The so called fix of 'melee lag'.

[noaim]

True is a matter of opinion, opinions I pick faults with, no people themselves, resorting to that just shows immaturity and an inability to deal with people who disagree with you.

Much like yourself right now.

How is whats true a matter of opinion? So if its my opinion that all armsmen hit for 1500 per second, that is true and armsmen should be nerfed?

Tell me 1 caster that hits you for 900 per second, any class. I have mom5 wp5 8% damage and caps at 681, which means it requires a capped nuke with a good crit to reach 900 damage. You dont cap every nuke, and you dont get a good crit on every nuke. You are so snowed in its sad to see, but sure, keep thinking that all rr7+ casters hit for 900 per second, and keep whining about it, it does you alot of good.

Its fun to see you having screenshots in your sig too with damage higher than I can ever reach. I bet you always crit and hit for that much right? I mean, crits are always 40%+ in damage etc.

 

[Mastade]

How is whats true a matter of opinion? So if its my opinion that all armsmen hit for 1500 per second, that is true and armsmen should be nerfed?

Tell me 1 caster that hits you for 900 per second, any class. I have mom5 wp5 8% damage and caps at 681, which means it requires a capped nuke with a good crit to reach 900 damage. You dont cap every nuke, and you dont get a good crit on every nuke. You are so snowed in its sad to see, but sure, keep thinking that all rr7+ casters hit for 900 per second, and keep whining about it, it does you alot of good.

Its fun to see you having screenshots in your sig too with damage higher than I can ever reach. I bet you always crit and hit for that much right? I mean, crits are always 40%+ in damage etc.

respec supp and moc3!!

 

[noaim]

respec supp and moc3!!

For teh farming!??!

 

[Shike]

True is a matter of opinion, opinions I pick faults with, no people themselves, resorting to that just shows immaturity and an inability to deal with people who disagree with you.

Much like yourself right now.

hmm

So, a grumpy ol guy that think casters hits tanks for 900 all the time... is just correct and arguing against that is wrong since your opinion is true or what? I dont follow you here.

I think you have been hit for 900+ sometimes, it can happen with an extreme crit and a debuff on no casted resists at all but 900+ is not the norm at all, its abnormal damage and happens very very seldom. You choose to bring up abnormal events and whine about those, why? Why not stick to debating relevant events that happens on a more regular basis, since it actually is those that really matters in the longrun, nobody cares about flukes, except you in this case.

 

[Dr_Evil]

*I've been hit for over 900 by Motroconnu the cabalist on my skald with 26% body resistance and AoM2. 2 seconds later I was dead even though I have 2300+ HP.

*I've been hit for 1300 dmg by pbaoe from an eldritch/enchanter, with 26% energy resist, AoM2.

*I've been bolted to death by a wizard faster than I could hit IP2 or move, when pushing IP2 it said 'Can't use while dead', that's with 20% heat resist,AoM2 and 2100 HP before CL5.

I know it's rare, and casters need to be high rr to get this dmg, but it still does happen. Even 600 dmg per second means extremely quick death for a tank anyway. From 1500 range a cabalist can optimally nuke a tank 6 times before he reaches melee range, and that's 3600 dmg from 600 per nuke, not many tanks can survive that. That's why tanks are free rp for a caster at range. And that's why it's boring to play against casters for a tank.

hmm, I never die to a single caster while running to him, if that happened id ask the druids what actually happened. Did you have a proper resistbuff when that caba nuked you for 900+? Bolts hurt yep but you wear chain, use specAFbuff and you should see the damage drop with quite abit. I've gotten 2bolted many times on my chanter but never even close on any tank. 600 damage from a caba per second means low resists or no resistbuff, no doubt. Or actually 3 relics then i can see that damage beeing done but thats abnormal as hell tbh.

My endpoint here is, a tank isnt free RPs to a caster, not even close, pack up with good support and its amazing how long those fellas actually can keep one alive. Solo is a whole different story though and the game isnt really balanced around that at all. (hi moc3 sorcs and cabas and SMs etc..).

These encounters have occured when I was solo or duo/trio with other tanks and no support. I guess I forgot to mention it because it was so obvious to me, but ofc it's not as obvious to others. My bad.

Solo tanks are free rp for solo casters.

And yes I always run with spec AF up when solo, and I have 50 AF bonus in template, wich gives me a total AF of 829. When I'm duo, my partner usually has SoK up aswell that gives me 870 AF.

