The so called fix of 'melee lag'.

[Vodkafairy]

my cleric gets about 75% more rp per hour than my wiz if they are grouped together.

rofl - has to be one of the best quotes on fh ever

 

[Shike]

ever... considered grouping kagato? :I..

your opininons overall as a heavy tank get a tad watered down since you speak from a solo POV all the time it seems. teamwork is what makes tanks work out properly, nothing else :/

your lil statement about shields is just hilarious, you dont see the value in slam at all, nor do you see it in shieldswipe or hell, as defense when getting trained on? You got your big pole with what, 4-5 styles you actively use? Some warlordstuff, some artis, and thats about it ye?

You dont have to call for targets, call for preheals, call for free casters left and right that need an interrupt from the back, call for assist on your target, peel off healers, peel off casters, kill pets, kill SW's! (faytes favourite entertainment in the frontiers^^) , kite adds, peel adds, interrupt, assist your MA, take over as MA when your MA dies, pan around when running looking for action, slam for covering your healers, slam for your casters to ensure kills, guard your casters and whatever else tanks actually have to do in groups.. a tank has a fucking fulltimejob out there, and tanks as an archetype works very well for it as it is now. In your environment, you say you get nuked for 900+ all the time, shield is not worth speccing, and some other things... while if you actually played with a group, you would know the value of the tools you have, and you would also definetely know how fragile casters are when tanks cooperate with casters and work as a team.

Solopointofview is just.. zzzz in these matters, and they hold very little water simply because.. with your timers up a caster struggles vs u, with your timers down you might die fast, the silly fact that u got no slam actually makes you cannonfodder solo vs a class like enchanter. You own stealthers and other tanks sure but who cares, really? :I Anyone can specialise vs one or two things and do well vs em, its not even hard. As I said, 4-5 styles, some warlordstuff, some artis, fury when up, some RAs when up, thats it. And you still whine like a baby even though tanks got alot of hidden love this patch. Its the greatest that happened for tanks in bloody ages imo.

 

[Kagato]

ever... considered grouping kagato? :I..

Ever considered actually knowing something about a person before passing opinion on their playstyle?

This weekend for example I have solod....not once.

I was in guild group all saturday, in guild group all sunday and on night shifts all week inbetween so not playing at all.

Week before that, same again, a bit of solo mid week and guild groups all weekend.

And thats about same as it has been for many months now, but hey ! its just me playing my character, so what do I know, you obviously know far far more about me and my playstyle then I do, im just me.

As for shields, I did not say there wasn't value in them, but I think whatever value they offer is out weighed by the value of specing in parry for myself. Keeping in mind this is a double-spec class we are talking about, we are forced to choose between offense or defense we cannot have both at the same time.
By specing in parry I can keep up both my offense and defense at the same time, without sacrificing all my offensive capability just to try and black against DW.
Slam? over rated, landing it on a high defense tank with no to hit bonus is not always easy and against most people im likely to meet many of the times they will have purge up, if they do not have purge up theres no chance they are going to try and take me on unless suicidal.
Im not going to sacrifice all my active defense just for 2 styles which will only be useful in very specific siturations.

Speaking of styles, I have 7 on my quickbar thankyou, not 5, and i've already narrowed that down from 9 which is what would be ideal for the sake of space.

 

[Kagato]

That's cause you're a goddamn dumbass who has no real experience from anything else than killing melee chars with the ~best melee duel char in game.

Oh yeah and trebbing towers.

If you think armsmen are the best melee dual character in game, then your the only real dumbass here.

 

[Coolan]

If you think armsmen are the best melee dual character in game, then your the only real dumbass here.

What i dont understand is why ppl assume the armsman is the best class ive dropped them with my zerker, not you kagato but i gave it ago, willing to bet if i changed my spec i could beat u, so would that make the zerker the best melee class in the game i very much doubt it.

