The Reasons why

[Kagato.]

Quite simply still pathetic excuses from a pathetic realm, and no amount of sweet talking will change that. cowards.

but more to the point i feel that Mids got a shit deal out of this so called treaty when basicly the Hibs won't attack the Albs & Albs wont attack Hibs

Actually we had and still have every intention of going for all 6 relics, we simply havent got round to it yet.

 

[ardamels]

Originally posted by Belomar
Xajorkith, your posts are as always laughable, even if it is endearing to see you try. Ok, if White Rose is riddled with cross-realmers, I suggest you clean up your own backyard before you start blaming others. And as for you rehashing your broken record act about ninja raids, may I once again point you to the fact that ninja raids were introduced first on Excalibur by Ardamel on a Mid relic raid. You need to address this point before you are even entitled to whine about Herbal's and Lac's raids.

Or, to make things more clear:

Notice the A1 through A3 "logging points"? There is also one in the NE corner of Forest Sauvage. What do you think this means? This screenshot is dated April 22nd, 2003, long before any other "ninja raids" were conceived.

The fact of the matter still stands, that Hibs and Albs no longer do alarm clock raids. Mids are a different story, sadly enough.

It is true that I introduced the concept of ninja raids on Excalibur (as I from time to time read the VN-boards), but this raid was not a ninja raid of any kind. A ninja raid is when you use stealthers to take out the inner doors, during this raid we merely used stealthers as scouts and as a tool to kill loners running to the relic fort. Since then I've had done many raids with elements of ninja tactics in them but we never fully implemented it like Herbal and Lac have, the raids worked anyway At none of my raids the inner door has been taken down before any of the other doors were taken down, and that's a fact. I'm in two minds about ninja raids. On one hand, they may very well be harder to organize than a normal raid but they don't give the opponent the chance to react in time, on the other hand, if the tactics is used correctly, there will be no opponents to fight and no real challenge other than the organisatory challenge itself.

As for the spy issue, you seem to think that it's our problem, but it really isn't. It's everybody's problem. How do you deal with it? For me it's like a lottery whether the raid gets compromised or not, most of the times hibs and albs learn of the raid before we even start (like 2 of the relic raids on hib and the last prime time raid on alb 1 month ago). This will always be a problem and I don't think we'll be able to deal with it in any way other than to say no to spies who wants to give info or not pass info on about raids you hear about that other realms are planning. After the second raid on hib last summer, I kicked about 30 members from the alliance forum and the problem went away for some time.

For me it's slightly annoying to get raids ruined because crossrealmers can't keep their mouths shut, but I don't cry over it

P.S And BTW Mids hold the record of the fastest relic raid if the fastest one albs have done is 34 min for 2 relics. We took all 3 in less than 30 min (admittedly during a lameass morning raid), sry just had to say it

 

[old.Ramas]

On log out raids...

To my mind this is acceptable because the frontier arrangement prevents any other approach being possible in primetime. Mythic have even gone so far as to nerf logging out in specific parts of the frontier (keeps) but not in the open field - further reinforcing this as reasonable tactic imo.

As for the first to bring log out raids to excal - I'm pretty sure I'd been on a couple (and defended a couple) before Ardamel and the alarm clock wars.

On ninja raids....

The climb points exist specifically to make this possible - so I find it hard to see the problem. It even gets a half-nerf to make it more challenging but still entirely practical in the next patch, which is as much evidence as anyone should need to see that it's a reasonable tactic.
_____________

Alarm clock raiding was once a necessary evil to counter server crashes. The last few raids have shown that they are now unnecessary.

 

[pitspawn]

Originally posted by becana
9.272 activ albion chars
5.531 activ hib chars
7.040 activ mid chars

Albion 4.714 subscribers
Hibernia 2.850 subscribers
Midgard 3.577 subscribers

Continue to throw random numbers, yes alb may have the population advantage but mid have easymode (even easier now with +20% )

Keep chucking excuses all you want but its gonna get you nowhere because there is zero justification for alarm clock raids.

