A Unwritten Rule.

[vavires]

Don't know why you keep bothering, it's obvious the guy doesn't want to listen...

And I actually like the idea of abolishing camping. At any rate, camping only gives you the advantage of knowing an artefact is up first, that's it. For the rest it's up to each player individually to wait, or not wait, for someone who's standing at an encounter.

Can't we say the same about u?

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

I can only laugh about what some people say here (you know who you are), and what they claim to be right or not right.
Sure, the rules that are in the COC are there for a reason, but those rules are not the only rules you need to adhere. There are laws and there are social behavioural rules. The law does say that you shouldn't steal and you shouldn't kill etc, but doesn't say anything about spitting someone in the face. Still I don't see people walking around hurling saliva at other people.
If people do that they get a social punishment, in other words, they get a good verbal abuse and a punch in the face.
I don't see that being any different from what happens here. It's plainly a-social to steal a mob from someone who's been waiting there for quite some time. Should you do that anyway then expect to get some reprimandes. Being excluded from certain raids is one of those reprimandes.

And to those still whining about bots etc, please go back to the first post, and read it again, but now with your eyes open...

 

[vavires]

Good that only 2% thinks like me

https://forums.freddyshouse.com/showthread.php?t=182056

post 4 +7

 

[Skirne]

Actually there are laws against spitting people in the face. They are general laws, like the "try to behave nicely" in COC. Good luck with getting this trialed by GOA or any court.

 

[charmangle]

Just a thought...

Just a thought that occured to me here...

Since the few or so people who keep whining here about the thought of decent acting vs their fellow realm mates, (Basically do to your fellow realm mates as you would do to you best RL friend) why dont we just let everyone do as they wish ?

People who steal camped artis gets banned from all things organized by those who dont like that behaviour and everyone should be happy. Since the arguments are: We can easily organize the raids ourselves, You cant stop me from doing what ever I want, etc etc.

That way all should be happy. The people stealing artis wount mind since they will get their raids done in some other way and those who dont like that kind of behaviour are happy since they dont have to play alongside those without decency.

And then the whine should stop.

Basically a win win situation in my opinion and all gets what they want.


/Charmangle

ps. The guilds who gets banned from these raids easily gets the ban removed by just kicking or having a talk to the person doing the dirty deed so that shouldnt be a problem. Or if they condone that kind of action they can still just organize the raids themselves so no worries there either. ds.

 

[vavires]

Just a thought that occured to me here...

Since the few or so people who keep whining here about the thought of decent acting vs their fellow realm mates, (Basically do to your fellow realm mates as you would do to you best RL friend) why dont we just let everyone do as they wish ?

People who steal camped artis gets banned from all things organized by those who dont like that behaviour and everyone should be happy. Since the arguments are: We can easily organize the raids ourselves, You cant stop me from doing what ever I want, etc etc.

That way all should be happy. The people stealing artis wount mind since they will get their raids done in some other way and those who dont like that kind of behaviour are happy since they dont have to play alongside those without decency.

And then the whine should stop.

Basically a win win situation in my opinion and all gets what they want.


/Charmangle

ps. The guilds who gets banned from these raids easily gets the ban removed by just kicking or having a talk to the person doing the dirty deed so that shouldnt be a problem. Or if they condone that kind of action they can still just organize the raids themselves so no worries there either. ds.

nice thought.

 

[old.windforce]

nice thought.

stinks imo

 

[Belomar]

Good that only 2% thinks like me

https://forums.freddyshouse.com/showthread.php?t=182056

post 4 +7

I'm sorry, what are you on about? I can see you're kind of slow, but Raven's post in that thread refers to people adding in RvR, not "stealing" artifacts in PvE.

 

[vavires]

stinks imo

Not really
u get what u want then
we will do what we say anyway

 

[Limitless]

Nice attitude, will bring u far in live

It's just a game meight, a virtual world that dosent exist. If someone is camping an encounter then its lucky you have two zones to port to isnt it.