 

[Vodkafairy]

gotta love the way kagato always twists all arguments to his favour and ignores all the points he's proven wrong on. i think shike meant competitive fg's who go agramon to meet other groups, not casual groups who stick with a bg.

the slam thing was because you cried at casters being overpowered, if you choose not to get slam then you put yourself as a disadvantage against them. your choice, tough shit. i can understand why you like high parry but really, caster whine is worthless the way you bring it.

and armsmen not the best duellers? maybe not, but they have always had the most OP style in the game since doublefrost got nerfed. and now they made it even better, frontal 1.0+ growth rate with as, very sick joke it's a fact any fotm monkey can win most duels with an armsman, battler + warguard + spam that defenders fury or whatever its called.

time for this useless thread to die mayhap, kag is too stubborn to let loose of his biased and twisted ideas anyway. whatever works for him.

 

[Kagato]

gotta love the way kagato always twists all arguments to his favour and ignores all the points he's proven wrong on. i think shike meant competitive fg's who go agramon to meet other groups, not casual groups who stick with a bg.

the slam thing was because you cried at casters being overpowered, if you choose not to get slam then you put yourself as a disadvantage against them. your choice, tough shit. i can understand why you like high parry but really, caster whine is worthless the way you bring it.

and armsmen not the best duellers? maybe not, but they have always had the most OP style in the game since doublefrost got nerfed. and now they made it even better, frontal 1.0+ growth rate with as, very sick joke it's a fact any fotm monkey can win most duels with an armsman, battler + warguard + spam that defenders fury or whatever its called.

time for this useless thread to die mayhap, kag is too stubborn to let loose of his biased and twisted ideas anyway. whatever works for him.

Nothing has been proven or disproven by anyone here in this thread, its all matter of opinion, which your welcome to disagree on just like I disagree with you.

Slam arguement is no differant against casters then it is against anyone else, I have no more chance to win a fight with slam then I do without, as any caster with purge down wouldn't dare let a tank get near them, if they do then they deserve to lose.

Most over powered style in the game? from dueling point of view quite possible though again its a matter of opinion, personally I think theres more useful styles around for 'general' and full group based RvR, but considering we have to deal with double-specing I make no apologies for it.

 

[Novamir]

Slam arguement is no differant against casters then it is against anyone else, I have no more chance to win a fight with slam then I do without, as any caster with purge down wouldn't dare let a tank get near them, if they do then they deserve to lose.

the mind boggles...

 

[Kagato]

Considering im at work on night shifts, im actually amazed anyone else is still awake to argue this :touch:

 

[Arthuria]

Most over powered style in the game? from dueling point of view quite possible though again its a matter of opinion, personally I think theres more useful styles around for 'general' and full group based RvR, but considering we have to deal with double-specing I make no apologies for it.

afaik you also have an anytime snarestyle? do you really wanne know how many tanks would like to have this in fgvsfg?

 

[Lorfo]

Nothing has been proven or disproven by anyone here in this thread, its all matter of opinion, which your welcome to disagree on just like I disagree with you.

Do I have to take screenshots of my capdmg with bainshee to prove that I dont nuke for 900 every second ? Or you could just open some spelldamage calculator and figure out yourself that no caster nuke for 900 every second.

 

[Gahn]

afaik you also have an anytime snarestyle? do you really wanne know how many tanks would like to have this in fgvsfg?

It's just easy mode, i'm happy with my back snare cs style, it fucking rox!! I almost dragged grapple off my qb tbh.

 

[noaim]

Do I have to take screenshots of my capdmg with bainshee to prove that I dont nuke for 900 every second ? Or you could just open some spelldamage calculator and figure out yourself that no caster nuke for 900 every second.

If his opinion is that casters nuke for 900 per second all the time, then its a fact that they do so damnit, dont you know anything about facts, math, arguing, logic or common sense?!

 

[Shike]

Nothing has been proven or disproven by anyone here in this thread, its all matter of opinion, which your welcome to disagree on just like I disagree with you.

