RVR for order is a joke

[Roo Stercogburn]

Old news tbh, mythic had many many years to balance daoc and they did with big failure.

And yet you complain in other threads about WAR and you're going back to DAoC

 

[Muylaetrix]

What on an internet forum, but that's exactly why I come here. Anonymity rules.

To stop the flame war for a minute I have had an epiphany. Perhaps our WoW background is hampering us as we're probably up against ex DAoC players who have a tiny advantage with reguards to play style. WoW was a very low skill game that could be summed up with the formula: gear + addons = win. Never played DAoC so this theory is purely speculation.

congrats, your first decent post in this thread.

the difference between 6 year daoc pvp veterans and players who have never played daoc for the purpose of playing rvr in war is HUGE.

what i see, and expected to see is that ex daoc pvp guilds basically rule this game for the moment.

people who played WoW will have some catching up to do and it could maybe even take months for the wow people to get on par with the daoc veteran guilds especially vs the ex daoc guilds that have been part of closed beta too and have already played this game for months.

 

[ramathorn]

you can already spot the old daoc guilds, they are the groups running with 2 (+) BW's who were ex savages. Stop dotting me, gits.

 

[Zede]

Old news tbh, mythic had many many years to balance daoc and they did with big failure. That they would manage in WaR you can forget.

I dont think they ever will,However it might get slightly better in several months but not balanced for real.Game is also in early stage but quick compare.

DAoc.

Shadowblades totally chewedup infils scouts and pure tanks in daoc the 1st 1-2 years with buffbot etc perma end and way overpowerd LA i could in basic win quite easy 1 VS 3.

Mythic let this be for some years without really knowing/careing what to do.


ps! Might also be that you are a trash pvp player and your guildgroup blows...Not saying you are but huge diffrence in GG with ppl knowing how to play and use right tactic then playing in GG with less clueless ppl

cloud cookoo land

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

you can already spot the old daoc guilds, they are the groups running with 2 (+) BW's who were ex savages. Stop dotting me, gits.

When I saw where the ex-DaoC (or whatever game) so-called 'pro' guilds were going I knew where the broken classes were as the classes started appearing on sigs.

They'll get nerfed, they'll cry, they'll reroll for the next broken class with superior advantageous abilities and the game will go on.

 

[lefo]

Considering this was supposed to be a game of tactics and not zergathons, ...

Actually Mythic did everything in their power to prevent this game to be tactical. Im sorry you tought otherwise. Remember, profit is above fun.

 

[Reno]

Afair there are not as many bridges in Warhammer as in DAoC.

Have you been to dragonwake?

 

[00dave]

Ok I'm back to fuming again.

Just been killed by a chaos marauder 1 v 1. He was level 14 and I am a level 16 WP. I used my hots and divine assault but they just could not keep up with the dps this twat was putting out. FFS yes I'm shit and very inexperienced but for you guys to tell me WP are unkillable is just bullshit. Like I said the hots CANNOT keep up when big chunks of health are coming off and as soon as the righteous fury goes that's it.

I even checked the combat log, my bludgeon was hitting him for precisely 0. Seriously what kind of defense do marauders have?

 

[Mabs]

He was level 14 and I am a level 16 WP.

was this in a lvl 11-21 BG or lvl 11-21 RVR area? because in either you will BOTH be bumped to lvl 18 stats.

 

[Spankya]

My server seems to be about 50% win for each side, but the OP moaning about Destruction classes being overpowered cant be too right... its probably just the server he's on.

From my experience, Order seem to have way more healing classes that are actually played instead of Destruction which seems to really lack healing classes on my server as the healing classes seem a bit crappy. I've played some games where Order are almost unkillable due to all the healing whilst Destruction team has 1 or no healers...

I've played various classes on both sides, and certain order classes seem way better than their Destruction equivalents which is quite noticable in pvp too. 2 that stand out are Archmage which has more dps output than a shaman yet the same healing output, and Bright Wiz which also puts out alot more dps than Sorcs in pvp. I havent seen any Destruction classes that I though were noticibly better than the Order equivalents.