As I said I have 26% Body resist and AoM2, with 2300+ HP and a high rr cabalist has no problem killing me in 2 seconds. When I said 600 dmg nukes, then I was being nice and telling the minimum dmg a high rr caster nukes for. It's VERY rare that they hit for lower. Only low RR casters do that.

What I meant to say was: "Even as low as 600 dmg per second means extremely quick death for a tank anyway."

What dmg do u normally get nuked for?

 

[Dr_Evil]

would love to see a cabby constant nuke for 600 dmg.

Every time I get within 1500 range of a high rr cabalist this happens:

Motroconnu hits you for 918 damage!
Motroconnu hits you for 728 damage!
Motroconnu hits you for 728 damage!
You have died!
You are dead and can't use this ability!

Edit:typo

 

[Shike]

These encounters have occured when I was solo or duo/trio with other tanks and no support. I guess I forgot to mention it because it was so obvious to me, but ofc it's not as obvious to others. My bad.

Solo tanks are free rp for solo casters.

depends what tank and depends what caster mate. Id wanna see a caster nuke down a warrior with fury up quickly, same for a skald with PS and FZ, etc.

And yes I always run with spec AF up when solo, and I have 50 AF bonus in template, wich gives me a total AF of 829. When I'm duo, my partner usually has SoK up aswell that gives me 870 AF.

As I said I have 26% Body resist and AoM2, with 2300+ HP and a high rr cabalist has no problem killing me in 2 seconds. When I said 600 dmg nukes, then I was being nice and telling the minimum dmg a high rr caster nukes for. It's VERY rare that they hit for lower. Only low RR casters do that.

What I meant to say was: "Even as low as 600 dmg per second means extremely quick death for a tank anyway."

What dmg do u normally get nuked for?

Ordinary specnuke = around 400-440 damage on me, doesnt really matter which damagetype it is either since I got all resist 25%+. Sorcs nuke for less than that too usually since they are lower bodyspecc. Debuffnuke ranges from 450 to 520 or so if its a really really high rank one. Crits ofc adjust damage upwards but not too bad tbh. I always run in groups though with proper resistbuffs and such. That bolt on your AF is abnormal, totally silly and it shouldnt be that high, its a total fluke and nothing else.

 

[Arkian]

depends what tank and depends what caster mate. Id wanna see a caster nuke down a warrior with fury up quickly, same for a skald with PS and FZ, etc.



Ordinary specnuke = around 400-440 damage on me, doesnt really matter which damagetype it is either since I got all resist 25%+. Sorcs nuke for less than that too usually since they are lower bodyspecc. Debuffnuke ranges from 450 to 520 or so if its a really really high rank one. Crits ofc adjust damage upwards but not too bad tbh. I always run in groups though with proper resistbuffs and such. That bolt on your AF is abnormal, totally silly and it shouldnt be that high, its a total fluke and nothing else.

I'm actually now very curious how you only get nuked for 450 to 520 when debuff nuked. I have 26% item + 16% casted in the groups i run, and I get debuff nuked by pretty much any rr5+ cabalist for an average non crit of 590+ With a crit average of 30% that would make the average crit hit 767+

Not sure why the difference, can only tell you what happens to me.

 

[Novamir]

Kagato, i find your comments about the Tank/Caster balance quite ridiculous. nukes just wash over me now tbh.

- The duration of Fury and Rampage have been increased to 20 seconds.

+20% base resist for heavy tanks.
+determination and purge.

how can you die to casters? in a group, i am now always the last to die. with fury/rampage/soldiers barricade 3/high base magic resists, casters dont bother me at all.

when solo its a different story of course, but then when solo ill try not to stray too far from a keep/bridge/water when Fury is down. when fury/rampage are up, however, i can kill any caster 1v1.

 

[Maeloch]

Well caster damage is all over the place, if you want to make a story of it you can spin it which way you like. Assist debuff nuking with decent WP can hit 900+ quite often np. On the other hand try nuking down a 3k hp tank with fury and IP, have fun on that...or moccing down a sb after malice proc with red bot resists, evil 220 damage. Then pbaoeing repeatedly for 1xx after demoral on bl tank at pbaoe centre. Not saying caster dps isn't crazy sometimes, but only times it gets noticed is when it hits the big numbers...if tank gets pbaoed for 140 he wouldn't even notice it.