Slam arguement is no differant against casters then it is against anyone else, I have no more chance to win a fight with slam then I do without, as any caster with purge down wouldn't dare let a tank get near them, if they do then they deserve to lose.

Most over powered style in the game? from dueling point of view quite possible though again its a matter of opinion, personally I think theres more useful styles around for 'general' and full group based RvR, but considering we have to deal with double-specing I make no apologies for it.

no caster ever specc purge3 except perhaps sorcs though, which means their purge is on 15min timer isnt it? You yourself earlier said exactly what about 15min timer on things? Please, look back and see what you actually wrote about Fury, then read what you wrote about purge, a good prekiting caster can avoid a tank and tbh, I dont see many of those around at all and in that case, purge wont matter at all, to slam or not to slam is not a question about purge (there is also an immunitytimer aswell btw, I am usually slammed 2-3 times in a normal fight vs a good grp for instance, I can only purge one of those).
Your opinions makes zero sense Kagato. Slam is a rocking tool for FGrvr for example, yet you think it isnt a tool that is worth having because it can be purged and if purge is down u think u can be avoided, look at it in this light, with that argument, why would you specc weapon at all? You can be prekited from all casters and support as soon as they see you. Do you actually spend your time in fights killing tanks and only tanks? Since those are the only ones that doesnt truly benefit from prekiting. When killing casters or support slam would definetely help you out, no doubt.

 

[Heta]

slaming ppl that MoC is funny aswell

 

[Stallion]

well theoreticly getting 9xx in a serial of nukes aint that much of a biggie, happens here and there with wp5, but on an arms with boosted resists? Dont think so.

 

[Shike]

slaming ppl that MoC is funny aswell

one of the two best tools against it yep, slam and FZ.

 

[Vodkafairy]

Nothing has been proven or disproven by anyone here in this thread, its all matter of opinion, which your welcome to disagree on just like I disagree with you.

Slam arguement is no differant against casters then it is against anyone else, I have no more chance to win a fight with slam then I do without, as any caster with purge down wouldn't dare let a tank get near them, if they do then they deserve to lose.

Most over powered style in the game? from dueling point of view quite possible though again its a matter of opinion, personally I think theres more useful styles around for 'general' and full group based RvR, but considering we have to deal with double-specing I make no apologies for it.

no, a lot of things are game mechanics and not opinions - but you choose to stop replying to those points because you are simply wrong. next to that most of your opinions are extremely biased because you do not have the knowledge of fg fights (i have never seen you with a fg in agramon in 2+ years, please don't bring up half assed casual groups that don't use voicecoms and only zerg, thanks)

but whatever - have fun handicapping yourself, getting rid of the bias would help you a lot as a player. /shrug

 

[Kagato]

afaik you also have an anytime snarestyle? do you really wanne know how many tanks would like to have this in fgvsfg?

With .4 growth rate, even our taunt style does more damage. But yes I agree it is handy.

When killing casters or support slam would definetely help you out, no doubt.

I do not deny there are occasions when slam would be useful, I agree with you there, but in doing so I would also leave myself completely vulnerable and crap against the people I fight most of the time.
No one can be good against everything all the time, I spec for what I think makes me good against as much as possible in as many siturations as possible, but there will always be someone/class that you will be weak against, the game would be very bad if there wasn't.

well theoreticly getting 9xx in a serial of nukes aint that much of a biggie, happens here and there with wp5, but on an arms with boosted resists? Dont think so.

Funnily enough you were one of the people thats done it, but I wasn't going to involve names originally. However that was before I had CL resists so we can knock 10% of there.

no, a lot of things are game mechanics and not opinions - but you choose to stop replying to those points because you are simply wrong. next to that most of your opinions are extremely biased because you do not have the knowledge of fg fights (i have never seen you with a fg in agramon in 2+ years, please don't bring up half assed casual groups that don't use voicecoms and only zerg, thanks)

but whatever - have fun handicapping yourself, getting rid of the bias would help you a lot as a player. /shrug

I have replied to everything here, though I have trimmed down some posts in order to stop the post length reaching stupid proportions. As for game mechanics again without being able to look into the actual code alot of all this is all hypothetical theory, it cannot be proven with either a test server or a coder.
As for voice coms and FG yes I have been involved in that, on both theurg and armsman in the past.
But in agramon in 2+ years? funnily enough I did not think agramon has even existed for that long on EU lol.
And I think it would help you as a person to try posting your theories and thoughts without having to criticise people themselves.

