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Jergiot
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- #211
that little fella sux, and no, i dont really care about how i write english on a friggin internet forum.
that little fella sux, and no, i dont really care about how i write english on a friggin internet forum.
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Tranquil-
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- #212
I think jerg missed a comma somewhere, misunderstandings pwn.
Anyway.
Is this thread going to die now because there's nothing more to argue about? Do I wait untill the next thread about realm balance is opened again where we have to repeat ourselves AGAIN?
Anyway.
Is this thread going to die now because there's nothing more to argue about? Do I wait untill the next thread about realm balance is opened again where we have to repeat ourselves AGAIN?
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Tigerius
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- #213
1 Tank attacks a Theurgist: Theurgist gets a chance to QC and escape, but he can't QC/PBT AND QC/CC, and power will quickly be a hassle.
1 Tank attacks a Warden: Warden can't escape directly, but it's not as if 1 tank through 6sec insta PBT, Parry & Scale will do lethal damage. In essence the tank is wasting his time and the Warden is succesfully tieing up another player while still granting his primary abilities to the group.
2 Tanks attack a Theurgist: QC/CC won't work anymore (nope his low spec AE version will be resisted too much and short in duration to be considered working), and the theurgist will die very fast.
2 Tanks attack a Warden: the Warden can't do anything but take the beating and return some limited damage (not counting TWF), and eventually provided he gets no assistance dies. Through 6sec PBT, Scale, Parry & IP though, this is hardly anything that happens so fast he won't get healed in time, or for the main CC to CC the tanks, or for indeed the PBT to make a vital difference to the fight and encounter be won. If the Warden dies though, the group looses a rezzer and lots of conc buffs.
We don't have to make this comparison any harder then it is, if you consider Theurgist a PBT spport it's a cloth caster that gets less hp, less armor, less specpoints and less spells in their PBT line. They do get QC and focus and larger power pool (nullified by % costing spells).
1 Tank attacks a Warden: Warden can't escape directly, but it's not as if 1 tank through 6sec insta PBT, Parry & Scale will do lethal damage. In essence the tank is wasting his time and the Warden is succesfully tieing up another player while still granting his primary abilities to the group.
2 Tanks attack a Theurgist: QC/CC won't work anymore (nope his low spec AE version will be resisted too much and short in duration to be considered working), and the theurgist will die very fast.
2 Tanks attack a Warden: the Warden can't do anything but take the beating and return some limited damage (not counting TWF), and eventually provided he gets no assistance dies. Through 6sec PBT, Scale, Parry & IP though, this is hardly anything that happens so fast he won't get healed in time, or for the main CC to CC the tanks, or for indeed the PBT to make a vital difference to the fight and encounter be won. If the Warden dies though, the group looses a rezzer and lots of conc buffs.
We don't have to make this comparison any harder then it is, if you consider Theurgist a PBT spport it's a cloth caster that gets less hp, less armor, less specpoints and less spells in their PBT line. They do get QC and focus and larger power pool (nullified by % costing spells).
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Jergiot
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- #214
noaim ur the alb expert, answer him plz.
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Tranquil-
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- #215
Oh, yeah, forgot this gem.
But, Suppression and Nurture > Earth
In the aspect that both RM and Theurg are casters, true.
But, Suppression and Nurture > Earth
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noaim
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- #216
Yes, but read what you wrote, then read in what aspect, and voila. You only brought up the caster vs. scalewearer issue in your post, and that what was I replied to.
But as for the speclines, yes supp and nurture > earth.
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noaim
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- #217
Runies cant QC pbt AND root either, lets make a new thread and whine about that ok? Also, why the hell would the earth theurgist not have pbt running already? If we are talking balanced groups here, you really should have a minstrel in the group right?
And if not, you really cant complain about that. That leaves you with the QC availible for rooting, and look, you got away.
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Tranquil-
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- #218
Um, yes, I mentioned that in the post you quoted, didn't I?
The addition that supp, nurt > earth was just an...addition. To the 'earth theurgist whine'. It all adds up when you look at disadvantages, towards both hib and mid. Perhaps my post was messy, but none of it is directed at one realm alone, unless I say so.
The addition that supp, nurt > earth was just an...addition. To the 'earth theurgist whine'. It all adds up when you look at disadvantages, towards both hib and mid. Perhaps my post was messy, but none of it is directed at one realm alone, unless I say so.
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Tigerius
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- #219
Many times the Theurgist will begin the fight mezzed, we brought that up earlier as advantage for the Wardens which was shrugged off with a "just QC the PBT then". Yep other times the Theurgist can use the QC to escape, just as the Warden escapes taking any damage from the tank while still granting buffs & PBT to his group. Fairly status quo to me.
The comparison above is Theurgist compared to Warden, noone even mentioned RM previously and yep they do share some of the Theurgist problems although have stronger lines to fall back on. They aren't very interesting in this comparison though.
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Novamir
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- #220
i dont see why casting the BT is much of an issue? since if PBT is cast in view of enemies they know exactly who to kill.. PBTers should have it on already before combat in proper rvr (and no im not concerning soloing- or grouping without minstrel).
