A contructive apprasel of Alb RVR performance post 1.60

[Vasconcelos]

Originally posted by <Harle>
sorry for the name-edit, i had to manually do the second quote since i was quoting someone else first and couldn'T be bothered scrolling down. Didn't mean to offend anyone.

Ok

Originally posted by <Harle>
Every post that is saying how uber wardens are mentions insta-pbt as being oh sooo uber. I don't see the issue here, yet still it is being mentioned, and imo if you don't want to run around with pbt all the time and have fear of being interrupted at the start of a combat then QC it. btw, on that Mentalist thing: the Mentalist-TL even mentioned one encounter where he used MoC to continueously heal himslef, which safed him there, so maybe a QC-heal might buy you that one precious second, but we are getting off-topic here.

Well, as u said this is off-topic. But, you was the 1st who mentioned the mentalist quickast thingy so...... im not even consider the topic of a mentalist quickasting heals, neither with moc coz its simply something u see once in a decade.

Originally posted by <Harle>
Single-root is not on a 30-min timer. Timered RAs are not something you can consider when comparing class-balance.
And by saying root is a valid form of CC i don'T mean you can leave your sorc at home and try to single-root the whole inc enemy fg. You can single-root the tank charging at you though.

Agree with the part of RAs. Again, single-root is an emergency add-on but NOT support CC.

Originally posted by <Harle>
Yes, parry can be an advantage, when it finally gets fixed in RvR - your point was ?

I didnt have any point. Moreover, i was trying to stress how a statement like Parry on Wardens or IC-value on theurs epic are totally stupid.

Originally posted by <Harle>
It always depends on the knowledge of the enemy who is taken out first. It happened to me lots of times that I was taken down by the enemies even before our mages, because they wanted to get rid of pbt.

It depends, but ALLWAYS casters = public enemies nº1, KILL KILL KILL em 1st. Doesnt apply it on a warden firby with scale n shield.

Originally posted by <Harle>
You brought in the friar, I said you were wrong, Friar can get healing-RAs ( you forget about Wild Healing btw, but that seems to be the common approach in this discussion: forget the good stuff and only mention the crap-stuff on your own classes, so you look really gimped).

Agree, completly off-topic, but the fact is that there isn't many friars with those RAs as there isnt any Wardens with Maestry of Rain of Anihilation, Maestry of the Arcane.....

Originally posted by <Harle>
btw: who is here to judge what is important on a pbt-class ? In your first post you mentioned Wardens having an uninterruptable melee-attack... i mean, damn, they are uber!!!
Don't try to tell me I have to be serious please...

Well, im gonna try to focus ur next somments into my 1st statements:

PBT:

Wardens have insta-pbt. Theurgs have 4sec casting time pbt, which even with quickasting is a lot of time in rvr (and QC has a timer). From a logic point of view, wardens have the advantage here.

Damage:

Theurgs have baseline nukes n specc pets (who inflict decent damage but drags a lot of mana if u have pbt on). Wardens have low melee atack. Theurgs atacks are interruptable, while wardens can interrupt casters spells with their mele. Therugs have the advantage in this issue as they can deal higher damage.

Armor Type:

Theurgs wear cloth. Wardens scale. Wardens have the advantage here.

Hps:

Theurgs have low low hps. Wardens have higher hps + the ocasional IP.

Support Abilities:

Theurgs have damage/haste buffs n single root (for really special situations). Wardens have heals, resurrect, resists n buffs. Again, from a logic point of view, wardens take the advantage here.

Realm Abilities:

Theurgs have nuker RAs (which can slightly improve their damage). Wardens have some support RAs like Thornweed Field or Armor of Faith. Pretty balanced here.



OK. Theurgs have Quickcast, Focus n better IC-epicarmor value (omg cant believe im writting this). Now compare that with the things above.



And now:

My opinion about the initial topic: albion isnt gimmped as much as sum1 thinks. Moreover, some albs classes are really great (friars, cabbys, infils, mincers,.....). But, prolly the WORST class (sub-class) of the game is the Earth Therug.

And yes, as Novas said, air theurgs are extremely nice.

 

[Tigerius]

Originally posted by <Harle>
Well, tbh it is not really a joke, I'm just following the examples of others in this thread. Both my posts here are just modified copied of previous posts, which were, as you put it, not essential, narrowminded and factignoring. It's funny how my post offends you, while the others were just overlooked. The whole discussion is just another example of "the grass looks greener on the other side".