 

[Shike]

I'm actually now very curious how you only get nuked for 450 to 520 when debuff nuked. I have 26% item + 16% casted in the groups i run, and I get debuff nuked by pretty much any rr5+ cabalist for an average non crit of 590+ With a crit average of 30% that would make the average crit hit 767+

Not sure why the difference, can only tell you what happens to me.

aom4 my friend. Its very nice to have imo since it buys just alil more time for the druids in my group to keep me alive. And our warden has enuff for red bodybuff so thats 24% added to my 26%, 50% body is my standardresist, add in 15% secondary from aom4 and well, you do the math. Same for a chanter nuking on a midgroup, if a light tank have aom4+ and some EM ontop of that, its bloody hell killing that tank since a midtank should have 50% heatresist in base.

 

[Kagato]

How is whats true a matter of opinion?

Because what you say is true and what I or anyone else says is true IS a matter of opinion, there is of cause only one real truth but in a debate like this no one here has the power to say what is or is not true because we all have different opinions and its something that cannot be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

hmm

So, a grumpy ol guy that think casters hits tanks for 900 all the time... is just correct and arguing against that is wrong since your opinion is true or what? I dont follow you here.

I think you have been hit for 900+ sometimes, it can happen with an extreme crit and a debuff on no casted resists at all but 900+ is not the norm at all, its abnormal damage and happens very very seldom. You choose to bring up abnormal events and whine about those, why? Why not stick to debating relevant events that happens on a more regular basis, since it actually is those that really matters in the longrun, nobody cares about flukes, except you in this case.

Even if you lower the damage down to 600 a time, or even 500 a time, with the rediculous casting speed most heavy damage spellcasters are capable of your still looking at death before you can even close distance and break through the barriers to land a hit.

THAT is a 'real' non abnormal situration as you term it.

Kagato, i find your comments about the Tank/Caster balance quite ridiculous. nukes just wash over me now tbh.



+20% base resist for heavy tanks.
+determination and purge.

how can you die to casters? in a group, i am now always the last to die. with fury/rampage/soldiers barricade 3/high base magic resists, casters dont bother me at all.

when solo its a different story of course, but then when solo ill try not to stray too far from a keep/bridge/water when Fury is down. when fury/rampage are up, however, i can kill any caster 1v1.

How can you seriously throw in a 15 minute re-use timer ability as a arguement in the defense of spellcasters?

so you can survive once every 15 minutes, assuming your not kited to death. whoop-ee-doo, all hail mythic.

 

[Arkian]

aom4 my friend. Its very nice to have imo since it buys just alil more time for the druids in my group to keep me alive. And our warden has enuff for red bodybuff so thats 24% added to my 26%, 50% body is my standardresist, add in 15% secondary from aom4 and well, you do the math. Same for a chanter nuking on a midgroup, if a light tank have aom4+ and some EM ontop of that, its bloody hell killing that tank since a midtank should have 50% heatresist in base.

And therin lies the crux of the problem, Det 4, purge 2 (seems to be a must since the tendrils nerf), charge 3, AoM 4 I need 9L5 on a zerker before I can even think about any RAs to boost damage. If I could live with 1 charge every 5 minutes then maybe I could get away with RR8L0 to increase my survivability against debuff nukers, shame the zerker is 6L3.

 

[Tuthmes]

And therin lies the crux of the problem, Det 4, purge 2 (seems to be a must since the tendrils nerf), charge 3, AoM 4 I need 9L5 on a zerker before I can even think about any RAs to boost damage. If I could live with 1 charge every 5 minutes then maybe I could get away with RR8L0 to increase my survivability against debuff nukers, shame the zerker is 6L3.

Exactamundo! Where as a caster spends all his ra's on dmg dealing the tank spends it on "surf"(kite)iving.

 

[Kagato]

And therin lies the crux of the problem, Det 4, purge 2 (seems to be a must since the tendrils nerf), charge 3, AoM 4 I need 9L5 on a zerker before I can even think about any RAs to boost damage. If I could live with 1 charge every 5 minutes then maybe I could get away with RR8L0 to increase my survivability against debuff nukers, shame the zerker is 6L3.

Even after that we do not have the same damage increase options.

You can increase magic damage directly with RA's, we have no direct damage increase RA.

You can increase power regen and power pool with ra's, you cannot do either with Endurance (tireless only allows your endurance to regen in combat same as power already does).