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Tranquil-
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- #221
A part of the problem is that important abilities on non-casters is better than having them on casters.
The warden can take some punishment, the theurgist and RM can't. Just like the Healer can, the sorc and bard(to some extent) can't.
The warden can take some punishment, the theurgist and RM can't. Just like the Healer can, the sorc and bard(to some extent) can't.
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Tranquil-
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- #222
If the alb group is jumped with mez, the theurg needs some way to get PBT back up. Wardens can just insta, even if being wacked.
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noaim
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- #223
Thing is supp RM´s have the exact same disadvantages as the earth theurg when compared to a Warden, when it comes to castable pbt instead of insta, and caster instead of scalewearer.
If you wanna complain, complain about the earth line, but dont whine about the scale vs. cloth and the insta pbt vs. castable. Earth theurgists and supp rm´s are the exact same when it comes to armor and pbt-version.
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Tigerius
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- #224
I'm whining about a combination of Earth line that puts PBT and NOTHING ELSE on a very weak class. I've already said that RMs to an extent share this problem of having PBT on a weak class, but if you excuse me this is an "why Albs suck" debate not a "why Mids suck"
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old.Kerosene
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- #225
I have a Warden and had a Theurg. I couldn't tell you about a runey but the main differences are...
Theurg
Can cast pets (air ones are still useful)
Can nuke good and proper if specced right. 300+ dmg every 2 seconds.
10 sec PBT on a severely poo 'Earth' line
Likely to be attacked early in any RvR encounter
Dmg Enhance/Haste buffs (10 min timer iirc. Might be 15)
Nice roots including AoE
Pants AoE mez (21 sec most likely before resists/determination)
Warden
Most likely going to spec to 6 sec PBT without gimping himself
Scale Armour
Parry
Shield
Can spec in weapons
2x as many HP's
Str/Dex/Con/AF Buffs (conc based)
Have baseline heals (or proper heals if for some reason they've gone for 'regrowth' spec
No CC of any use
I suppose if I was to draw comparisons that way then I'd say a warden is 'better' for RvR
However.
I had a million times more fun levelling my theurg than this warden and that's what really matters. The reason for this is my theurg was never afk because there was always something to do whether it was nuking or being the group's main CC'er. Seeing 8 pygmy gobbos go up in ice was always something worth speccing Ice a bit for
The warden is just a pain in the arse. Sure it's easy to get groups but there's a whole lot less to do.
Theurg
Can cast pets (air ones are still useful)
Can nuke good and proper if specced right. 300+ dmg every 2 seconds.
10 sec PBT on a severely poo 'Earth' line
Likely to be attacked early in any RvR encounter
Dmg Enhance/Haste buffs (10 min timer iirc. Might be 15)
Nice roots including AoE
Pants AoE mez (21 sec most likely before resists/determination)
Warden
Most likely going to spec to 6 sec PBT without gimping himself
Scale Armour
Parry
Shield
Can spec in weapons
2x as many HP's
Str/Dex/Con/AF Buffs (conc based)
Have baseline heals (or proper heals if for some reason they've gone for 'regrowth' spec
No CC of any use
I suppose if I was to draw comparisons that way then I'd say a warden is 'better' for RvR
However.
I had a million times more fun levelling my theurg than this warden and that's what really matters. The reason for this is my theurg was never afk because there was always something to do whether it was nuking or being the group's main CC'er. Seeing 8 pygmy gobbos go up in ice was always something worth speccing Ice a bit for
The warden is just a pain in the arse. Sure it's easy to get groups but there's a whole lot less to do.
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old.Kerosene
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- #226
Oh, and Alb's performance in RvR assessment (the whole point of the thread)
No direct leadership with lots of kids trying to take charge. Unfortunately using the following list of words will never ever get everyone's respect.
GIVF
PLZ
11!11!!one one
Chilly (just kidding Chilly mate)
What Alb needs is someone who isn't trying to impress everyone else with his 'leet' skills but instead knows how to communicate with everyone in the realm. Preferrably someone people respect and listen to already.
I have a list of names in my head of people who would fit the bill but I know for a fact wouldn't want to until Alb gets sorted in terms of guilds and alliances.
Too many small alliances. Lack of communication.
No direct leadership with lots of kids trying to take charge. Unfortunately using the following list of words will never ever get everyone's respect.
GIVF
PLZ
11!11!!one one
Chilly (just kidding Chilly mate)
What Alb needs is someone who isn't trying to impress everyone else with his 'leet' skills but instead knows how to communicate with everyone in the realm. Preferrably someone people respect and listen to already.
I have a list of names in my head of people who would fit the bill but I know for a fact wouldn't want to until Alb gets sorted in terms of guilds and alliances.
Too many small alliances. Lack of communication.
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Tigerius
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- #227
Just for the record, you're having fun because you're an AIR theurgist. Try picturing yourself as an Earth theurgist and think again which class would be more fun.
