A contructive apprasel of Alb RVR performance post 1.60

[censi]

well all in all that was a pretty good post.

I think the nail on the head point is that its just harder to make perfect alb groups.

We do have have it a lot easier on hib.

Basically if you have a bard and a druid you are pretty much set

 

[Trinilim]

Originally posted by kirennia
That group still won 3 out of 3 equal battles Goes to show I guess that not all hib/mid groups are as perfect as people make out (albs/mids AND hibs im refering to)

actually we didn't

It wasn't a group you were in kir

 

[Trinilim]

Originally posted by censi
I think the nail on the head point is that its just harder to make perfect alb groups.

precisely

 

[K0nah]

Originally posted by AbPoon
FC run in 1fg?

Only before they die by even numbers then bring 2fg and anyone else who will belive they died to 8 fg's

hehe, actually we usually find quite the opposite when we visit odins in a semi-balanced grp, wipe a fg or 2 of mids and watch out "herecomestehzerg!"

oh and btw who the fuck are <Aesirs blade> ?

 

[<Harle>]

Originally posted by Trinilim
An example would be that a warden gets:
Scale armor
Base buffs
Heals
PBT
Speed
Resists
Melee damage

 

[Mirhen Morkir]

Originally posted by Trinilim
Because in order to get to 6 second PBT, someone has to play possibly the single most boring character on daoc. And who plays a game to get bored?

Glad to see you realise how boring playing a warden is

But then again Wardens have to spec for 6sec PBT, if they don't they may as well delete the character and role a druid or guardian.

Warden is so dull, your best off being afk in RvR, not like your group would really care anyway as long a bubble and resists where up

 

[K0nah]

kinda tired of hibs trying to make wardens out to be some kinda gimped bubblebot, wtf is wrong with this spec???

34 weapon, 45 nurture, 33 regrowth, 8parry?

thats 6sec pbt, all but the last energy/spirit grp resist and a 307 spec heal!?

oh and more weaponskill than most paladins too...

 

[<Harle>]

kinda tired of albs trying to make theurgists out to be some kinda gimped bubblebot, wtf is wrong with this spec???

45 earth, 29 ice?

thats 6sec pbt, all earth/ice-pets and a 179 baseline-dd with pretty low variance?

oh, and some baseline-buffs that hib-classes would have to spec for...

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by <Harle>
kinda tired of albs trying to make theurgists out to be some kinda gimped bubblebot, wtf is wrong with this spec???

45 earth, 29 ice?

thats 6sec pbt, all earth/ice-pets and a 179 baseline-dd with pretty low variance?

oh, and some baseline-buffs that hib-classes would have to spec for...

you mean, that's 6s pbt, one ice pet and half a DD before you're out of mana

I admit that the warden will have the same problem with mana for heals, but he can drop his bubble between fights to regen and put it up the instant the fight starts again, also hitting things doesn't cost mana...

(I suppose the earth-spec theurg could cast his baseline buffs on himself - using up the mana he could use for the pet that is - and go bashing... but not very wise when you're wearing a cloth robe and an AVALONIAN TARGET sign above your head)

That and tank on warden != dead warden in two hits... tank on mezzed theurg = dead theurg before pbt kicks back in.
tank on mezzed warden = stupid leave the damned thing mezzed... but if you have to you'll be hitting him for quite some time.

 

[dakeyras]

Originally posted by mastade
In the "Standard" alb grp there are a bit more than 2 damage dealers?, almost ALL of your support chars can do a fine amount of damage.. the sorc, the mincer, the friar, the theurgh and i even the pally.. the support chars in i.e. hib cant do dam.. bards druids and wardens for instance, they are just PURE support, good support but thats all they are

Damage output of:

MindSorc/Mincer/earththeurg/pala/friar

vs

Hero/Hero/Hero/chanter/chanter


See the problem?

 

[Sharp Thing]

Originally posted by Jergiot
what makes u so much better then albs? im not seeing u owning SHIT in RvR.

funny as i remember i 3shot you a couple of times lately....

Originally posted by Jergiot
no ur right, all the hib players and mid players know everything about their class and what other classes are capable off. its just albs. poor rvr performance? hey atleast we play instead of waiting for our perfectly balanced 3fgs to log on. atleast we dont switch realms on same server to play the next fotm class and blame it on ppl being arrogant or whatever. u jumped ship and now ur trying to blame other albs for it. that makes u a twat. oh btw why are u still in hib? u should be rolling a savage on mid/excal by now.

no, there are some who dont know how to play their class in all realms, but albs has allot more of these ppl, just check out everyday alb rvr, most alb grps dont even form a challenge, and some mid grps are easy. i wait for ppl to log on so i know il be in a GOOD grp with the right classes and having fun instead of running around with no healing, no speed and 6tanks in rvr and logging off pissed. i play my game how i wanna play it, and so do you.