Just taking the piss then, that's fine. If you were seriously intended about that I would have gone home and cried
Complaining about faulty Alb posts is something I'm counting on Hibs to do, maybe I should in the name of objectivity but pretty much counted on others for that

er

don't choke on the irony of you calling anyone narrowminded please.

actually please do

your hypocritical bullshit is getting tiresome

Feel free to point it out, aside from a few points where I've readily admitted it myself, I don't speak hypocritical bullshit. The few times I do, I feeel it's needed as a counterpart to the unobjective arguments posted so far. As I'm sure you understand, it's no point being perfectivly objective and honest when all whoever you are arguing with is to blow his own horn.

 

[Novamir]

what noaim said (without the insults).

 

[old.Filip]

by reading the last post's it seem's like the theug's live longer than the wardens in rvr ...

you guys think thats a correct picture of how rvr is out from these boards ?

Filip
Minser of HB

(i think theug's are 1 of best class's in albion... but not becuase of pbt ...)

 

[Amadon]

Originally posted by Tigerius

Feel free to point it out, aside from a few points where I've readily admitted it myself, I don't speak hypocritical bullshit. The few times I do, I feeel it's needed as a counterpart to the unobjective arguments posted so far. As I'm sure you understand, it's no point being perfectivly objective and honest when all whoever you are arguing with is to blow his own horn.

how do you point out narrowmindedness to the subject?

your posts on class balance are extremely biased, to the point where they ignore facts that don't suit you, not even acknowledging the facts, but ignoring them in the hope that your ignorance thereof will rub off on the readers of your posts presumably.
You then go and accuse Harle of
myopia (excuse the metaphor) - which in and of itself is hypocritical given that you missed the sarcasm, which indicates myopia in the inability to understand a fairly simple communication because it lies counter to your opinion.

Harle's post was pointing out how overboard some people have gone in their analysis of the class balance, and you attacked him because his perspective doesn't agree with yours - and your very attack accuses him of narrowmindedness. From my perspective the hypocrasy in that is clearly evident.

 

[Jiggs]

pbt theurgist problem is two-fold

1. air theurgist is 100 times better.

2. its extremely hard for a group to protect a caster who has extremely bad offense.

people who dont play albion have absolutely NO CONCEPT of this idea of a caster which has virtually no offense, in albion there are there are potentially two: mind sorcerers and pbt theurgists

i can put it this way: imagine the pbt line for hibs was moved into enchanter's enchantment spec,

now what the hell would a 45enchantments spec enchanter do?

how would he kill his enemies?

how can you protect him?

its not easy is it....


finally with BoF, spec Af buffs and plate there is no way in hell mythic will make 6sec pbt viable for albion, albion groups are always gimped offensively, but they can be extremely hard to kill when RAs etc are up.

 

[piggeman]

I still don't get it why people keep says zerk is overpowered blabla. From my personal experiance and MY point of view, is that Savages (h2h spec) is allready better then berserk in patch 1.60.

Me and my brother have a lvl 50 savage together. When we attack a caster, they will of course run their ass of. But when savage attack them and they turn their back on us -> BAM 4 sec stunn -> caster dead within one or two styles. A good caster can still get away from a berserk, but hardly from a h2h savage when their purge is down.

 

[Jergiot]

Originally posted by Sharp Thing
funny as i remember i 3shot you a couple of times lately....

funny i remember doing the same to u. and u think ur special cause u 3 hit me? i get friggin 3 hitted by every chanter. debuff nuke nuke nuke.....dont matter what my heat resist is against a chanter now is it?

no, there are some who dont know how to play their class in all realms, but albs has allot more of these ppl, just check out everyday alb rvr, most alb grps dont even form a challenge, and some mid grps are easy. i wait for ppl to log on so i know il be in a GOOD grp with the right classes and having fun instead of running around with no healing, no speed and 6tanks in rvr and logging off pissed. i play my game how i wanna play it, and so do you.

ye i do, i solo with scout and only play sorc with my regular grp, or ppl i know really well. when we meet hibs/mids in unbalanced grps i dont feel the urge to come to BW and putting them down or whatever. Get my point?