You can increase a spells chance to land with mastery of focus, you cannot do the same for melee hits.

Theres a whole host of RA's to improve spells but nothing for melee damage that is not already copied for magic. The only things you can improve melee attacks with, such as augmentations and crit chance increase magic damage also mimics already.
Heck even champion levels increase power pools, but not endurance pools, start comparing ToA bonuses and the list increases the gap even further.

 

[Shike]

And therin lies the crux of the problem, Det 4, purge 2 (seems to be a must since the tendrils nerf), charge 3, AoM 4 I need 9L5 on a zerker before I can even think about any RAs to boost damage. If I could live with 1 charge every 5 minutes then maybe I could get away with RR8L0 to increase my survivability against debuff nukers, shame the zerker is 6L3.

here I agree totally, tanks have it very very harsch when it comes to RAs, its not fun to know I need at least rr8 to cover the basics, thats just... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. I got aom4, purge2, det4 and lw1 atm, I skipped charge totally for now and im saving up for charge1 for 7L1 It sounds weird I know but, it actually works out for me. Sure I get mezzed initially now and then but CB usually cover for it and with the increased meleerange I dont feel that charge is an absolute must. I will get it ofc but it was a question about what I prioritize atm, live longer and perhaps get CCd a tad more initially, or die faster and make it harder for the druids. When hibs get relic back I might change down to aom3 though, should work out oke I think. I actually think charge2 is fine to stop on aswell, rather get some mop instead of charge3 since im a killing tank these days, not purely an interruptbot.

 

[Straef]

Much like yourself right now.

As bitching about every single possible subject, constantly repeating yourself, just gets you surrounded by an aura of maturity. I missed the immaturity in his post, but I guess it's just me.

 

[Phake]

there is ofcuz a reason for casterdamage to be high since one interupt and they have no damage.

and when meeting a solo caster with yer solo tank .. just use some range interupt .. some charge from an item/BL or whatever .. once ur in melee only moc can save the caster ...

How can you seriously throw in a 10 minute re-use timer ability as a arguement in the defense of tanks. .. nice lending arguments from Kagato .. they are so well though out .. hah

 

[Straef]

there is ofcuz a reason for casterdamage to be high since one interupt and they have no damage.

and when meeting a solo caster with yer solo tank .. just use some range interupt .. some charge from an item/BL or whatever .. once ur in melee only moc can save the caster ...

How can you seriously throw in a 10 minute re-use timer ability as a arguement in the defense of tanks. .. nice lending arguments from Kagato .. they are so well though out .. hah

It's rather easy to avoid getting interrupted tho, especially in fg fights. And those items/ML's are on timer's, just like moc, assuming that's the 10 min ability you're refering to. The fotm casters (as that's the majority of the active casters) all have some sort of cc or a pet, and can use those in fights against tanks. The pets especially are pretty much unbeatable by tanks when buffed, and you can simply kite or flee using your mez/root/snare or whatever. And yes, that won't work when a tank is charging, but that's a fairly short duration and most casters I've met just go strafe mode.
Assuming you're right and casters are easily outdone in 1-1 fights by tanks, which is basicly what you're saying, they're still far superior when surprising an enemy, due to the high damage, or when camping/zerging, due to their range, as well as, in my opinion, in fg fights.

 

[Phake]

It's rather easy to avoid getting interrupted tho, especially in fg fights. And those items/ML's are on timer's, just like moc, assuming that's the 10 min ability you're refering to. The fotm casters (as that's the majority of the active casters) all have some sort of cc or a pet, and can use those in fights against tanks. The pets especially are pretty much unbeatable by tanks when buffed, and you can simply kite or flee using your mez/root/snare or whatever. And yes, that won't work when a tank is charging, but that's a fairly short duration and most casters I've met just go strafe mode.
Assuming you're right and casters are easily outdone in 1-1 fights by tanks, which is basicly what you're saying, they're still far superior when surprising an enemy, due to the high damage, or when camping/zerging, due to their range, as well as, in my opinion, in fg fights.

hrm well in FG fights id say casters vs tanks are kinda even now .. a balanced group is the best imo .. in asylum we run pala merc merc as tanks .. and sorc caba theurg as casters .. accept for the cabalist at the end of the night we all have about the same deathblows .. so i guess its kinda even with the damageoutput between those classes in FG fights.. though solo .. i just cant understand a heavy tank having that much problem with casters tbh .. with all the magic resists and stuff he has .. my other post was more a reply on Kagatos whine etc .. anyways .. imo the balance is good now for FGs atleast

 

[noaim]

Because what you say is true and what I or anyone else says is true IS a matter of opinion, there is of cause only one real truth but in a debate like this no one here has the power to say what is or is not true because we all have different opinions and its something that cannot be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

How much you get hit for by an average nuke isnt an opinion though, its a fact that noone nukes for 900 damage per second, especially not on a warrior/armsman/hero.

