RVR for order is a joke

[klasa]

When you are playing scenarios you sometimes end up with players that knows how to play and then you win or with players who don't know how to play and you loose. I am saying this playing order and therfore I know that you can win if you have healers that heal, tanks that do not over extend picking squishy targets instead of......let's all hit the black orc and let there healers heal him attitude.

My conclusion is that the game is fairly balanced and if chaos wins by a big margin it's mainly the order side playing bad. The exceptions where chaos reaches the artifacts first...

 

[wittor]

1 shot PA with my Infil was, while rare, still something that happened.

Can't remember accurately anymore, but quite sure my highest PA with infil was 19xx in total when including off-hand.

How could you're Infil ever pull a PA off with that kind amount of dmg ?

It would mean your offhand hitted for 700+ dmg then and what RR was that Infil....?! I was never able to get a PA like that.

I mean WTF, my highest PA's < who where totally rare > did around 1400-1600 and then I had to crit ofc. Show me a screenshot of this!

 

[Iceforge]

How could you're Infil ever pull a PA off with that kind amount of dmg ?

It would mean your offhand hitted for 700+ dmg then and what RR was that Infil....?! I was never able to get a PA like that.

I mean WTF, my highest PA's < who where totally rare > did around 1400-1600 and then I had to crit ofc. Show me a screenshot of this!

To be fair, it was on a cloth caster who clearly did not have his AF buff, no screenshot anymore unfortunately, but it was with crit on both mainhand and off-hand, and the infil was RR9L8 fully ToA'd

EDIT:

Specced for optimal damage; Which means: 50 effective stealth, 51 effective weapon, 50 CS, 48 effective envenom and rest Dual Wield, or specificly:

31 Stealth
32 Slash
50 CS
29 Envenom
45 Dual Wield

iirc

 

[Cylian]

How could you're Infil ever pull a PA off with that kind amount of dmg ?

It would mean your offhand hitted for 700+ dmg then and what RR was that Infil....?! I was never able to get a PA like that.

I mean WTF, my highest PA's < who where totally rare > did around 1400-1600 and then I had to crit ofc. Show me a screenshot of this!

tsk, highest I got while dualwielding was 1528, with the LA penality!

 

[cHodAX]

have a long hard look at bright wizards

have a long hard look at warrior priests

100% in agreement.

 

[Ormorof]

ive noticed that (in tier 1 and 2 anyway) that there is a distinct lack on order of runepriests and archmages (heck i didnt even realise which one was primary healer until i got to t2!) whereas in scenarios and such there always seem to be alot of zealots and shamans, which is odd as they are supposed to be similar classes!!

only thing for it is to roll one myself i guess (reason i play healer classes in mmo's? because i hate not having one in groups )

 

[Stazbumpa]

I personally think that the main reason for Order losing most of the time is down to the fact that so many people play Destro, so the net for scenario RvR is cast far wider than for the Order side, and there is more chance of a large amount of Chosen, DoK's and decent players being pitted against you.

With world RvR the numbers matter, end of story. This is not a flaw with class balance, simply that far too many people are rolling Destro. Hopefully time will rectify this.

There is less of a problem for Order in scenario RvR, I've lost more than I've won but it very much depends on who we play against. When pitted against a similar team make up its usually a good game, but when against the usual mass of Chosen and DoK's then we rarely get out of our spawn zone.

I'm not about to announce that a game is unbalanced or needs fixing when I'm only just coming towards the end of Tier 2. It's down to the players choice, and for Order the tanks aren't cool enough and neither are the healers when compared to the Chosen or DoK's. In an average scenario I'm usually the only tank, or one of two, and there rarely more than a couple of healers on our team.
Yeah, we have tons of DPS, but it dies quickly under a Destro zerg because they have more healing and their front line lasts longer under fire. As I say, not really a class balance issue, but the strengths of a few classes are massively amplified when so many people are playing them.

 

[pikeh]

I don't really know why you mention DoK's so much. They are 'good' at two things, but don't excel in either.

 

[scorge]

I don't really know why you mention DoK's so much. They are 'good' at two things, but don't excel in either.

sounds like my GF... if i had one...

 

[aika]

Put Playing with Fire on a DoK and watch him kill himself by spaming hot on himself - one of my favourite activities

 

[Belisar]

Nerf engineers...three of them in a scenario and it's a fucking lag fest! That's OP imo...

Nnnnnooooo

Give me mobile turrets ... oh wait thats called a tank.

 

[Iorlas]

I personally think that the main reason for Order losing most of the time is down to the fact that so many people play Destro, so the net for scenario RvR is cast far wider than for the Order side, and there is more chance of a large amount of Chosen, DoK's and decent players being pitted against you.

With world RvR the numbers matter, end of story. This is not a flaw with class balance, simply that far too many people are rolling Destro. