RVR for order is a joke

[00dave]

Admitedly I've only played on one realm but it seems to be a problem that all servers are facing and I'm actually getting to the point now where I'm considering not continuing my account after my free 30 days.

I've played in a pug and in a group with my guild on team speak, and still we cannot seem to stop the ridiculously overpowered bullshit that is the destruction zerg. Considering this was supposed to be a game of tactics and not zergathons, can someone explain to me why a destruction zerg will decimate the orders entire team 9 times out of 10.

Personally I think it's because some of the order classes are broken, one of our two tank classes is totally rubbish at tanking and one of our melee dps can hardly do enough damage to take out a healer who spam heals himself.

So far I've only experienced tier 1 and 2 but from the look of the map on our realm this problem will continue up until the point where our city will be raided on a weekly if not daily basis.

Please please please tell me things are going to imporve because at this rate people will flock to destruction so that they can actually win things (the only thing stopping me from doing it is my RL friends). And without that challenge what will be the point in playing a game that is heavily RVR based. Might as well go back to warcraft if thats the case.

 

[MephTheLaw]

Admitedly I've only played on one realm but it seems to be a problem that all servers are facing and I'm actually getting to the point now where I'm considering not continuing my account after my free 30 days.

I've played in a pug and in a group with my guild on team speak, and still we cannot seem to stop the ridiculously overpowered bullshit that is the destruction zerg. Considering this was supposed to be a game of tactics and not zergathons, can someone explain to me why a destruction zerg will decimate the orders entire team 9 times out of 10.

Personally I think it's because some of the order classes are broken, one of our two tank classes is totally rubbish at tanking and one of our melee dps can hardly do enough damage to take out a healer who spam heals himself.

So far I've only experienced tier 1 and 2 but from the look of the map on our realm this problem will continue up until the point where our city will be raided on a weekly if not daily basis.

Please please please tell me things are going to imporve because at this rate people will flock to destruction so that they can actually win things (the only thing stopping me from doing it is my RL friends). And without that challenge what will be the point in playing a game that is heavily RVR based. Might as well go back to warcraft if thats the case.

Magnus at lv30 gets a aoe range "suck in" bolt and then instant pbaoes, so no it doesn't.

Wait till they get the choppa and other tank, it was even gayer in beta.

 

[00dave]

Magnus at lv30 gets a aoe range "suck in" bolt and then instant pbaoes, so no it doesn't.

Excellent use of the quote there meph, to which part of my 5 paragraph post were you refering. Not that it would make any sense anyway.

 

[MephTheLaw]

Excellent use of the quote there meph, to which part of my 5 paragraph post were you refering. Not that it would make any sense anyway.

"So far I've only experienced tier 1 and 2 but from the look of the map on our realm this problem will continue up until the point where our city will be raided on a weekly if not daily basis"

 

[Mabs]

Admitedly I've only played on one realm but it seems to be a problem that all servers are facing and I'm actually getting to the point now where I'm considering not continuing my account after my free 30 days.

I've played in a pug and in a group with my guild on team speak, and still we cannot seem to stop the ridiculously overpowered bullshit that is the destruction zerg. Considering this was supposed to be a game of tactics and not zergathons, can someone explain to me why a destruction zerg will decimate the orders entire team 9 times out of 10.

Personally I think it's because some of the order classes are broken, one of our two tank classes is totally rubbish at tanking and one of our melee dps can hardly do enough damage to take out a healer who spam heals himself.

So far I've only experienced tier 1 and 2 but from the look of the map on our realm this problem will continue up until the point where our city will be raided on a weekly if not daily basis.

Please please please tell me things are going to imporve because at this rate people will flock to destruction so that they can actually win things (the only thing stopping me from doing it is my RL friends). And without that challenge what will be the point in playing a game that is heavily RVR based. Might as well go back to warcraft if thats the case.

have a long hard look at bright wizards

have a long hard look at warrior priests

shut up and fuck off , or put up and shut up

 

[Lembit]

have a long hard look at bright wizards

have a long hard look at warrior priests

shut up and fuck off , or put up and shut up

Agree, and would also like to add the engineers (spelling) who also get a "suck em in" thingy.