 

[Vasconcelos]

Diferences between wardens n earth theurgs:

Theurgs

x1 specc points
Castable pbt
Cloth Armor
Crap Hps
Decent Damaging Range Atacks (nukes+pets)
Their atack is interruptable
Avalonian+Staff = bull-eye target over their heads
Only one type of support ability = PBT + damage/haste buffs
Root
Realm Abilities = nothing noticiable (common nukers RAs + Siege Bolt )


Wardens

x1.5 specc points
Instant PBT
Scale Armor
Pretty High Hps +IP
Low Damage Mele Atacks (weapon+parry)
Their mele atack isn't interruptable
Firbolg/Celt + sword/shield = look like tanks
Multiple Support Abilities = PBT, Heals, Resurrect, Buffs, Resists
Snare (through RA)
Realm Abilities = IP, Thornweed Field, Armor of Faith


Now judge by yourself the utility of both support characters.

 

[Sharp Thing]

Originally posted by Vasconcelos
Ah! So you was a crappy albion/excal player but when u decided to roll a FoTM chanter in hib you suddenly became elite!!! :great:

said the infil :great:

 

[Tigerius]

Originally posted by Sharp Thing
funny as i remember i 3shot you a couple of times lately....

Sign of true skill, debuff, DD, DD, DD.

no, there are some who dont know how to play their class in all realms, but albs has allot more of these ppl, just check out everyday alb rvr, most alb grps dont even form a challenge, and some mid grps are easy. i wait for ppl to log on so i know il be in a GOOD grp with the right classes and having fun instead of running around with no healing, no speed and 6tanks in rvr and logging off pissed. i play my game how i wanna play it, and so do you.

So what you're saying is that these Albs don't know how to play their class because they don't sit around and wait for the ideal group? I know I personally wouldn't RvR without a evenly balanced group but fgs who are you to tell people they are less skilled just because they prefer to get right out into the action. Impatient maybe, nothing else.

 

[Sharp Thing]

Originally posted by Tigerius

Sign of true skill, debuff, DD, DD, DD.

daoc has skill????

Originally posted by Tigerius
So what you're saying is that these Albs don't know how to play their class because they don't sit around and wait for the ideal group? I know I personally wouldn't RvR without a evenly balanced group but fgs who are you to tell people they are less skilled just because they prefer to get right out into the action. Impatient maybe, nothing else.

most albs that run around in random grps dont know how to play their chars, some do but its worthless bc its a shitty grp

 

[dakeyras]

Originally posted by Sharp Thing

most albs that run around in random grps dont know how to play their chars, some do but its worthless bc its a shitty grp

And that don't know how to play their chars reroll diff realm on same server to play in easy mode.

 

[Jiggs]

i killed you plenty of times, you are a noob player imo.

your positional and tactical approach to FG confrontation lacks any intelligence beyond moving in your pbaoe unit.

when you dont have those other chanters around you struggle to play well.

Look at other realm pbaoe players: magmatic, kranez, that SM dude (crazy is it?) these guys eat you for breakfast tactically when you consider they are frequently the only pbaoer in their groups and they dont have a snaring pet and cant debuff their baseline nukes.

 

[<Harle>]

Diferences between wardens n earth theurgs:

Theurgs
Quickcast ability
Single-target and aoe-CC-spells
Mana-cost reduction through focus-staffs
Castable dmg-add and haste-buff
One caster among many in the group
Best IC-value epic-armor in the whole game
Access to the usual caster-RAs

Wardens
no Quickcast
no CC
no focus
same baseline buffs as Bard
Only one with kite-shield in hib-group, very obvious epic-armor skin
Worst IC-value epic-armor in the whole game
No access to healing-RAs

Now judge by yourself the utility of both support characters.

 

[Tigerius]

I hope that's a joke Harle? If not it deserves an award for least essential, most narrowminded, most factignoring class comparison of the month.