 

[Straef]

hrm well in FG fights id say casters vs tanks are kinda even now .. a balanced group is the best imo .. in asylum we run pala merc merc as tanks .. and sorc caba theurg as casters .. accept for the cabalist at the end of the night we all have about the same deathblows .. so i guess its kinda even with the damageoutput between those classes in FG fights.. though solo .. i just cant understand a heavy tank having that much problem with casters tbh .. with all the magic resists and stuff he has .. my other post was more a reply on Kagatos whine etc .. anyways .. imo the balance is good now for FGs atleast

I can't really judge whether the last patch had a major impact on the game's balance, as I haven't played since, tho I'll stick to what I said until I notice otherwise And you're right about the deathblows, as it usually isn't too far appart, depending on a role the caster/tank is given.

 

[raid]

How much you get hit for by an average nuke isnt an opinion though, its a fact that noone nukes for 900 damage per second, especially not on a warrior/armsman/hero.

indeed

grawen nukes wonderer for mighty 157dmg...

 

[Shike]

I can't really judge whether the last patch had a major impact on the game's balance, as I haven't played since, tho I'll stick to what I said until I notice otherwise And you're right about the deathblows, as it usually isn't too far appart, depending on a role the caster/tank is given.

it actually changed quite alot for me at least. Its a total change in my damagepotential now since I actually can hit stuff.

 

[Arkian]

here I agree totally, tanks have it very very harsch when it comes to RAs, its not fun to know I need at least rr8 to cover the basics, thats just... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. I got aom4, purge2, det4 and lw1 atm, I skipped charge totally for now and im saving up for charge1 for 7L1 It sounds weird I know but, it actually works out for me. Sure I get mezzed initially now and then but CB usually cover for it and with the increased meleerange I dont feel that charge is an absolute must. I will get it ofc but it was a question about what I prioritize atm, live longer and perhaps get CCd a tad more initially, or die faster and make it harder for the druids. When hibs get relic back I might change down to aom3 though, should work out oke I think. I actually think charge2 is fine to stop on aswell, rather get some mop instead of charge3 since im a killing tank these days, not purely an interruptbot.

I may need to experiment and give it a go.

 

[Shike]

I may need to experiment and give it a go.

only way to improve mate, GL

 

[Straef]

it actually changed quite alot for me at least. Its a total change in my damagepotential now since I actually can hit stuff.

Aye, being able to hit stuff sounds ace, as it used to be a bitch to hit at all, let alone getting styles off.

 

[Kagato]

there is ofcuz a reason for casterdamage to be high since one interupt and they have no damage.

and when meeting a solo caster with yer solo tank .. just use some range interupt .. some charge from an item/BL or whatever .. once ur in melee only moc can save the caster ...

How can you seriously throw in a 10 minute re-use timer ability as a arguement in the defense of tanks. .. nice lending arguments from Kagato .. they are so well though out .. hah

Fury is 15 minute reuse, yes, well thought out.

How much you get hit for by an average nuke isnt an opinion though, its a fact that noone nukes for 900 damage per second, especially not on a warrior/armsman/hero.

Yes it is a matter of opinion, and fact is some spellcasters can and do hit for 900 a second and even if you reduce it to 600, 700 or 800 its still a sick amount of ranged damage being pumped out every second.

 

[Shike]

Yes it is a matter of opinion, and fact is some spellcasters can and do hit for 900 a second and even if you reduce it to 600, 700 or 800 its still a sick amount of ranged damage being pumped out every second.

then again, what can actually a caster really do that is effective once he has a tank upon him? Besides flee and scream like a lil girl You know how hard you hit and you also know how fast you can take down a caster.

 

[Dallas]

indeed

grawen nukes wonderer for mighty 157dmg...

then 1100 on poor bm