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Ekydus
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- #228
The problem I see with Albion is that we have too many classes to fit into the ideal group. It takes time to put together a group and we are just in most cases inpatient. Each class also has various specs, to form the ideal group you need players to have this group enhancing spec. The problem with this is that players usually spec for themselves. They wish to have fun and so spec the way in which they would like in order for them to enjoy their game time. Various specs means various outcomes, so you can pretty much put it down to not having enough players throughout the realm with the ideal group supporting spec so as you can go out and succeed.
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old.Kerosene
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- #229
Really pisses me off when people make false assumptions. I, like many others specced how we wanted because it was fun, not because it helped the realm or was 'uber'. Since most theurgs have this attitude, you'll rarely find better than 10sec PBT in Albion.
I went for the standard tri-spec so was gimped across all lines but it was hella fun. If I wanted to be complete support, I'd have gone earth/air. I wanted to be a solo-er and made the mistake of going for all the best pets. I didn't know at lvl 20 that I could merely nuke mobs to death at lvl 50.
Ekydus has a good point as well that ties in with mine. With so many different specs it's difficult to find an effective RvR group. With Hib/Mid, they just need 3/4 key RvR people and the other 4 can be literally anyone.
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Jiggs
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- #230
i might point out that full suppression is 100 times more viable then full earth (spec ae snare/dd, single target snare/dd, nearsight versus earth pet)
i might point out that runemaster have a spec nuke with the same delve as the top fire wizard nuke (ie better than the 45spec air nuke)
i might point out that pbt is largely irrelevant if you have merc/BM/zerker/savage assisting your main tank(s)
but no one listens, and we say the same shit in every thread like this so i wont bother.
i might point out that runemaster have a spec nuke with the same delve as the top fire wizard nuke (ie better than the 45spec air nuke)
i might point out that pbt is largely irrelevant if you have merc/BM/zerker/savage assisting your main tank(s)
but no one listens, and we say the same shit in every thread like this so i wont bother.
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parlain
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- #231
Standard?
Only for someone as numpty as you Kero 
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old.Kerosene
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- #232
Absolutely right Jiggs. PBT is made even less relevant by mez/stun too so PBT isn't the end all and be all of RvR. Unfortunately it's the only thing which I know about coz I have man breasts.
However, my point on leadership (above.. around 5 posts up) still stands and that I believe is Albion's downfall at the moment. Swings and Roundabouts though. Someone will rise up over there in the same way that shit floats.
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Trinilim
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- #233
that would be friars mate
the only difference between regular armor and epic armor is...
METAL SHOULDERPADS!
woohoo!
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old.Kerosene
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- #234
Originally posted by parlain
Standard?
Thought I told you never to call me at my office?
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old.Filip
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- #235
they are out there ... just only leading the guilds ..
to lead an alb zerg is a logistical nightmare ...
just to get all groups a cleric is hell ...
Filip
Minser of HB
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noaim
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- #236
I see alot of people mentions "how fun it is".
What is it that makes most albs think it is sooo much more fun to run around with pbt and heal people, than it is to run around with pbt and nuke people?
What is it that makes most albs think it is sooo much more fun to run around with pbt and heal people, than it is to run around with pbt and nuke people?
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old.Kerosene
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- #237
Originally posted by Old.Kerosene
I had a million times more fun levelling my theurg than this warden and that's what really matters. The reason for this is my theurg was never afk because there was always something to do whether it was nuking or being the group's main CC'er. Seeing 8 pygmy gobbos go up in ice was always something worth speccing Ice a bit for
The warden is just a pain in the arse. Sure it's easy to get groups but there's a whole lot less to do.
Who said it's more fun to be a Warden?
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noaim
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- #238
I was under the impression that alot of people thought the earth pbt-line was boring, and therefor I asked what makes those people think Warden is so much more fun to play.
Sorry if you didnt understand that.
For example. Sure Air Theurgist might be more fun, but why compare a damage dealing line to a pbt-line?
Could aswell say "why roll a warden for weap spec when you can roll a hero".
Anyways, what I wanted to point out was that it doesnt have to be more fun to play a warden than what it is to play an earth theurgist, still wardens exist and you lack earth theurgists. Whats fun comes down to who plays the char.
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Flimgoblin
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- #239
An earth theurgist can run bubble, buff everyone every 10m and sit.
That's it.
If they're feeling frisky they can buff themselves and bash monsters (much to the amusement of their group mates) - it does a bit of damage...
They have an attack speed debuff that they can use if they buy MCL and have decent power regen.
A warden gets to buff everyone, run bubble and tank.
Compared to my mercenary who gets to... tank... (ok so merc'll do a fair bit more damage, still the amount of things you get to do is the same...)
So in the fun factor scale of things I'd say the warden is way ahead of the theurg in PvE
heck they can even cast the odd heal since they're not burning 70% of their mana bar on buffs every 10m.
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noaim
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- #240
Buffing is fun (yeah right), tanking and doing 20 damage must be fun, and if we are talking solo PvE, I rather have an earth theurgist with earth pets than a Warden. You dont even need to run the pbt there. If grouped, I dont think any of them will start tanking.
But I wasnt talking about PvE.
But I wasnt talking about PvE.