 

[Labbe]

Heh,

I dislike people that camps artifacts.
I for one that cannot play 24/7 like those artifact campers seems to be doing. If the mob is up and you have your 'crew' ready... By all means... just grab the artifact att invite the camper to bg se he atleast can have credit.

 

[Vandar]

You don’t get it ignorant pryd moron. You come from a happy happy joy joy server and we don’t. Do NOT come here with pathetic arrogant rules when you don’t have ANY idea what the history is on OUR server. The 2% you are talking about is from YOUR server. Add the 98% from our server and the % is getting close.

I will NEVER follow ANY rules made by some random guy/girl unless it’s about HIS raids/event. They DONT have that power.
Does that mean that I won’t do the "right" thing at artifacts?? No.
Get it ignorant little happy happy joy joy kid??

These rules will split mid more that it’s going to turn this into a server where everyone respect each other. I explained this in a post on one of the previous pages.
Vav and Blue it's very arrogant of you to think you can get this thru.

Rofl, the kid looses his rag.
Hope you get banned but I'd miss the rest of your drivel on this post

 

[Henx]

Thanks for the input Thorwyn, Old.windforce and Glenmoranige...

The whole ban thing was started at the CS encounter - I was roaming around, saw the encounter up (no one there) and asked alliance/guild if any would like to join in and got several replies. Then one guy stops by - have a group closer - told him politely to not pull - and ended up with the encounter got nicked even I as a ML9 Supp SM + BB could have taken it myself.

No camping, polite asking not to do things because I was there first and was helping friends, was ignored and that pissed me off.....

I agree with ya'll. I'm not for the camping - have taken down snake encounter myself that was up because a campbot didn't reply my PM and felt fine about it... So to me that is not the core issue...

The core issue is when people "steal" encounters, when you ARE ready and CAN do encounters, but wait until you can HELP friends....

Is one bad persons act enough to ban a guild? To me it is, if the guild doesn't care about people being selfish. Would I be pro lifting ban if they would have a talk with the person? I sure would....

TBH I do not think we are that fare apart in they way we look at things, but the focus on the camping aspect have grown way bigger than it really deserve.

And just for the record. The ban thing is the LAST solution, after trying to talk to the person, the guild, the guildmaster and maybe some of his friends that I know.... I really think it is sad every time someone gets banned from anything....

And about the "RULES" - think what spawned all of the extra guidelines to how you need act, is where the CoC simply didn't cover all the bases.

But as Charmangel - if people think I'm a jerk and dislike some of the raid leaders. The ban really doesn't make a difference. They probably do not show for the raids anyways and I'm convinced that they won't group with me either... So no contact, no changes... To me that is just not the best solution.

 

[Erulin]

If I see someone "camping" an artifact I usualy give them 15 min to get their act together and do it, if not I WILL go for it if I know I have enough people to do it. I will invite them though and if it's a FFA lotto they are welcome to roll for it.

But the original poster I don't get it... WTF do you want ? I just stand my level 5 nakid toon at gov on auto run against a tree so he doesn't LD and I perma camp it while I spam the craft button on my second pc ? Forget it. 15 min is long enough to get enough people togheter for any artifact.

 

[vavires]

If I see someone "camping" an artifact I usualy give them 15 min to get their act together and do it, if not I WILL go for it if I know I have enough people to do it. I will invite them though and if it's a FFA lotto they are welcome to roll for it.

But the original poster I don't get it... WTF do you want ? I just stand my level 5 nakid toon at gov on auto run against a tree so he doesn't LD and I perma camp it while I spam the craft button on my second pc ? Forget it. 15 min is long enough to get enough people togheter for any artifact.

again u speak of a bot...
i never did...

O and atleast ure fair and dont nick it just away like some do without saying anything to the person camping/waiting for his crew, and also inviting him.

 

[Erulin]

again u speak of a bot...
i never did...

O and atleast ure fair and dont nick it just away like some do without saying anything to the person camping/waiting for his crew, and also inviting him.

Well, oke I'll run my level 39 scout into a tree then to camp gov... or one of my 50ties. I mean, I once ran passed an up Mad Scalar and a blue con (to my pally and my rejuv bimbo) harsly told me : "it's camped"

Around 30 or so min. later I pass back that way it's still up and the blue con's still there. Is that what you call "fair" against your realm mates ? I don't care if he was waiting for his guildies to wake up and log on, or for the bloody mob to die of old age but THAT is what I call "greed." If you can't do an arti you have no right camping it.

And no, I didn't go for the Scalars though I know a few people in my guild could have used them and/or credit.

Erulin the Bloody

<ps don't think I don't play mid-pyr, I only place 50ties in my sig >

 

[charmangle]

But the original poster I don't get it... WTF do you want ? I just stand my level 5 nakid toon at gov on auto run against a tree so he doesn't LD and I perma camp it while I spam the craft button on my second pc ? Forget it. 15 min is long enough to get enough people togheter for any artifact.

There are cases where ppl do AFK-camping. If the person doesnt reply u in the next 10 minutes hes presumed as a AFK-camper. So at that time U can take the right upon u to claim the mob.

Whats so hard to understand about that ? Have you really read the original post ?

/Charmangle

ps. Wouldnt it just be easier if all atleast try to read through the posts they reply to...sigh ds.

 

[Erulin]

Whats so hard to understand about that ? Have you really read the original post ?

/Charmangle

ps. Wouldnt it just be easier if all atleast try to read through the posts they reply to...sigh ds.

I did read the original post and I'm not talking about AFK camping... read my post above yours

Erulin the Bloody

 

[Henx]

Around 30 or so min. later I pass back that way it's still up and the blue con's still there.

TBH mate - I would have asked who he had incomming to help him sinse the encounter wasn't taken. If he couldn't give me a few names that I could pm to crosscheck it was true. I would have asked him to join for a FFA lotto on the artifact and klompfed the critter....

I he had refused to join after that long, and couldn't tell you who was incomming, and didn't want to join up, then he really isn't camping it in the "sense of camping" - he is blocking the artifact - and I would have killed the MS snake.

The "rule" isn't to prevent others from getting stuff - but to ensure that people waiting for an encounter, and when it pop ASAP gets the help he/she needs and get on with it, and when getting help it isn't grab right as the friends are arriving.

There is no way in the treed that anybody supports "holding" and artifact for that long. As I recollect most would agree that 10-15 min is more than enough to give proof that you have a suitable group incomming for the encounter. If the "camper" can't provide that, then I see no reason why not to let him wait until it pops again.

 

[charmangle]

But...

I did read the original post and I'm not talking about AFK camping... read my post above yours

Erulin the Bloody

Okay I might have read to much into: On sprint towards a tree so he doesnt ld, crafting at his other keyboard. (That is AFK = Away from keyboard which he basically has to be since he is on another keyboard to get into some pointless semantics)

With the use of some common sense (which you already shown with the first part of your post you do exactly as you wrote. Which im pretty sure is how the original poster means his post.

You give the camper a couple of mins to answere/gather his posse (10-15 mins seems about right which the original poster mentioned) if he cant do that you just politly invite him to join for encounter and do it yourself.

/Charmangle

ps. Its not rocket sience its just common politeness that most of us show every day in RL. You dont barge ahead in lines, pick merchandise out of peoples hands etc. It would just be nice to see some people actually show that they are playing in a realm together not against eachother. ds.

 

[Erulin]

To be honest had said blue con asked me or had told me a bit more polite I would have gladly killed the snake for him. I've done it for enough people in the past, even while my other account was on stick running towards ml7 for a BG raid (with my mincer and a fluffy buffed sally pet to aid me that is. <--- not as easy as it sounds with the "can't attack from this distance" crap)

Erulin the Bloody

<<ps. Its not rocket sience its just common politeness that most of us show every day in RL. You dont barge ahead in lines, pick merchandise out of peoples hands etc. It would just be nice to see some people actually show that they are playing in a realm together not against eachother. ds.>>

That I agree with, I come from a US roleplay server and I must say it was quit different there. I saw more then one cleric suicide in the old Hadrians Wall to come rezz a group at the tanglers... before all the whiny albs got 'em nerfed cause cabby's could solo them.

 

[Thorwyn]

You give the camper a couple of mins to answere/gather his posse (10-15 mins seems about right which the original poster mentioned) if he cant do that you just politly invite him to join for encounter and do it yourself.

Right...
and since you´re so eager to tell people to read the initial post and stuff, would you care to tell me where exactly we can see this 10-15 minute buffer "rule" in the post? I can´t seem to find it. It´s something you came up with during the evolution of this discussion. Maybe if you´re postulating rules in the future, you might want to make sure you actually know what you´re up to.

And would you further please explain, what´s gonna happen if the group passing by is giving the camper a 10 minute buffer when he needs 15? Or 16? Or maybe 20? Who´s in charge of judging situaions like this?

Its not rocket sience its just common politeness that most of us show every day in RL. You dont barge ahead in lines, pick merchandise out of peoples hands etc. It would just be nice to see some people actually show that they are playing in a realm together not against eachother.

You´re still unable to grasp the concept that politeness and courtesy is something that´s either happening naturally, or not at all and that you can´t enforce it. Oh, sorry, of course you´re not trying to enforce anything with your rules and punishments and scaring off and banning, eh Pilate? Of course, banning entire guilds for the actions of single people is ok in your books. People, who don´t have anything to do with you and your twisted obsession for artifacts. And you´re telling me that you´re doing this in the name of good spirit and atmosphere? Quite obviously, your own ideas are more important to you than treating your realmmates in a fair way.
Fountain of hipocrisy.

 

[Torstig]

I have read all posts now.. wasn't fun or needed but else I probably would get flamed.

I don't have time to camp artis but I have friends that are ok with helping me do a arti when I am online and if I'm lucky the arti I need will be up.
People that camp an arti for several hours and claim it's theirs because of it, is in some way stealing the artifact, because they are not making it able for me to pull. Doesn't matter if it's a lvl 20 or 50, they are stealing the ability for me to be able to get an artifact couse of that they can play more then me.

If there was no campers we wouldnt have this problem and it would be obvious that the first one to pull own the mob and arti unless they fail. There is campers couse they wan't to have the opportunity to pull it quick, before anyone else knows about it. I think everyone is ok with ppl spending several hours camping a spawn to have the advantage of knowing about the pop first but it doesn't make the arti theirs. The "unwritten rules" is just giving those that are able to camp even more benefits then the fact that they will know about the spawn first. That's not bringing anything good for the realm or the community in my oppinion as long as the oppinions are split. The unwritten rules only works when everyone agrees on it.

By using rules like this you make it harder for the newcommer community of our realm and you also split the realm in two. So I can't see how this would bring better friendship for the ppl on mid eng cluster as it is. It's better to accept the facts and try to do the best of those bad situations you are trying to get rid of with these direct rules. Play with the evulotion and apply new rules when the population is ready for it. Otherwise you will be one of those working against it and probably bringing a bad taste in the mouth of the ppl in the community when you show yourself.

Summary: I think its a good thought and nice idea but it doesnt seem like the time is right and the people ain't ready for it yet. Keep beeing kind and think of the best for the realm instead of the inviduals and you might be able to apply the unwritten rules one day.

 

[charmangle]

Can you please just stick to the subject at hand ?

Right...
and since you´re so eager to tell people to read the initial post and stuff, would you care to tell me where exactly we can see this 10-15 minute buffer "rule" in the post? I can´t seem to find it. It´s something you came up with during the evolution of this discussion. Maybe if you´re postulating rules in the future, you might want to make sure you actually know what you´re up to.