 

[Herbal Remedy]

Originally posted by ardamels
It is true that I introduced the concept of ninja raids on Excalibur (as I from time to time read the VN-boards), but this raid was not a ninja raid of any kind. A ninja raid is when you use stealthers to take out the inner doors, during this raid we merely used stealthers as scouts and as a tool to kill loners running to the relic fort. Since then I've had done many raids with elements of ninja tactics in them but we never fully implemented it like Herbal and Lac have, the raids worked anyway At none of my raids the inner door has been taken down before any of the other doors were taken down, and that's a fact.

snip

We will try to use ninja tactics once again, all other SBs participating in the relic raid will move inside Excalibur when the relic force attacks. They will focus on killing albs logging in inside and archer and caster NPCs.

-The 3 ram using SBs inside will hopefully be: Runolas, Lillurme and Firani.


Why use sb on the 3rd door if the other two doors are down hmmk


You may have ths sbs put the rams up 1 minutes after rams go on doors 1 n 2 but thats not really the point is it u used sbs on 3rd to gain an advantage intime. I got the idea from you ill happly admit i use this tactic funny how you and other mids seem to be ashamed u did it, did it 1st , but didnt have the balls to do it primetime

 

[ardamels]

Originally posted by Herbal Remedy
snip

We will try to use ninja tactics once again, all other SBs participating in the relic raid will move inside Excalibur when the relic force attacks. They will focus on killing albs logging in inside and archer and caster NPCs.

-The 3 ram using SBs inside will hopefully be: Runolas, Lillurme and Firani.


Why use sb on the 3rd door if the other two doors are down hmmk

As I said, elements of ninja tactics were there and there were SBs there with rams, but they were not used and hence that part of the plan was not implemented.

 

[Grandpeck]

Just listen to yourselves bitching and whining over summit that a large poportion of mid never even had any knowledge of.

Yet u all say lame mids this and wanker mids etc etc,u have a go at Ladonna for organizing a rr but shes acutally done NOTHING wrong.Im not defending Ladonna here but if she wants to organise a rr force then she will and she did.

But i dont here about the rr where albs blatently used necro los bug happily killing ppl in the tower to take relics (which was worse than any "alarm clock" RR)

There is no rule ANYWHERE about a morning rr being banned only here on the "godly" BW.

Its sad that relics were taken from u that early in the morning but theres nothing u/i or aunt flos cat can do about it now, but im sure it wont be long till u take them back (which im sure u will as soon as server is fixed)

And this doesnt bother me at all nope not at all,only thing bothers me is that the engine and servers cannot handle that amount of ppl so when it goes area 51 on us u ruin the game for everyone.

The guilds involved in the rr acted ALONE in what they did and many mids didnt know anything about this rr being planned.But with the last 2 rr being leaked via irc some ppl obviously thought screw it we take em early,and its THIER decision to do so.

I for one would have liked to have waited for the comming patches and then done a rr on u but thats me.

I find it funny that u all all here arguing like children over the actions of a few ppl.

God sake ppl listen step out of your game persona's and look at these silly posts u are writting.

 

[Herbal Remedy]

Originally posted by ardamels
As I said, elements of ninja tactics was there and there were SBs there with rams, but they were not used and hence that part of the plan was not implemented.

why plan for it for your not going to use it mebe something screwed the plan up but the fact remains, you planned for it, you where prepared to use it.

 

[Aussie-]

Ardamel = owned

 

[Herbal Remedy]

Originally posted by Grandpeck
Just listen to yourselves bitching and whining over summit that a large poportion of mid never even had any knowledge of.

Yet u all say lame mids this and wanker mids etc etc,u have a go at Ladonna for organizing a rr but shes acutally done NOTHING wrong.Im not defending Ladonna here but if she wants to organise a rr force then she will and she did.

But i dont here about the rr where albs blatently used necro los bug happily killing ppl in the tower to take relics (which was worse than any "alarm clock" RR)

There is no rule ANYWHERE about a morning rr being banned only here on the "godly" BW.

Its sad that relics were taken from u that early in the morning but theres nothing u/i or aunt flos cat can do about it now, but im sure it wont be long till u take them back (which im sure u will as soon as server is fixed)

And this doesnt bother me at all nope not at all,only thing bothers me is that the engine and servers cannot handle that amount of ppl so when it goes area 51 on us u ruin the game for everyone.