 

[poi]

http://www.tyfud.net/Blitzkrieg.zip

look how a good savage is doing in RvR..not bad

 

[Jergiot]

Originally posted by <Harle>
Diferences between wardens n earth theurgs:

Theurgs
Quickcast ability
Single-target and aoe-CC-spells
Mana-cost reduction through focus-staffs
Castable dmg-add and haste-buff
One caster among many in the group
Best IC-value epic-armor in the whole game
Access to the usual caster-RAs

Wardens
no Quickcast
no CC
no focus
same baseline buffs as Bard
Only one with kite-shield in hib-group, very obvious epic-armor skin
Worst IC-value epic-armor in the whole game
No access to healing-RAs

Now judge by yourself the utility of both support characters.

and u are stupid.

 

[-frostor-]

Originally posted by piggeman
A good caster can still get away from a berserk.

tell me how a caster with limited end can run away from a zerker with unlimited end

dont say mez/stun him , because all tanks have 2/3 even 4 determination wich makes it useless

 

[<Harle>]

Originally posted by Jergiot
and u are stupid.

sometimes it helps reading the whole thread, instead of trying to throw in a smart comment and then ending up looking, well, VERY stupid yourself

 

[Tigerius]

Originally posted by Amadon
how do you point out narrowmindedness to the subject?

your posts on class balance are extremely biased, to the point where they ignore facts that don't suit you, not even acknowledging the facts, but ignoring them in the hope that your ignorance thereof will rub off on the readers of your posts presumably.
You then go and accuse Harle of
myopia (excuse the metaphor) - which in and of itself is hypocritical given that you missed the sarcasm, which indicates myopia in the inability to understand a fairly simple communication because it lies counter to your opinion.

Harle's post was pointing out how overboard some people have gone in their analysis of the class balance, and you attacked him because his perspective doesn't agree with yours - and your very attack accuses him of narrowmindedness. From my perspective the hypocrasy in that is clearly evident.

Again, which posts on class balance?

I was clearly hoping Harle WAS indeed ironic, but I wasn't confident given the stupidity of some previous posts. The fact that I considered his intentionally narrowminded ironical joke narrowminded does not make me an evident hypocrit. If you wish to refer to any other post I've made feel free to do so, but don't just blow up smoke.

 

[Tranquil-]

Originally posted by Tigerius
but don't just blow up smoke.

But that's what Amadon does well. If you're good at something, why stop?

(I'm sorry, but I just couldn't resist that snipe. <hug>)

 

[noaim]

Originally posted by Novamir
what noaim said (without the insults).

Was only 1 insult there

And it will be interested to see an alb reply...if any of them will reply...which I doubt.

(btw did I really make sense?)

 

[noaim]

Originally posted by -frostor-
tell me how a caster with limited end can run away from a zerker with unlimited end

dont say mez/stun him , because all tanks have 2/3 even 4 determination wich makes it useless

QC root, if it so lasts for only 5 secs it is enough to get away.

And I really doubt a root on about 1 min will be reduced to less than 10 secs, and if the caster cant get away in 10 secs, tough luck, the caster did something wrong.

And if the zerker keeps chasing the caster with 10+ secs headstart, that is only a loss for the group you are facing.

Btw, Slam works well if you didnt know...just dont have your pallys sticking on tanks.

 

[noaim]

Originally posted by Jergiot

ye i do, i solo with scout and only play sorc with my regular grp, or ppl i know really well. when we meet hibs/mids in unbalanced grps i dont feel the urge to come to BW and putting them down or whatever. Get my point?

When hibs/mids lose cause of unbalanced groups they/we dont feel the urge to come here and whine about that we are gimped and that everyone else is overpowered. Get my point?

 

[Tranquil-]

In response to Noaims post.

The point is that some classes will be on top of the 'to-hit' list simply because the abilities of those classes are looked at as important to get out of the way quickly. Agreed? Good.

And aslong as the 3 realms have those important abilities spread out on different types of classes(high/low HP, good/bad armour, CC/noCC abilities), the realm who has important abilities on classes which are easier to kill than another realms class is at a disadvantage.

That is not an arguable point. It's just simple logics.

This means that direct class comparisons are inevitable and are needed when you look at total realm balance.

 

[noaim]

Originally posted by Tranquil-
In response to Noaims post.

The point is that some classes will be on top of the 'to-hit' list simply because the abilities of those classes are looked at as important to get out of the way quickly. Agreed? Good.

And aslong as the 3 realms have those important abilities spread out on different types of classes(high/low HP, good/bad armour, CC/noCC abilities), the realm who has important abilities on classes which are easier to kill than another realms class is at a disadvantage.