 

[Asha]

Keeping in mind that the majority of damage spells are now debuff based or self debuff, I quite often still get hit for a over 900 damage with 26% capped resists, 10% CL resists AND 15% heavy tank resists.
And if all else fails, just desease shear and run, no immunity power, nothing you can do about it.

This is an example of how you twist things to suit your arguements which, in reality, make no sense.
Who has debuffable dmg doing 900 dmg to you with cl tank resists and capped resists and can also disease and shear? I would really love to know.

You won't answer me because there isn't an answer...

I agree with you totally, however, I think healing classes probably have it easiest of all now these days in terms of how much effort they need to put in to become "competative". RP's for rezzing, rps for healing, rps for shearing, rps for sneezing. Even my buff bot is almost rr5 now, its silly. Im not complaining as it is a dull job so they do deserve reward for it, but its argueably the easiest of all now for time/effort to rp ratio.

Another example. RPs for rezzing & healing don't make that big a bump. RPs for shearing? You get the same rps for shearing as your group. And you can't solo AT ALL = big time downtime. People prove you wrong with the mathmatics about one topic and you jump to healing classes and how much better off they are than you.

Either you're a sadomasochist or you're kidding yourself. Either way, it's sad to watch. And I am serious, not trying to be nasty or jump on a bandwagon.

 

[Arthuria]

This is an example of how you twist things to suit your arguements which, in reality, make no sense.
Who has debuffable dmg doing 900 dmg to you with cl tank resists and capped resists and can also disease and shear? I would really love to know.

You won't answer me because there isn't an answer...

yes there is, the SHAMAN! xD with matter legendary!

 

[Kagato]

This is an example of how you twist things to suit your arguements which, in reality, make no sense.
Who has debuffable dmg doing 900 dmg to you with cl tank resists and capped resists and can also disease and shear? I would really love to know.

You won't answer me because there isn't an answer...



Another example. RPs for rezzing & healing don't make that big a bump. RPs for shearing? You get the same rps for shearing as your group. And you can't solo AT ALL = big time downtime. People prove you wrong with the mathmatics about one topic and you jump to healing classes and how much better off they are than you.

Either you're a sadomasochist or you're kidding yourself. Either way, it's sad to watch. And I am serious, not trying to be nasty or jump on a bandwagon.

Jumping or not, welcome to the bandwagon.
And no twisting is needed, no the same classes that desease are not the same classes that debuff (unless you count CL desease) however as some people keep insisting on talking from a FG vs FG perspective here, why can't I ? I'd of thought that most competitive full groups would have debuff casters and desease/shearers within that group.

As for jumping on healing classes, you obviously missed the part where I said that they do a important job that is rather dull and deserve a reward. But they are still easiest of all to climb up the rp chart with.

 

[Raven]

i dropped slam for a while and hated it. though with my current spec (blunt/shield) i dont use it in 1v1 melee fights

 

[Asha]

shaman hit for 900?


Kagato... any competative fg will have resists and buffers and measures to chase/cc ppl running... it's just not realistic what you're saying.

I didn't miss the part about being dull (I don't think it's dull tbh) but it's not easier to climb rps since you have to have ppl to heal and rez and you can't just go solo some rps... it's you that missed that point.

And the point that you are either playing a class that is underpowered and has so many unfair weaknesses that it's a misery to play or you're kidding yourself. It's either one or the other. Whichever is correct, I think you should ask yourself why you're playing if you have no fun...