The guilds involved in the rr acted ALONE in what they did and many mids didnt know anything about this rr being planned.But with the last 2 rr being leaked via irc some ppl obviously thought screw it we take em early,and its THIER decision to do so.

I for one would have liked to have waited for the comming patches and then done a rr on u but thats me.

I find it funny that u all all here arguing like children over the actions of a few ppl.

God sake ppl listen step out of your game persona's and look at these silly posts u are writting.

It wasnt just a smal percantage of midgard tho renaris reported 200 mids on it before u hit excal, that added to the zerg guarding mmg in hw and the fgs roaming cs road means it wasnt just a few loaner mids. This wasnt a small scale raid u brought as many as 300 mids at 7 am in the morning. As for necroes lol can u dig up any more year old excuses for raiding when there no one online to defend

pls admit it mids dont want to raid when other realms can defend incase u might fail ud rather bring primetime numbers off peak to fight npcs :great:

 

[ardamels]

Originally posted by Herbal Remedy
You may have ths sbs put the rams up 1 minutes after rams go on doors 1 n 2 but thats not really the point is it u used sbs on 3rd to gain an advantage intime. I got the idea from you ill happly admit i use this tactic funny how you and other mids seem to be ashamed u did it, did it 1st , but didnt have the balls to do it primetime

I got the idea from the VN boards where hibs raided the mids in 15 min on Iseult or Lancelot I believe. I'm not ashamed at all m8, I'm glad I inspired someone actually The SBs never put up the rams on the inner doors on any of the relic raids on albion, on 1 of the failed rrs on hib we put them up and 30 sec later the authentification server went down and after that albs raided Dagda and took all the relics just to have the relics restored when the rollback came.

 

[ardamels]

Originally posted by Herbal Remedy
why plan for it for your not going to use it mebe something screwed the plan up but the fact remains, you planned for it, you where prepared to use it.

You never had any part of your plan that wasn't implemented? Then you have much to learn, young relic raider

 

[Herbal Remedy]

Originally posted by ardamels
I'm not ashamed at all m8,

funny because according to most mids its lame as fuck, id be ashamed if most of albion thought something i was doing was lame

 

[old.Nol]

Originally posted by ardamels
As for the spy issue, you seem to think that it's our problem, but it really isn't. It's everybody's problem. How do you deal with it? For me it's like a lottery whether the raid gets compromised or not, most of the times hibs and albs learn of the raid before we even start (like 2 of the relic raids on hib and the last prime time raid on alb 1 month ago). This will always be a problem and I don't think we'll be able to deal with it in any way other than to say no to spies who wants to give info or not pass info on about raids you hear about that other realms are planning. After the second raid on hib last summer, I kicked about 30 members from the alliance forum and the problem went away for some time.

For me it's slightly annoying to get raids ruined because crossrealmers can't keep their mouths shut, but I don't cry over it

P.S And BTW Mids hold the record of the fastest relic raid if the fastest one albs have done is 34 min for 2 relics. We took all 3 in less than 30 min (admittedly during a lameass morning raid), sry just had to say it

All realms have to deal with spies, as Hib had to, and it was quite easy tbh, a little effort and some patience.

With regards to hibs syping on your 2 raids, that is not true. The first raid I caught mids logging out behind Dagda, you were one of them. I caught them purely by chance, because something I like to do is run zone walls whenever the frontier gets laggy, it's for my own peace of mind. Anyone in CF will attest to it, in fact it's a bit of a joke I do it so frequently, as does Harle.

From the second I saw you I thought something was suspicious, I hung around and sure enough I saw more mids come and log off. Then a sb killed me, I didn't release, I sat and watch as more and more mids came and logged off - right in front of me.

At that point, it was pretty obvious that you were going to attempt a raid. Call me kooky if you like but I told in /as and I was right.

You were purely unlucky, if you had logged off the zone wall, i probably would never have found you.

As for the other one, I have now idea about it, I thought the other attempt failed because of a zone crash.

 

[Herbal Remedy]

Originally posted by ardamels
You never had any part of your plan that wasn't implemented? Then you have much to learn, young relic raider

Nah my plans are to well thought out for stuff to go wrong, i have back up plans for my back up plans.