 

[Jiggs]

hmm who cares tbh, with the increasing use of /assist among tanks pbt is largely irrevelant these days in high rr confrontations

its very good against lower realm rank groups and for keeping your MoC pbaoe casters going for an extra cast or two

pbt is certainly not what it once was thats for sure

 

[Vasconcelos]

Originally posted by <Harle>
Diferences between wardens n earth theurgs:

Theurgs
Quickcast ability
Single-target and aoe-CC-spells
Mana-cost reduction through focus-staffs
Castable dmg-add and haste-buff
One caster among many in the group
Best IC-value epic-armor in the whole game
Access to the usual caster-RAs

Wardens
no Quickcast
no CC
no focus
same baseline buffs as Bard
Only one with kite-shield in hib-group, very obvious epic-armor skin
Worst IC-value epic-armor in the whole game
No access to healing-RAs

Now judge by yourself the utility of both support characters.

1. Why on earth a warden would need Quickcast?? To quickast heals?? That doesnt exist in DAOC, even for healing classes.
2. You consider single-target root proper rvr CC or simply an add-on?? Aoe-Root on ice line cannot be taken into consideration as if u want to specc 6sec pbt u need to deal with a lvl 20th aoe-root (which is resisted loads n has low duration). So, i didnt even take it into consider as even support CC (but if u re-read my post u would see single root appears in opposition of warden's ae-snare RA)
3. Why on earth a warden would need focus?? Heal Focus?? Another stuff that doesnt exist in this game.
4. Still buffs.
5. "One caster among in the group". This is not an advantage but a disadvantage as ur are the main target!!!!!
6. "Best IC-value epic-armor". Is that sumkind of a joke??
6. "Very obvious epic-armor skin". Another joke
7. "No access to healing RAs". You are not a druid. Following your own statement, a friar is gimped coz he doesnt have ne Healing-RAs.
8. Damage/Haste buffs. Ok, edited my last post n included those.
9. "Acces to usual caster RAs". No utility for a support character.


Pls, try to view both earth theurgs n wardens as SUPPORT-PBT classes and compare again.

 

[walkerb]

from what ive seen of alb excal rvr groups they are way to caster heavy(wich might be nice when leeching from zerg), instead of using mercs etc

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by <Harle>
very obvious epic-armor skin

have you seen theurgist robes?

 

[<Harle>]

Originally posted by Tigerius
I hope that's a joke Harle? If not it deserves an award for least essential, most narrowminded, most factignoring class comparison of the month.

Well, tbh it is not really a joke, I'm just following the examples of others in this thread. Both my posts here are just modified copied of previous posts, which were, as you put it, not essential, narrowminded and factignoring. It's funny how my post offends you, while the others were just overlooked. The whole discussion is just another example of "the grass looks greener on the other side".

Originally posted by Vaswhatver
1. Why on earth a warden would need Quickcast?? To quickast heals?? That doesnt exist in DAOC, even for healing classes.
2. You consider single-target root proper rvr CC or simply an add-on?? Aoe-Root on ice line cannot be taken into consideration as if u want to specc 6sec pbt u need to deal with a lvl 30's aoe-root (which is resisted loads n has low duration). So, i didnt even take it into consider as even support CC (but if u re-read my post u would see it appears in opposition of warden's snare RA)
3. Why on earth a warden would need focus?? Heal Focus?? Another stuff that doesnt exist in this game.
4. Still buffs.
5. "One caster among in the group". This is not an advantage but a disadvantage as ur are the main target!!!!!
6. "Best IC-value epic-armor". Is that sumkind of a joke??
6. "Very obvious epic-armor skin". Another joke
7. "No access to healing RAs". You are not a druid. Following your own statement, a friar is gimped coz he doesnt have ne Healing-RAs.
8. Damage/Haste buffs. Ok, edited my last post n included those.
9. "Acces to usual caster RAs". No utility for a support character.


Pls, try to view both earth theurgs n wardens as SUPPORT-PBT classes and compare again.

1. Warden has insta-pbt, you could just QC your pbt, same result, at the end of the day it's running when the fight starts. And btw: Mentalists can QC-heals, and it has saved many a Mentalists life.
2. Yes, single-target root is a valid form of RvR-CC - at least in hib, since there is no aoe-root here anyway ( and pls don'T try to come with nature-druids)
3. Focus reduces mana-cost for spells you cast. Since mana-drain seems to be the biggest issue of pbt-classes it might be nice to have reduced mana-cost on your spells.
4. ...
5. how can you be main target, if you are not the only one ? Point is the enemy will not be able to tell which one of those casters is the theurg ( unless you start spamming pets right from the start)
6. No joke. Someone took the time to set up a table showing the imbue-cost-values of all epic armors in the game.
7. Actually Friars have access to healing-RAs
8.


btw: I'm not trying to make the Warden look bad or make the Theurg look uber. I think both are well balanced, and I'm just tired about the usual pbt-whine from albs.