That is not an arguable point. It's just simple logics.

This means that direct class comparisons are inevitable and are needed when you look at total realm balance.

So why are you whining about earth theurgists then?
In that aspect, supp RM´s are just as bad.

And you didnt bring up the fact that you got end regen at the best defensive class in the game. Who gets targetted last? The pally, bard or shaman? And who will take a beating best?

 

[Tranquil-]

Originally posted by noaim
So why are you whining about earth theurgists then?
In that aspect, supp RM´s are just as bad.

And you didnt bring up the fact that you got end regen at the best defensive class in the game. Who gets targetted last? The pally, bard or shaman? And who will take a beating best?

All of that is true, the problem is that albion has both CC and PBT on casterclasses. Both lifesaving and very important, if not most important, abilities on casterclasses.

End regen is hardly lifesaving, atleast not to the extent PBT/Cc is.

 

[Tranquil-]

If you look at the number of the 'core' classes each realm 'has' to have in a group to achieve a balanced group, albion has the most.

This in addition to my previous post and the fact that more people which are considered as the core group(considered as needed for a balanced group) needs to coordinate their abilities than what is needed in the other realms is what gives albion the slight disadvantage.

That being said, a fully balanced alb group which has played with each other before is capable of competing against the other realms equivilent.

 

[tildson]

Guys, if you cant realize that the PBT-line of Albion cant compete with the other realm's(both hib's and mid's PBT-line are GOOD, alb's is NOT) - Then you may wanna think again.

And btw, baseline nukes is horrible if the target not is debuffed, and the ice-pet's nukes is resisted most of the times. Apparently it works like a lvl32 spell or something, otherwise it would be a decent spec due to the aoe-root.

My 2 cents

 

[noaim]

Originally posted by Tranquil-
All of that is true, the problem is that albion has both CC and PBT on casterclasses. Both lifesaving and very important, if not most important, abilities on casterclasses.

End regen is hardly lifesaving, atleast not to the extent PBT/Cc is.

As a zerk I rather have end regen than pbt tbh. Now our end regen isnt a similar issue atm, since we dont lose it when shammy dies, but you got the point so nm about that.

And I must say, if we didnt have instas, I would rather have CC on a class with QC, than on a class that can take some more damage but that do not have QC.

 

[Jergiot]

Originally posted by noaim
When hibs/mids lose cause of unbalanced groups they/we dont feel the urge to come here and whine about that we are gimped and that everyone else is overpowered. Get my point?

have u seen me whine about how gimpy alb grps are or that every1else is overpowered? i was talking about what SHARP was saying, not what every hib/mid was saying. get a fucking clue...

edit: only thing i whine about is thanes being gimped and needing love oh and See hidden ^^

 

[Tranquil-]

Originally posted by noaim
As a zerk I rather have end regen than pbt tbh. Now our end regen isnt a similar issue atm, since we dont lose it when shammy dies, but you got the point so nm about that.

And I must say, if we didnt have instas, I would rather have CC on a class with QC, than on a class that can take some more damage but that do not have QC.

The reason you mids would rather want end regen than PBT is because your groups are not dependant on caster classes abilities to the same extent alb groups are.

 

[noaim]

Originally posted by Jergiot
have u seen me whine about how gimpy alb grps are or that every1else is overpowered? i was talking about what SHARP was saying, not what every hib/mid was saying. get a fucking clue...

edit: only thing i whine about is thanes being gimped and needing love oh and See hidden ^^

Well point out where I said that _you_ come here and whine. Either that or, how was it, "get a fucking clue"?

 

[Jergiot]

Originally posted by noaim
Well point out where I said that _you_ come here and whine. Either that or, how was it, "get a fucking clue"?

lol u twat who whined, i was having an argument with sharp and no1 asked u to get in the middle. mind ur own fucking buisness instead.

 

[noaim]

Originally posted by Jergiot
lol u twat who whined, i was having an argument with sharp.

Ohh now I whined aswell, where did I do that?

 

[Jergiot]

Originally posted by noaim
Ohh now I whined aswell, where did I do that?

did i say that _YOU_ Whined? i was refering to myself.

 

[noaim]

Originally posted by Jergiot
did i say that _YOU_ Whined? i was refering to myself.

Sorry then, I misunderstood your poor english. Did you know of this little fella btw? , <---