 

[xajorkith]

Originally posted by Belomar
Xajorkith, your posts are as always laughable, even if it is endearing to see you try. Ok, if White Rose is riddled with cross-realmers, I suggest you clean up your own backyard before you start blaming others. And as for you rehashing your broken record act about ninja raids, may I once again point you to the fact that ninja raids were introduced first on Excalibur by Ardamel on a Mid relic raid. You need to address this point before you are even entitled to whine about Herbal's and Lac's raids.

Or, to make things more clear:

Notice the A1 through A3 "logging points"? There is also one in the NE corner of Forest Sauvage. What do you think this means? This screenshot is dated April 22nd, 2003, long before any other "ninja raids" were conceived.

The fact of the matter still stands, that Hibs and Albs no longer do alarm clock raids. Mids are a different story, sadly enough.

Ah my good friend Belomar, tis always nice to get a reply from you.

I am indeed a stuck record, and the reason for this is because the Albs are so stuck on a single point, the point you raise again, every time criticism is made of the "1 am log off raid" some alb says well Mid did this or that. Albs with their huge numbers shouldn't be concerning them selves with past raids, they should be showing the rest of the server how to raid, "1 am log off raid" doesn't do that, "the zerg realm doing a 1 am log off raid" is as bad as Mid doing an Alarm Clock raid against Alb. They are both methods to bash NPC;s instead of players.

Midgard has done poor raids I HAVE NEVER ONCE DISPUTED this, yet every post I write some Muppet says "well you did it in Feb 1879", so fucking what, get off the band wagon and better yourselves for Christ sake!

I haven't blamed anyone; I just put four facts forward.

White Rose is a huge guild we don't have any tools to help us spot x-realmers, I love the way Albs say "just do this or that", but then don't actually think things through. How do you spot someone who has traded their account? How do you spot someone who has two accounts, one on Excal\Alb one on Excal\Mid? How do you spot someone who is lending their "friend" their account? Some of the x-realmers are not cheaters, they just want to see the third realm etc, cheaters don't want to be found. The two Alb cheaters that blew the last two raids were not from WR, do you know how frustrating it is to organise Prime Time raids and some alb cheater blows it?

Why didn't Albion post on BW, "Sorry mids xxx blew your raid, we have reported him to GOA, nothing we can do about it, better luck next time", no Alb stuck 6fg in HW and kept their two spies safe.

Midgard has done "serveral" prime time raids I have personally been on two of those, it's about time Albion acknowledged this, not all prime time raids are successful my dear Belomar, did Mid get credit for those? No.

 

[Celeb]

This is a laughable thread from all sides, I guess I'm on the wrong forum though, where is the one for grown ups?

 

[ardamels]

Originally posted by old.Nol
All realms have to deal with spies, as Hib had to, and it was quite easy tbh, a little effort and some patience.

With regards to hibs syping on your 2 raids, that is not true. The first raid I caught mids logging out behind Dagda, you were one of them. I caught them purely by chance, because something I like to do is run zone walls whenever the frontier gets laggy, it's for my own peace of mind. Anyone in CF will attest to it, in fact it's a bit of a joke I do it so frequently, as does Harle.

From the second I saw you I thought something was suspicious, I hung around and sure enough I saw more mids come and log off. Then a sb killed me, I didn't release, I sat and watch as more and more mids came and logged off - right in front of me.

At that point, it was pretty obvious that you were going to attempt a raid. Call me kooky if you like but I told in /as and I was right.

You were purely unlucky, if you had logged off the zone wall, i probably would never have found you.

As for the other one, I have now idea about it, I thought the other attempt failed because of a zone crash.

When saying that the first of these 3 raids was compromised, I did not take into account that we were spotted in game, I know a bard spotted us when I was urging the LoMers to log off What I'm refering to instead is that I and several others spoke to a hib on IRC that had been offered exact info of the raid on the Wedneday the same week the raid took place and on the same day the plans were posted on the alliance forum. He refused to take part of this info, but whoever the spy was, he most likely went to someone else who gladly took the info. I don't think a majority of the hibs knew of the raid, but someone did.

 

[becana]

Originally posted by pitspawn
Continue to throw random numbers, yes alb may have the population advantage but mid have easymode (even easier now with +20% )

Keep chucking excuses all you want but its gonna get you nowhere because there is zero justification for alarm clock raids.