 

[aika]

My server seems to be about 50% win for each side, but the OP moaning about Destruction classes being overpowered cant be too right... its probably just the server he's on.

From my experience, Order seem to have way more healing classes that are actually played instead of Destruction which seems to really lack healing classes on my server as the healing classes seem a bit crappy. I've played some games where Order are almost unkillable due to all the healing whilst Destruction team has 1 or no healers...

I've played various classes on both sides, and certain order classes seem way better than their Destruction equivalents which is quite noticable in pvp too. 2 that stand out are Archmage which has more dps output than a shaman yet the same healing output, and Bright Wiz which also puts out alot more dps than Sorcs in pvp. I havent seen any Destruction classes that I though were noticibly better than the Order equivalents.

You might wanna ask how are your fellow Witch Elfs, Marauders, DoKs and Black Orcs doing

 

[Turamber]

Ok I'm back to fuming again.

I really don't think the War Priest is for you. It is a utility/support character. You can either spec it for survivability and healing or you can spec it for doing (relatively) crappy DPS.

That you would lose in a 1v1 versus a pure DPS class is hardly a surprise. As you level and you get more skills you will take a lot more punishment, but you will never be the solo PvP god you seem to think you deserve to be.

This game is balanced around RvR, not solo PvP - perhaps it is not the game for you?

 

[dee777]

Ok I'm back to fuming again.

Just been killed by a chaos marauder 1 v 1. He was level 14 and I am a level 16 WP. I used my hots and divine assault but they just could not keep up with the dps this twat was putting out. FFS yes I'm shit and very inexperienced but for you guys to tell me WP are unkillable is just bullshit. Like I said the hots CANNOT keep up when big chunks of health are coming off and as soon as the righteous fury goes that's it.

I even checked the combat log, my bludgeon was hitting him for precisely 0. Seriously what kind of defense do marauders have?

You gotta be kidding. You wonder why a melee DPS class dominates a healer class in 1v1? For real? Stop whining.

And the reason you hit him for 0 is very likely that he used a shield potion (or got a shield from a hidden groupmember).

 

[Iceforge]

Old news tbh, mythic had many many years to balance daoc and they did with big failure. That they would manage in WaR you can forget.

I dont think they ever will,However it might get slightly better in several months but not balanced for real.Game is also in early stage but quick compare.

DAoc.

Shadowblades totally chewedup infils scouts and pure tanks in daoc the 1st 1-2 years with buffbot etc perma end and way overpowerd LA i could in basic win quite easy 1 VS 3.

Mythic let this be for some years without really knowing/careing what to do.


ps! Might also be that you are a trash pvp player and your guildgroup blows...Not saying you are but huge diffrence in GG with ppl knowing how to play and use right tactic then playing in GG with less clueless ppl

and followed it up by nerfing the Shadowblade to oblivion and making them completely subpair to the infil and nightshade, but guess you played Alb or Hib, so was one of those who denied that.

(Played both, infil doing more than 2 times as much damage with each swing at same speed as my SB could, which was 1-2 years post LA-nerf)

 

[Iceforge]

Ok I'm back to fuming again.

Just been killed by a chaos marauder 1 v 1. He was level 14 and I am a level 16 WP. I used my hots and divine assault but they just could not keep up with the dps this twat was putting out. FFS yes I'm shit and very inexperienced but for you guys to tell me WP are unkillable is just bullshit. Like I said the hots CANNOT keep up when big chunks of health are coming off and as soon as the righteous fury goes that's it.

I even checked the combat log, my bludgeon was hitting him for precisely 0. Seriously what kind of defense do marauders have?

Okay, let me help you out a bit!

This is very basic and often wrong, due to factors like player skills, but you can have a look at this games classes like Rock Paper Scissor, you know, where Paper beats Rock, Scissor beats Paper, Rock beats Scissor, you know the game I hope?

Anyway, 1 class is another classes bane

We got 4 arch-types of classes (Melee DPS, Ranged DPS, Tanks and Healers), lets take 3 of those (Healers, Tanks, Melee DPS)

Healer > Tank
Melee DPS > Healer
Tank > Melee DPS

Thats a cycle for 1 vs 1, lets replace that with some classes

Shaman > Sword Master
Witch Hunter > Shaman
Sword Master > Witch Elf (Destruction equal of Witch Hunter)

And that is also a cycle

You are NOT supposed to play a healer and beat a melee DPS class.

Actually, you are not supposed to beat ANY DPS class, Melee or Ranged.

Ofc it is going to be much more advanced than this, I could not include ranged DPS because there are other factors there.

Melee DPS vs Ranged DPS will depend on who gets the jump, how far are they from each other at start of combat, what CC abilities does each of them have ready, and so forth.

this is not WoW in which Any class should be able to kill Any Class
This is an important mindset to loose!
Right mindset: If you play a class X you should ALWAYS expect to loose to class Y, no matter what you do, unless Y screws up big time!

 

[Thimble]

And as far as hitting for 0 dmg. Doesn't melee classes get an absorbtion shield proc career core 1 ability. You're probably not hitting for much so it could of absorbed it.
Also, at low level's WP's can take a beating and deal out some dmg. At lvl 11 I could beat most classes quite easily on my WP. After lvl 20 other classes start to come into their own. With better gear they mitigate more dmg and with better abilities they deal more dmg. They also have survivability tactics they didn't have at lvl 11. At some time pre lvl 25 Marauders get an ability that disables you. If they wait until you're around 50% health and disable you before you can smack an insta heal they'll likely kill you.

 

[Belisar]

From my experience, Order seem to have way more healing classes that are actually played instead of Destruction which seems to really lack healing classes on my server as the healing classes seem a bit crappy.

Interesting as my perspective is different.

My destro toon is a shammy (low level atm admittedly so it may change as it gets higher) and I find it pretty good at healing. Afaik the basic healing abilities are similar on both sides. My experience is that often healers want to go and do some damage and that means they lose some focus on the healing. I find I am pretty effective if I concentrate on healing and leave the damage to someone else.

It seems to me to be hard to play a utility toon as you are not especially strong in any one area and the heals are not good at getting you from a low to high level that quickly.

 

[Aurelius LH]

Almost completely agree with Iceforge, and the bit I 'disagree' with is most likely part of his more advanced explanation

You are NOT supposed to play a healer and beat a melee DPS class.

Actually, you are not supposed to beat ANY DPS class, Melee or Ranged.

Ofc it is going to be much more advanced than this, I could not include ranged DPS because there are other factors there.

I don't think I've seen a pure archetype class healer in WAR, the ones I've played - ironically for this thread, since I've not tried Warrior Priest - need to balance their healing with some other activities for it to be as useful as possible. The main class for this is Archmage, my personal favourite but if you don't chuck in damage spells, your healing is far inferior to what it can be if you balance the magic types.

I'm a little surprised a WP lost to a lower level Marauder, though as has been said the use of potions, maybe hidden allies, or some other factors might have swung the fight - but if I get the timing right I know I can stand up against and kill a Marauder or Chosen of lower level than my Archmage (currently only 18 though, so that could well change as levels hopefully go up!) IF they are solo and daft enough to stay around. Takes a while, but the DoTs get them every time if they forget to watch their health and get carried away hitting me, I can (unless I screw up the timing!) heal more damage incoming than they can put out...

Guaranteed stalemate for hours = me fighting a Zealot, even a couple of levels difference doesn't alter the madness when we both heal ourselves faster than the other can damage us....

The times I'm certain to die? Ambushed by a sneaking dark elf is a guaranteed death. Not noticing that bloody Squig Herder whose pet is hitting me while he drops tons of arrows on me, and I'm trying to heal the rest of the people in the fight. (Everyone dies if they lose attention on their health bar. Everyone. Even lumps of solid granite like Ironbreakers ) Being caught by two or more melee types who hit so often they interrupt anything I cast, or a caster who uses spells that interrupt me while htheir fighter friend beats the crap out of me.

In multiple person fights lately, especially at keep defences, when some sneaky marauder gets into position and knocks me miles into his allies. Bloody clever tactic that, even if I'm on the receiving end I appreciate the planning! Generally, death feels on average every 10 minutes of playtime in PvP, and 30 soloing PvE - and the game is still bloody good fun!

Serious suggestion for the OP though is to try other classes - it does sound like, as others have said, WP isn't suiting your playstyle or fitting your picture of how it should work, so give the others a go even if it's just as a break from the WP. If you get too hung up on that failing for you, you'll end up not enjoying the game and that would be a shame if you conclude that before you've tried it all out.

 

[Muylaetrix]

and followed it up by nerfing the Shadowblade to oblivion and making them completely subpair to the infil and nightshade, but guess you played Alb or Hib, so was one of those who denied that.

(Played both, infil doing more than 2 times as much damage with each swing at same speed as my SB could, which was 1-2 years post LA-nerf)

opinions

shadowblades were the only class that could oneshot my wizard...

2handed PA with a crit = dead wizard with 650 AF, 1700 HP and all resists capped. (/waves at fujiwata)

 

[Ribbit]

I've got a feeling the OP would rather enjoy playing the Ironbreaker.

Yes you still have to learn how to play your class, but that can be quite fast, if you concentrate on a few core necessities until you get in the swing of things to start with, then add on your new abilities at your own pace.

I tried one last night. I tell you this, a Dwarf with a big assed 2h axe is a heck of a lot of fun.

Yes you will be reliant on others on the team, and won't be able to do it all yourself.

But in this game, that goes the same for everyone, no matter what they are playing. This is probably the best big team game I have ever played (and I played DAoC for almost 7 years including closed beta). As such, it will take time to adjust and get up to speed as a team player, but the gaming rewards you will get for doing so, will be outstanding.

It 'might' even pay you to play a more dedicated healer like a Runepriest for a bit, so you can see how other people play the different classes. The good players will stick out a mile for you when you are in that role, and you will quickly learn to support them to the max, as the team then gets the maximum return on your efforts.

By watching how they play, you will be on a very fast track learning curve, and when you then try playing that class, you will have one heck of a headstart.

Good luck finding the class that really suits you to get started with, I'm sure there's at least one there just begging for you to play it.

PS. I tried a Witch Hunter. Ouch! Nice class, just not my playstyle at all, hehe.

 

[Cylian]

opinions

shadowblades were the only class that could oneshot my wizard...

2handed PA with a crit = dead wizard with 650 AF, 1700 HP and all resists capped. (/waves at fujiwata)

SB:
6 month of being 'wierd' (LA didn't affect the offhand, Axe spec did)
1 year of being overpowered (fixed LA mechanics, style damage boost anyway)
5 years of being the Gimp-O-Stealth
1+ year balanced with other stealthers

1700dmg is quite possible for an infil too, both weapons combined ofc

 

[Muylaetrix]

1700dmg is quite possible for an infil too, both weapons combined ofc

well it`s not a one shot then, is it
and with a dual wield attack, second attack will bounce of on the blade turn.

 

[Cylian]

well it`s not a one shot then, is it
and with a dual wield attack, second attack will bounce of on the blade turn.

PA breaks the Bladeturn, we aren't Scouts! Both weapons hit at the same time, just a matter of damage being listed in your log

 

[00dave]

Healer > Tank
Melee DPS > Healer
Tank > Melee DPS

Thats not quite right for a start. Healers dont beat tanks, they don't have enough dps to dent them, but if by some miracle they manage to keep on top of healing during a lengthy fight and take the tanks health down, all he does is run away making it all pointless. I don't think there is a class in the game that could kill a black orc in 1v1, once they realise they can't win they have plenty of time to run to safety.

your little formula there doesn't really work as most people have already stated that this isn't a 1v1 game it's team based.

You are NOT supposed to play a healer and beat a melee DPS class.

Actually, you are not supposed to beat ANY DPS class, Melee or Ranged.

It isn't the defeat that bothered me so much, it's the relative ease in which he managed it. I don't think I even got him down the half health. And after checking the combat log it appeared every 3rd hit was a crit of 200, I had all my hots on me and used potions but still my health was going down to fast. This contradicts the people that have been saying warrior priests don't die because I was taken out in under a minute by a lower level.

this is not WoW in which Any class should be able to kill Any Class
This is an important mindset to loose!
Right mindset: If you play a class X you should ALWAYS expect to loose to class Y, no matter what you do, unless Y screws up big time!

You didn't play WoW did you? Any class could NOT beat any class at all. Most classes had their counter class but because blizzard listened to the high end players moaning that they couldn't kill quickly enough, they continued to buff certain classes until they were stronger than their counter class.

For example a rogues counter was a warrior but when I stopped playing rogues chewed through warriors and no longer had a counter class.

Druids were supposed to be a hybrid class and could choose which area to excel at, but after the continued buffing they are now tanks that can heal better than any other class.

 

[Iceforge]

opinions

shadowblades were the only class that could oneshot my wizard...

2handed PA with a crit = dead wizard with 650 AF, 1700 HP and all resists capped. (/waves at fujiwata)

1 shot PA with my Infil was, while rare, still something that happened.

Can't remember accurately anymore, but quite sure my highest PA with infil was 19xx in total when including off-hand.

And 2handed shadowblade was a 1 trick wonder; PA casters. Everything else = you're dead.
Meet another stealther and they would evade your attacks like there was no tomorrow, ofc you could switch, but that required still spec'ing LA and with lower spec points than infil that meant you could not cap your 2handed PA as you should have aimed for to be successfull in the 1 hit wonder area, i.e. 1 shooting casters

 

[Septima]

Nerf engineers...three of them in a scenario and it's a fucking lag fest! That's OP imo...

 

[ClaretMatt]

Ahem


WAAAAGH WAAAAGH WAAAAGH WAAAGH :'(

That is all

 

[Iceforge]

Thats not quite right for a start. Healers dont beat tanks, they don't have enough dps to dent them

I do with my healer, nothing like kiting a tank off to a 1 on 1 and then do your think, stay on 90-100% HP all the fight while they HP just keep on falling

but if by some miracle they manage to keep on top of healing during a lengthy fight and take the tanks health down, all he does is run away making it all pointless.

Pursue OR be glad you can get back to your main job: HEALING

I don't think there is a class in the game that could kill a black orc in 1v1, once they realise they can't win they have plenty of time to run to safety.

Not face a black orc, as I am destruction, but no tank in Order I haven't killed 1on1, even when they try running away.

your little formula there doesn't really work as most people have already stated that this isn't a 1v1 game it's team based.

Which is also why I said it is more advanced than that and also why no class is designed so it can kill all other classes in 1on1, as that would not encourage group/realm coorperation, which is the main goal of this game, which is also the point I tried to make to you, but you somehow missed even through it was, without saying it directly, quite obvious from the end of my post

It isn't the defeat that bothered me so much, it's the relative ease in which he managed it. I don't think I even got him down the half health.

And you should not get him below half health; He is your bane. A Tank should not get me below 80% HP in melee if I do my job right, sure, they get me to 30% or so when I pull them away for the stand-off, but takes no time for me to get back to 100% even with them beating on me like mad

And after checking the combat log it appeared every 3rd hit was a crit of 200, I had all my hots on me and used potions but still my health was going down to fast. This contradicts the people that have been saying warrior priests don't die because I was taken out in under a minute by a lower level.

Maybe what you did was not optimal; Sorry, if others do it, and you don't, there are 2 explainations:

1) You are doing it wrong
2) Your opponent was better than their opponent.

You didn't play WoW did you?

NO!

Any class could NOT beat any class at all.

I talked about a mind-set that many WoW players seem to have

Most classes had their counter class but because blizzard listened to the high end players moaning that they couldn't kill quickly enough, they continued to buff certain classes until they were stronger than their counter class.

Which is why you should not whine now, but look-i-loo what you're doing

For example a rogues counter was a warrior but when I stopped playing rogues chewed through warriors and no longer had a counter class.

Which is very bad

Druids were supposed to be a hybrid class and could choose which area to excel at, but after the continued buffing they are now tanks that can heal better than any other class.[/QUOTE]

 

[Overdriven]

Ahem


WAAAAGH WAAAAGH WAAAAGH WAAAGH :'(

That is all

My butt spoke!

 

[griralith]

dave00 vs dave00 32-32, whos gonna get the next owngoal...