 

[Vasconcelos]

Originally posted by <Harle>
Well, tbh it is not really a joke, .......
........btw: I'm not trying to make the Warden look bad or make the Theurg look uber. I think both are well balanced, and I'm just tired about the usual pbt-whine from albs.

1. Pls some pbt theurgs do any comments about Quickasting pbt Also, any comments of "how a Quickasted heal saved my mentalist arse" would be welcome.
2. Single root is not a kind of proper fg.vs fg CC (Sorcs aoe-mezz is main CC, minstrel's single mezz is support CC, single elementalist's root is an add-on like Thornweed Field).
3. Ok, as you are mentioning every add-on theurgs have, i can say Parry on wardens is an advantage
4. "how can you be main target, if you are not the only one ? Point is the enemy will not be able to tell which one of those casters is the theurg ". I will repeat it again: theurgs = casters = the 1st enemy you are going to target and KILL asap = DISADVANTAGE. And fyi, a balanced alb fg has 2-3 casters (sorc, theur, nuker) so the chances to be the 1st killed in ur group as a theur are pretty high.
5. Mastery of Healing Friar's RA :great:


Well, every reply you make u try to keep away the argue from the stuff that is really important for a support-pbt class like armor type, hps, support abilities,... and is funny how u mention IC-value or Quickast as valid n superior statements. Pls compare similar things as i made in my 1st post, and be serious.



PS: can't understand why you bothered editing my name in you quote. Was you trying to taunt me or wot? I was very respectfull in my posts so when i read a reply quoting me Im always looking for the same respect. Again, pls be serious.

 

[Sharp Thing]

harle, you forgot theur is an alb class, there for = sux :doh:

 

[Amadon]

Originally posted by Tigerius
I hope that's a joke Harle? If not it deserves an award for least essential, most narrowminded, most factignoring class comparison of the month.

er

don't choke on the irony of you calling anyone narrowminded please.

actually please do

your hypocritical bullshit is getting tiresome

 

[Novamir]

ugh, you albs have no idea how lucky you are to have air theurgs. - plus the 45e 29i spec gives what harle said, 6sec pbt with 0 variance baseline nukes, and nuking pets.

 

[<Harle>]

sorry for the name-edit, i had to manually do the second quote since i was quoting someone else first and couldn'T be bothered scrolling down. Didn't mean to offend anyone.

Every post that is saying how uber wardens are mentions insta-pbt as being oh sooo uber. I don't see the issue here, yet still it is being mentioned, and imo if you don't want to run around with pbt all the time and have fear of being interrupted at the start of a combat then QC it. btw, on that Mentalist thing: the Mentalist-TL even mentioned one encounter where he used MoC to continueously heal himslef, which safed him there, so maybe a QC-heal might buy you that one precious second, but we are getting off-topic here.

Single-root is not on a 30-min timer. Timered RAs are not something you can consider when comparing class-balance.
And by saying root is a valid form of CC i don'T mean you can leave your sorc at home and try to single-root the whole inc enemy fg. You can single-root the tank charging at you though.

Yes, parry can be an advantage, when it finally gets fixed in RvR - your point was ?

It always depends on the knowledge of the enemy who is taken out first. It happened to me lots of times that I was taken down by the enemies even before our mages, because they wanted to get rid of pbt.

You brought in the friar, I said you were wrong, Friar can get healing-RAs ( you forget about Wild Healing btw, but that seems to be the common approach in this discussion: forget the good stuff and only mention the crap-stuff on your own classes, so you look really gimped).

btw: who is here to judge what is important on a pbt-class ? In your first post you mentioned Wardens having an uninterruptable melee-attack... i mean, damn, they are uber!!!
Don't try to tell me I have to be serious please...

 

[noaim]

If a Warden gets attacked, what do he do? Do he have any instas to root/mezz/stun the attacker? Or can he QC root/mezz/stun?

What is the Theurg gets attacked? First hit eaten by pbt, QC root, and he get away?

And because both classes have pbt, that doesnt mean they are supposed to be the same.

Shammys and bards should get plate and slam, since Paladins have it, and that is hib/mid end regen vs. alb. Also hib/mid secondary healers should get evade 5 ofc, and they should be able to outdamage other realms tanks in melee. Otherwise they are gimped!

Not to mention bards/skalds should get stealth ofc.

You can keep on whining and compare 1 class to 1 other, but as long as you dont see the whole game, you wont get anywhere.

The classes arent meant to be the same.

But I guess this discussion kinda points out why albs on this server are so fucking crap at playing the game.