Lol you are realy running out of arguments I see when u finaly gave upp on defending your numbers u start crying abt mid and their easy mode.

http://daoc-stats.com/realmstats.php?server=Excalibur

and here are the numbers if you want too read them

 

[skile]

This is bullshit.

1. Albion managed to find a spot to log out at and not get spotted, midgård should be able to do the same. 1 try is not enough, if albion had 40 peeps at excal they knew something was up. Next time, prevent that, by organising better. Ofc it's possible, you are just lazy and wanna do it the easy way. Without honour and moral.

2. Albion has organised 2 big relic-raids, both primetime. Don't you think we (the BIGGEST realm) have spys also? You have to be kidding me.

 

[ardamels]

Originally posted by skile
This is bullshit.

1. Albion managed to find a spot to log out at and not get spotted, midgård should be able to do the same. 1 try is not enough, if albion had 40 peeps at excal they knew something was up. Next time, prevent that, by organising better. Ofc it's possible, you are just lazy and wanna do it the easy way. Without honour and moral.

2. Albion has organised 2 big relic-raids, both primetime. Don't you think we (the BIGGEST realm) have spys also? You have to be kidding me.

I do believe albs have issues with spies aswell, but whenever a crossrealmer comes to me to offer info of a up coming relic raid, I tell them to fuck off. I think there are some albs that don't see it the same way as I do, generalizing a tiny little bit of course...

Before any of the mids were spotted before the prime time raid in late Nov/beginning of Dec, there was an avalonian who went straight to the rendezvous point and waited there. He just stood there and after awhile he logged off, on the exact spot of the rendezvous point. You don't think that this is alittle bit suspicious? Even if albs knew mids were up to something, he shouldn't have known the exact loc for the rendezvous point. And no, I had never used that loc before.

 

[xajorkith]

Two quick questions for my Albion friends:

1) Albion has a 4 to 3 numbers advantage over Midgard ([Edit] and three stealth classes). Mythic dumped the Power Relic Keeps in remote places to help the under populated Hibs. What advantage has Mythic given Midgard to use over Albion when Midgard attempts a prime time raid against the strength relic held in Albion?

2) Which realm is the most disadvantaged when taking their “preferred” relic from an enemy?

They are simple questions, come on Albies answer them!

(I'm obviously specifically talking about our Excalibur server.)

 

[old.Nol]

Originally posted by ardamels
When saying that the first of these 3 raids was compromised, I did not take into account that we were spotted in game, I know a bard spotted us when I was urging the LoMers to log off What I'm refering to instead is that I and several others spoke to a hib on IRC that had been offered exact info of the raid on the Wedneday the same week the raid took place and on the same day the plans were posted on the alliance forum. He refused to take part of this info, but whoever the spy was, he most likely went to someone else who gladly took the info. I don't think a majority of the hibs knew of the raid, but someone did.

A someone who pretty much takes a leadership role when I am online, I can honestly say that the information was not passed onto me. The other person who leads is Saadyst, and he is not the kind of person who would use this information without the spy facing consequences.

With regards to raiding our record speaks for itself, we try to be as honourable as possible with regards to raids.

I know a number of guys who have logged off because someone has given them information and not logged back in until the raid was over.

 

[acei]

Originally posted by xajorkith
1) Albion has a 4 to 3 numbers advantage over Midgard. Mythic dumped the Power Relic Keeps in remote places to help the under populated Hibs. What advantage has Mythic given Midgard to use over Albion when Midgard attempts a prime time raid against the strength relic held in Albion?

Midgard is the strongest on Prydwen
Albion is the strongest on Excalibur

Only because each server is different in populations doesn't mean the layout of the RvR zones should be different to give advantages to realms that have lower populations.

 

[ardamels]

Originally posted by old.Nol
A someone who pretty much takes a leadership role when I am online, I can honestly say that the information was not passed onto me. The other person who leads is Saadyst, and he is not the kind of person who would use this information without the spy facing consequences.

With regards to raiding our record speaks for itself, we try to be as honourable as possible with regards to raids.

I know a number of guys who have logged off because someone has given them information and not logged back in until the raid was over.