 

[Tallen]

have a long hard look at bright wizards

have a long hard look at warrior priests

shut up and fuck off , or put up and shut up

I'm reliably told that Bright wizards are on par with Sorcs at high level, but i don't play either. That being said i have been obliterated by both plenty of times

I know for a fact that WP's were in beta very slightly inferior to DoK in the damage department at high level, but not by much. Tested both quite extensively in beta. Also pitted them 1v1 and the result is purely down to player timing and skill, with 2 evenly matched players they will stand-off indefinitely.

With the WP 1v1 i could kill a chosen and a marauder and walk away on 100% HP, with the DoK i could kill an ironbreaker and a white lion with the same result. They are so similar in power and ability it's hard to say which is better overall.

Can't comment on how the classes have changed since closed beta im afraid as i haven't played either beyond T2 yet since release.

 

[Ch3tan]

It's simply your server ignus. On hirn the balance between des and order is pretty fair, and order tend to kick destructions arse more often than not. I do agree that des seems more powerful early on, now I am approaching the end of tier 2 my Ironbreaker is a lot better than he was at the start of tier 2. The abilities I have unlocked make it more balanced.

I would just wait and see, there will obviously be problems, and if they are widespread then they will get sorted in patches eventually. No game is ever perfect from the off.

 

[00dave]

have a long hard look at bright wizards

have a long hard look at warrior priests

shut up and fuck off , or put up and shut up

Why don't you shut up and fuck off. If these classes are giving you trouble you must be shit because my warrior priest cannot outheal the damage being done to him as his heals are all hots and his damage is rubbish. I haven't played a BW but if they're the only decent class on teh order side no wonder we're losing so badly.


And thank you Ch3tan for you constructive comments and for suprisingly remembering my old barrysworld name

 

[ECA]

have a long hard look at bright wizards

have a long hard look at warrior priests

shut up and fuck off , or put up and shut up

tard

 

[Ch3tan]

I think you are both ignoring the smiley in mabs post, don't think he was being that serious.

There are a lot of whines an moans about the game on here, I think the majority of threads prove that everyone's experience of the game differs, and it will. We all play at different paces, on different servers with very different mixes of players and classes. What applies to one person will not apply to someone else.

 

[00dave]

I think you are both ignoring the smiley in mabs post, don't think he was being that serious.

There are a lot of whines an moans about the game on here, I think the majority of threads prove that everyone's experience of the game differs, and it will. We all play at different paces, on different servers with very different mixes of players and classes. What applies to one person will not apply to someone else.

Sounded more like a flame to be fair, smiley or no smiley it doesnt help.

Well just to prove my point, literally just now me as a warrior priest and another warrior priest chased a chaos chosen across the rvr area of troll country and could not kill him despite the fact that we had halved his health trying to fight us for a few minutes before legging it and were hitting him all the way. 1 v 1 he would have killed the other wp before I showed up.

Either all the destro on my server are trying to twink or we really are getting the rough end of the deal.

 

[Awarkle]

engineers get the magnet turret thing but thats on tinkerer line which i dont think many have gone because most of hte abilitys are a bit poo.

I just looked at that bugbears bear thing and it just sounds awful. it heals 74 every 3 seconds for 15 seconds.

I mean WOW overpowered or what

 

[Mabs]

Why don't you shut up and fuck off. If these classes are giving you trouble you must be shit because my warrior priest cannot outheal the damage being done to him as his heals are all hots and his damage is rubbish.

surely that implies your shit if your struggling to stay alive ?


and another thing on a re-read;

you said YOUR TEAM against the DISORDER ZERG. so your either overdoing the dramatics for sympathy, or your trying to take out 24 people ( i presume being a full WB) with 6 people and failing ?

and on a more constructive note, it depends on the level range

you go into a 11-21 battleground, with everyone lvl 11, bumped to 18
if they have everyone at 21, they will still be "orange con" and more importantly your missing TEN LEVELS of SKILLS AND ABILITIES, which will lose it for you anyway ?

 

[00dave]

surely that implies your shit if your struggling to stay alive ?

not really, hots are no good when you're having big chunks of health taken away from you. I can fight tanks 1 v 1 and not die but cannot actually kill them either. Any dps will utterly destroy me and destro healers seem to be allergic to dying. I played as a witch hunter and found that you had to be in the right place at the right time and have a bit of luck on your side to be effective.

With reguards to the destro zerg, I was actually refering to scenario play where pug or not we cannot hold back the destro zerg. RVR wise the overwelming numbers makes the whole thing pointless but thats not a class balance problem as such.

My PVE experience has been absolutely fantastic so far and I'm really enjoying the huge content in bite sized chunks but I really feel that as a RVR based game it's just not working for us on axe bite pass order. I was warned after open beta that axe bite pass was going to be populated by Russians, and we all know the filthy reds don't play by the rules, perhaps thats the problem.

 

[Mabs]

not really, hots are no good when you're having big chunks of health taken away from you. I can fight tanks 1 v 1 and not die but cannot actually kill them either. Any dps will utterly destroy me and destro healers seem to be allergic to dying

what lvl are you ?

you should have an absorb shield of some type , basic spell, and an insta single heal as a morale ability tier 1, and potions

 

[Belisar]

It seems to me that tank wise Order does struggle. But it does make up for it in other ways.

If you get a decent set up of tanks against you and they push hard then life becomes quite difficult (I am assuming you are not talking about taking keeps but are talking about scenarios).

The server I am on seems to see order doing well. We lack healing classes in general (i.e. lots of peeps have gone dps) but when we get a healer or two in our group we can do pretty well.

Seen a lot of BWizzies top the damage tables in scenarios. Have seen peeps dismiss engineers but they do well also and have some decent other functions if played well.

The Order healing seems to need you to hit the right combo of spells in order to maximise the benefit. HoT does not help if the target is taking serious damage and some of the single heals have a long(ish) cast. The healers I know are experimenting to find the right way to do things and some are doing a damn fine job (I die a lot without them).

Seems to me there are pro's and cons both sides.

 

[Iorlas]

not really, hots are no good when you're having big chunks of health taken away from you. I can fight tanks 1 v 1 and not die but cannot actually kill them either. Any dps will utterly destroy me and destro healers seem to be allergic to dying. I played as a witch hunter and found that you had to be in the right place at the right time and have a bit of luck on your side to be effective.

With reguards to the destro zerg, I was actually refering to scenario play where pug or not we cannot hold back the destro zerg. RVR wise the overwelming numbers makes the whole thing pointless but thats not a class balance problem as such.

My PVE experience has been absolutely fantastic so far and I'm really enjoying the huge content in bite sized chunks but I really feel that as a RVR based game it's just not working for us on axe bite pass order. I was warned after open beta that axe bite pass was going to be populated by Russians, and we all know the filthy reds don't play by the rules, perhaps thats the problem.

I strongly suggest you get some advice from an experianced WP no disrespect but if your dieing like you say you are you need some help.

 

[00dave]

I strongly suggest you get some advice from an experianced WP no disrespect but if your dieing like you say you are you need some help.

I'm dying a lot because the destro just zerg and we fail to hold that zerg back because order lack tanks and decent ones at that. As a wp the best way to heal is to find a lone target and use divine assault to keep yourself alive and use your other heals to keep the tanks alive, but the problem is that the zerg quickly overwelms the rest of your team and quickly surrounds you preventing your escape.

If your idea of healing is to spam divine aid, healing hand and supplication throughout the fight then congratulations you're still alive but overall your contribution to your group is less than mine. I'm normally top of the healing with reasonable damage done but also generally the most deaths.

And with reguards to the rank 1 morale ability, well sure it does heal quite a bit, but morale abilities do still seem to be bugged and you can hammer the quick key many times and it not actually work, and with a 60 sec cooldown it's hardly a spammable ability.

 

[Billargh]

This is why there should be more than two 'realms'. Ye ye obviously hard in the Warhammer universe, but you get the idea.

 

[Soazak]

I'm not sure what server you play but sounds like you have it pretty bad, there is nothing wrong with Order, at all.

They have some great classes, tbh the game is incredibly balanced which is very suprising seeing as it's only 2 weeks off the shelf.


Order have a range of classes that are better than destro and destro have a load that are better than Orders, tier1 and 2 are certainly not enough to judge the entire game.

Most of the problems you highlighted are not specific to order, you have most of the same abilities.

And zergs? most of the EU servers are fairly equal, and even so most of the pvp so far is in scenarios.


Honestly, if you're having trouble healing yourself as a WP in the lower tiers I think you're doing it wrong, it only becomes hard when people start getting their healing debuffs in tier3+ (not sure if anyone gets them in t2).

 

[Soazak]

I'm dying a lot because the destro just zerg and we fail to hold that zerg back because order lack tanks and decent ones at that.

Also, Iron Breaker is probably the best tank in the game at the moment imo, and there are an awful lot of them on KEP, apparently people aint rolling them because they're dwarfs and not as 'cool' looking as a full plate Kotbs, but then again those 'sort' of people are probably bad anyway.

 

[00dave]

After a bit of reading on other forums around the internet I'm becoming more and more convinced you guys are deluding yourselves or you all play destro and are trying to play this whole thing down.

The Escapist : News : First Warhammer Online City Siege Gets Failing Marks

a sign of things to come I think.

Since release on axe bit pass the destros have had all of the keeps throughout all tiers and as a result getting renown gear has been very difficult. Only recently have order been taking back some keeps, but if we hold them for longer than a few hours I think it's a real achievement.

 

[pikeh]

also, iron breaker is probably the best tank in the game at the moment imo, and there are an awful lot of them on kep, apparently people aint rolling them because they're dwarfs and not as 'cool' looking as a full plate kotbs, but then again those 'sort' of people are probably bad anyway.

qft!

 

[pez]

On most servers you will find a big lack in Order tanks and to a lesser extent healers. End of the day, BO/Chosen/Zealot/Shaman are just cooler than SM/IB/RP/AM. I expect this will even out in end game but low tier order is usually just BW/WH spam that gets overwhelmed by shaman healed tank trains.

 

[Bullitt]

Without getting in to a class analysis geeky spiel, all I can say from personal experience is that it seems pretty balanced to me. In fact Order have won more times than not.

 

[Soazak]

Since release on axe bit pass the destros have had all of the keeps throughout all tiers and as a result getting renown gear has been very difficult. Only recently have order been taking back some keeps, but if we hold them for longer than a few hours I think it's a real achievement.

Thats probably more a population issue rather than a class balance issue. As well as leveling speeds etc, the whole altdorf thing was a little overplayed, the keep bug helped a lot apparently and there were not many high lvl Order players around to defend (being late night on a weekday etc).

The only notable differences in Destro classes imo is Marauder > WL.

On most servers you will find a big lack in Order tanks and to a lesser extent healers. End of the day, BO/Chosen/Zealot/Shaman are just cooler than SM/IB/RP/AM. I expect this will even out in end game but low tier order is usually just BW/WH spam that gets overwhelmed by shaman healed tank trains.

Surely the sort of people that will refuse to play a dwarf because they are short/not cool enough/dont wear EPIC PALADIN LOLZ PLATE ARMOR etc are the 12year olds who would just be terrible anyway?

as I said above, there are tons of IBs/Swordmasters on KEP, as well as Runepriests, last few Tor Anrocs i've been in there were plenty of RPs and no Zealots

 

[Vepo]

I think L2P comes to mind!

I love my Chaotic Rift ability to use in Scenarios, but both side of these scenarios win and lose. It all depends on the people that are there playing. Just because you and your guild suck doesn't mean that destro are overpowered.

Hope you're on Eight Peaks ... I wouldn't mind slapping you with my staff a few times

 

[Xphyral]

Admitedly I've only played on one realm but it seems to be a problem that all servers are facing and I'm actually getting to the point now where I'm considering not continuing my account after my free 30 days.

I've played in a pug and in a group with my guild on team speak, and still we cannot seem to stop the ridiculously overpowered bullshit that is the destruction zerg. Considering this was supposed to be a game of tactics and not zergathons, can someone explain to me why a destruction zerg will decimate the orders entire team 9 times out of 10.

Personally I think it's because some of the order classes are broken, one of our two tank classes is totally rubbish at tanking and one of our melee dps can hardly do enough damage to take out a healer who spam heals himself.

So far I've only experienced tier 1 and 2 but from the look of the map on our realm this problem will continue up until the point where our city will be raided on a weekly if not daily basis.

Please please please tell me things are going to imporve because at this rate people will flock to destruction so that they can actually win things (the only thing stopping me from doing it is my RL friends). And without that challenge what will be the point in playing a game that is heavily RVR based. Might as well go back to warcraft if thats the case.

your pug is hitting tanks.

 

[Turamber]

have a long hard look at warrior priests

I'm overpowered? Yay! Always wanted to be overpowered

In truth, though, we are hard to kill and, if specced salvation, very good group healers. Specced that way, though, we can barely hurt a fly. But then I've always liked flies, pretty... *mumbles to himself and falls into bed*