And would you further please explain, what´s gonna happen if the group passing by is giving the camper a 10 minute buffer when he needs 15? Or 16? Or maybe 20? Who´s in charge of judging situaions like this?



You´re still unable to grasp the concept that politeness and courtesy is something that´s either happening naturally, or not at all and that you can´t enforce it. Oh, sorry, of course you´re not trying to enforce anything with your rules and punishments and scaring off and banning, eh Pilate? Of course, banning entire guilds for the actions of single people is ok in your books. People, who don´t have anything to do with you and your twisted obsession for artifacts. And you´re telling me that you´re doing this in the name of good spirit and atmosphere? Quite obviously, your own ideas are more important to you than treating your realmmates in a fair way.
Fountain of hipocrisy.

You have no concept of what is beeing discussed or any kind of process the written meanings of the posts and still you keep repeating things like a parrot just copying what he has no understanding off.

Which im pretty sure is how the original poster means his post.

Its been repeaed over and over in this thread that what he meant was 10-15 minutes wait then you go and get it done. If I explain one thing in a post I would prefere not to have to repeat it in every response to you.

Hypocricy ?
How can treating your fellow realm mates as MATES be hypocricy ?

Enforcing ?
So you would like to FORCE (read ENFORCE) the realm to abide by your rules to play with everyone and help them even though they keep treating you like crap ?

Im saying: Let everyone play as they like as long as its within CoC and you are saying: Only those stealing artifacts have the right to choose when to be nice to their realmmates or not. And you are calling me the Hypocrit ? Are you really sure you have spent enough brainpower on this canundrum ?

/Charmangle

 

[Thorwyn]

How can treating your fellow realm mates as MATES be hypocricy ?

You don´t get it, do you? If you´re banning entire guilds from raids, then you´re treating those, who´ve got NOTHING to do with you and your crap exactly like the ones that are getting on your tits. That´s - at least in my book, unfair and yes, that´s hipocrisy when it´s coming together with a "oh, it´s all for the good of the realm" mantra.

Are you really sure you have spent enough brainpower on this canundrum ?

Yup, definitely more than you, mate.

 

[charmangle]

Summary: I think its a good thought and nice idea but it doesnt seem like the time is right and the people ain't ready for it yet. Keep beeing kind and think of the best for the realm instead of the inviduals and you might be able to apply the unwritten rules one day.

Nice post with really nice arguments and no mudslinging! Gotto love the end too!

Anyway...well to give you an example from RL...would you like it if there were no one respecting a Cue in the world ? Its not against the law to cut in line but its considered bad form. And if everyone did it what would the stores look like ?

Ive seen 3-4 posts now seeing it as splitting the realm, what you dont understand is that the realm is already on the verge of total split. Prydwen people are starting to dispise excal people for their way of playing the game. Ive already heared ALOT of suggestions that prydwen should only use its own forums and plan raids etc on just to exclude those not wanting to play the game as they do.

What vavi was trying here was to try to mend this already huge crack between the servers. But since those few excal people I have seen answering here, to say the least, dont like the idea then in my humble opinion we should all just go back to playing as we wish.

Those who want to steal artifacts do that and the guild/alliance/raidleaders of prydwen just ban those guilds/players from their events...that way atleast each server gets what they want...excal gets to do as they like it and prydwen gets to play without Big Brother!

/Charmangle

 

[vavires]

Well, oke I'll run my level 39 scout into a tree then to camp gov... or one of my 50ties. I mean, I once ran passed an up Mad Scalar and a blue con (to my pally and my rejuv bimbo) harsly told me : "it's camped"

Around 30 or so min. later I pass back that way it's still up and the blue con's still there. Is that what you call "fair" against your realm mates ? I don't care if he was waiting for his guildies to wake up and log on, or for the bloody mob to die of old age but THAT is what I call "greed." If you can't do an arti you have no right camping it.

And no, I didn't go for the Scalars though I know a few people in my guild could have used them and/or credit.