And your ethics pays off My last 3 raids on hibs have been on prime time and future ones (planned and executed by me) will be aswell. You know you can raid us prime time, and I know mids can raid you prime time and that's what we do. In retrospect I just wished the albs would've gotten the same treatment.

 

[bracken_woodman]

Originally posted by censi
Noble of you to try and express your motives in such a polite and honest fashion.

However reading between the lines, basically you are saying you cant do a normal primetime raid because it will fail.

Hibernia has proven that it can be done with a reasonably well sized army smack bang in the middle of primetime. (pls provide and answer to that)

The mild truth is that you took the easy option to suceed.

The harsher truth is that you took the cowards option from the realm that doesnt like communicating and waging war according to its agreed terms.

The consequences (the most important thing) is that we will go back to the dark ages in camelots history ( no pun intended ) where the theme and realm war content is lost.... buried depth amoung the wanton hoardres of powergamers, hellbent on domination.

you have acheived your goal.

If it hadn't of been you it would have been someone else with their own remarkably similar justifications......

nether the less, you should still feel ashamed.

Exactly what he said. Midgard is well capable of doing primetime raids. They've done it before and can do it again. Hibs have proved it can be done with smaller numbers. And as for the spies excuse, well it's just laughable.

 

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by xajorkith
I am indeed a stuck record, and the reason for this is because the Albs are so stuck on a single point, the point you raise again, every time criticism is made of the "1 am log off raid" some alb says well Mid did this or that. Albs with their huge numbers shouldn't be concerning them selves with past raids, they should be showing the rest of the server how to raid, "1 am log off raid" doesn't do that, "the zerg realm doing a 1 am log off raid" is as bad as Mid doing an Alarm Clock raid against Alb. They are both methods to bash NPC;s instead of players.

Sorry, I seem to have missed when we did a raid where we logged out at 1am. A reminder again: at our last successful relic raid, WE WERE SPOTTED LOGGING OUT by Mids, who reported it to their alliance, and you did... nothing. You were warned we were going to raid, and yet because you were so damn sure that Albs couldn't organise a decent raid, you did... nothing.

Midgard has done poor raids I HAVE NEVER ONCE DISPUTED this, yet every post I write some Muppet says "well you did it in Feb 1879", so fucking what, get off the band wagon and better yourselves for Christ sake!

From someone who's realm has just done a reallly lame raid, the words "get off the bandwagon and better yourselves" seem more than a little like hypocrisy.

Midgard has done "serveral" prime time raids I have personally been on two of those, it's about time Albion acknowledged this, not all prime time raids are successful my dear Belomar, did Mid get credit for those? No.

Yes, you did. Last time you tried a big raid I, amongst others, said well done for trying. I have nothing but respect for people who try a relic raid at primetime. I have nothing but contempt for people who take the easy road of setting their alarmclocks.

 

[iorlas]

Midgard has done "serveral" prime time raids I have personally been on two of those, it's about time Albion acknowledged this, not all prime time raids are successful my dear Belomar, did Mid get credit for those? No.

I also posted well done Mids good try. As did many albs.

 

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by ardamels
And your ethics pays off My last 3 raids on hibs have been on prime time and future ones (planned and executed by me) will be aswell. You know you can raid us prime time, and I know mids can raid you prime time and that's what we do. In retrospect I just wished the albs would've gotten the same treatment.

Unfortunately Ardamels, your realm mates have proved to us that doing things the right way doesn't make any difference: once Mids fail a couple of times, out come the alarm clocks and the excuses.

 

[elewyth]

Your all fucking tards, claiming that ALB's are honourable, ffs they have almost dbl the player base when zerging, jesus if every mid and every hib could somehow get into Mjoll together wed still be outnumberd and the albs would still zerg thru and take the relics, if you dont see that your fooling yourself.

i dont personally agree with alarm clock relic raids, but like i said before QQ nothing you can do about it, whining aint gonna get your relics back, think your big and brave flaming the raid leader? no your not...you just looking stupid by denying the facts that are staring you in the face, the so called agreement benefits albs and hibs only, mids got the raw deal from it, sure weve done some primetime raids, but for varying reasons, spies, sheer numbers they almost always fail, even if mid god word of an alb RR, we still couldnt stop it, we just dont have a large enough force.