way untill you pull it.

Camping and any rules associated with it are solely agreed between players and will not be enforced by GOA in any way.

Yours sincerely,
---------------------------------------------
European Dark Age of Camelot Community Manager

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

i asked rightnow

old news, and noone disputed that...
The question was about curtesy.
Like in real life, there's no law about spitting someone in the face. There is however a general sensus that you just don't do that to someone.

 

[Tasslehoff]

i asked rightnow

Happy to see, that you understood what the whole thread was about

 

[old.windforce]

i actually do understand wher ethe thread is about. It is about local folklore what good manners are

 

[vavires]

look what post is this 143?
doesnt change the matter, it is as it is in primary post...

 

[Herjulf]

1 i dont think ppl would do that, they would ask u to join or if he does, u wait and c if there are really ppl inc, the u can still claim it

ppl do that, look at the arti´s out for sale. They arent needed by any1 they are farmed by ppl that need plat.
So ppl do that.

Not literrary marathon camping, If you check key artis like cloudsong and GoV as much as i do you notice that you can count the ppl camping those artis on one hand.

And yes you include Campbots in your nazi "unwritten" rule.
Because there is nothing saying that "Vavibb-prydwen" isnt a campbot even should he need it.
And if i PM a character standing there that is a campbot "are you campbot?" the reply will be "no need arti+enc.".

So

The ACTUALL unwritten rule stands as always.
First able to start encounter and finish it WINS.
And this is supported by the GOA CoC.

I am wondering if Vavires and bluesky is one of the farmers, so its a matter of greed behind this crap.

 

[Skirne]

CoC is great. It makes people behave a lot better when they are in the line of sight of other players.

 

[Henx]

And yes you include Campbots in your nazi "unwritten" rule. Because there is nothing saying that "Vavibb-prydwen" isnt a campbot even should he need it.
And if i PM a character standing there that is a campbot "are you campbot?" the reply will be "no need arti+enc.".

Do you really know what the Nazi’s where all about, or is it just cause there is something you disagree with ya throw that word around?

As so many have written in this treed. Do as you please Herjulf.... You now know what many people think of it, and if someone don't want to let you get on a raid, group with you in RvR or whatever - that is up to them... It really is that simple...

You can dislike or disagree with the ethics that some think should be in the game all ya like - but if people think ya being a jerk for acting as you write, you now know why...

But really - you do as you think is right for you - and just try to have a good time playing - so will the rest of that group, whatever they would like to do without you...

 

[ViPeOuT]

Sigh...I posted a quote from the first post in the thread and you still havent read it and you still keep arguing about things that wasnt in the first post.

Id suggest that you read the first page again. And concentrate on the first post. Thats what we are discussing...not my opinions or anyone elses opinions in the the later posts.

Yeah sigh on you too...
Thing is that you keep saying that I'm not reading the first post when I even quoted the exact quote you replied to me with before you did.
Arguing about things not in the first post... well hello Mr. Narrowminded.
In this case the first post have flaws and therefore you have to bring out the flaws which in turn generates new discussions which is still on the same subject but not necessary brought up in the first post (they wouldn't be flaws then would they?).

Its also up to the player camping to respond to the player asking the questions.
There are cases where ppl do AFK-camping. If the person doesnt reply u in the next 10 minutes hes presumed as a AFK-camper. So at that time U can take the right upon u to claim the mob.

And AGAIN you managed to miss the entire point of the post... seriously I have no idea how you manage.

I'll put it real simple for you:

I have in no way gone against your "rules" at any time myself.
I'm in no way telling people to go an take artifacts without respect to the fellow players.
I haven't been farming any artifact because I'm greedy either. If I've done an artifact encounter it has been for my own use or for someone in my guild.

If he doesnt answere or his friends doesnt show up within the 10 minutes or so (just use your own judgment) just go ahead and take the artifact...

Now here is exactly what this is all about... some people who use their judgement end up being accused of artifact stealing and therefore it's needed to have some kind of standard for the "unwritten rules" which have been my point from the start (which you continue to miss and instead throw the exact same comments back at me).
The original poster did not bring up anything about a set time someone camping an artifact have to gather his group before its free for everyone else to go ahead and do the encounter.

This shows that this "unwritten rule" have flaws and that is what it's all about. The "unwritten rules" can in theory be exploited by some people which I've also tried to show but was ignored as "stop talking about bots and people who take 1hour to get their group together".
People lie, cheat and deceive to use the rules in their favour and that is why you have to limit the posibilities of people doing just that.
There shouldn't be any rules at all... just guidelines so not everyone whines about artifacts stealing even though they no way in hell could do the encounter in the nearest 10 hours themselves.

Now I can't be arsed to write anymore in this thread since it's absolutely pointless... Noone will ever change their mind in this matter and I guess it's up to each and every one to do what they want. But threatening players to do it your way, or else is not the way to go.

The End.

 

[Bluesky]

I am wondering if Vavires and bluesky is one of the farmers, so its a matter of greed behind this crap.

I really cba to reply to the rest of the stuff in here but this line is pure class - made me laugh out loud irl

Someone once said to me "Respect is earnt" but my reply was "I respect people until they give me a reason not to" - sadly (and not that people will care) but a few posters in this thread have my lost respect.

 

[Phoebee-v-]

sadly (and not that people will care) but a few posters in this thread have my lost respect.

Cause they follow the rules and not your rules?