Erulin the Bloody

<ps don't think I don't play mid-pyr, I only place 50ties in my sig >

But i said in the very first post mate If u arrive there and its up, it has to be done Either by him and inc ppl, but i never said u can camp forever. just give the person a bit time if he sais hes gathering ppl, ask if u can join or ure guildies. if he just keep sitting there doing nothing, then its urs, because then indeed hes being greedy.

 

[TommyJ]

Think ppl need to be reminded that we are not only talking about camping ppl here.. its very simple if there is someone at the spot before you got to the mob then you dont just pull the mob then you go and ask him if he is gonnar do it or not.. its not polite to pull the mob if the person have some of his friends or guildies inc or just is getting rdy to deal with the mob on his own and then because of your greed you just pull it right before his eyes

And when someone says "unwritten rules" we really mean that you should treat others with respect and be polite to them.. just as you proberly would hold the door for a girlfriend or any stranger so the door dont smash up in their face..

Pulling a mob right in front of someone who is getting rdy to deal with the mob isnt very polite and is no way near paying respect to your realm mates

 

[charmangle]

Entire guilds, not having anything to do with it...

You don´t get it, do you? If you´re banning entire guilds from raids, then you´re treating those, who´ve got NOTHING to do with you and your crap exactly like the ones that are getting on your tits. That´s - at least in my book, unfair and yes, that´s hipocrisy when it´s coming together with a "oh, it´s all for the good of the realm" mantra.

Entire guilds/anythign to do with it...
You ban people who dont have the same values as you do since you dont want to help them since you dont think they would ever help you. If a guild dont mind their members behaving in one way it means that they condone that behaviour and in extension thats the kind of people you dont want to play with, hence you dont help them. You start helping them the second they just explain to you that you DO have the same views and values and they would like to play with you.

I dont understand how you can say: Its okay to play as you wish when stealing artifacts but its not okay for someone else to choose whom they want to PLAY WITH in THEIR BG ? Isnt that all players right ? To choose whom to help and whom not to ?

And yes its just as bad...noone ever said it wasnt...its exactly the same...thats the whole point...all having the same rights.

Yup, definitely more than you, mate.

Hmm...seems easier just to jott it down than actually prove in argument doesnt it ?

/Charmangle

 

[old.windforce]

I have read all posts now.. wasn't fun or needed but else I probably would get flamed.

I don't have time to camp artis but I have friends that are ok with helping me do a arti when I am online and if I'm lucky the arti I need will be up.
People that camp an arti for several hours and claim it's theirs because of it, is in some way stealing the artifact, because they are not making it able for me to pull. Doesn't matter if it's a lvl 20 or 50, they are stealing the ability for me to be able to get an artifact couse of that they can play more then me.

If there was no campers we wouldnt have this problem and it would be obvious that the first one to pull own the mob and arti unless they fail. There is campers couse they wan't to have the opportunity to pull it quick, before anyone else knows about it. I think everyone is ok with ppl spending several hours camping a spawn to have the advantage of knowing about the pop first but it doesn't make the arti theirs. The "unwritten rules" is just giving those that are able to camp even more benefits then the fact that they will know about the spawn first. That's not bringing anything good for the realm or the community in my oppinion as long as the oppinions are split. The unwritten rules only works when everyone agrees on it.

By using rules like this you make it harder for the newcommer community of our realm and you also split the realm in two. So I can't see how this would bring better friendship for the ppl on mid eng cluster as it is. It's better to accept the facts and try to do the best of those bad situations you are trying to get rid of with these direct rules. Play with the evulotion and apply new rules when the population is ready for it. Otherwise you will be one of those working against it and probably bringing a bad taste in the mouth of the ppl in the community when you show yourself.

Summary: I think its a good thought and nice idea but it doesnt seem like the time is right and the people ain't ready for it yet. Keep beeing kind and think of the best for the realm instead of the inviduals and you might be able to apply the unwritten rules one day.

couldn't have said it better