 

[Kagato]

shaman hit for 900?


Kagato... any competative fg will have resists and buffers and measures to chase/cc ppl running... it's just not realistic what you're saying.

I didn't miss the part about being dull (I don't think it's dull tbh) but it's not easier to climb rps since you have to have ppl to heal and rez and you can't just go solo some rps... it's you that missed that point.

And the point that you are either playing a class that is underpowered and has so many unfair weaknesses that it's a misery to play or you're kidding yourself. It's either one or the other. Whichever is correct, I think you should ask yourself why you're playing if you have no fun...

No, they don't need to, seeing as you cannot possibly catch them, however other people in the shamans group most likely can if high RR.

And not being able to solo as a cleric is no great loss if you look at modern solo rvr which is very unrewarding for the time taken, I missed no points.

Underpowered? I did not say that anywhere, but that does not mean that spellcasters are not over powered, this is still very much a spellcaster biased game, which is the original point I was making 13 pages ago or so.

 

[Asha]

First sentance makes no sense and I am giving up.

Soloing is worthless yet it's how you choose to play...ok.....

Something can't be overpowered unless there is something underpowered... If something is over powered compaired to you then you are underpowered. The end!

 

[SethNaket]

this is still very much a spellcaster biased game, which is the original point I was making 13 pages ago or so.

Of course it is when you refuse to use your best available tool against them (shield swipe/slam) and refuse to acknowledge that you have some pretty darn good anti-magic timers of your own to dump. If you would ever dare to look outside this little "I want to farm hib dualwielders" box you live in, you'd find that not only would you be much better off against those overpowered casters, you'd still be able to take out plenty of stealthers. Maybe not all stealthers and maybe not 5 at a time, but most fights would still go your way. And maybe, just maybe you'd stop with your ridiculous caster whine on these forums.

It sure didn't look that hard for the german guy in the video posted earlier, but maybe he's just better than you?

 

[Kagato]

First sentance makes no sense and I am giving up.

Soloing is worthless yet it's how you choose to play...ok.....

Something can't be overpowered unless there is something underpowered... If something is over powered compaired to you then you are underpowered. The end!

I don't see whats so difficult to understand about it.

I said unrewarding, I choose to solo because it offers the kind of fights I 'enjoy', those fights might not be the best for rps and might not be the easiest way to get rps, but I enjoy the fights when I can get them and thats what matters to me. Not how many DB's a night I get or how much rps an hour. But I guess thats also makes no sense to someone like you?

And yes something can be overpowered without something else being under powered. Tanks for the most part are fairly well balanced now against each other, we do not really need a whole lot of improvement, that does not mean spellcasters are not over powered in many many siturations, im sure as a cleric you ought to know this better then most people.

Of course it is when you refuse to use your best available tool against them (shield swipe/slam) and refuse to acknowledge that you have some pretty darn good anti-magic timers of your own to dump. If you would ever dare to look outside this little "I want to farm hib dualwielders" box you live in, you'd find that not only would you be much better off against those overpowered casters, you'd still be able to take out plenty of stealthers. Maybe not all stealthers and maybe not 5 at a time, but most fights would still go your way. And maybe, just maybe you'd stop with your ridiculous caster whine on these forums.

It sure didn't look that hard for the german guy in the video posted earlier, but maybe he's just better than you?

Funny, I thought this thread was all about comparing spellcasters vs melee, that is the subject so why should I stop talking about it so long as theres people here who wish to debate it? I suppose your just one of those silly 'he disagrees with me therefore it must be whine' types? And you say I need to think outside the box lol.

As for the german guy, I doubt it

 

[Coolan]

Completly off topic.
Kagato dont u ever sleep

 

[Asha]

Someone like me what? I don't know what that is supposed to mean.

You do care about rp's or you wouldn't bring up how other people can get them faster than you so often.

By the way you are speaking it sounds like you think casters shouldn't exist at all and there should just be a bunch of tanks slapping each other around... very fun game that would be.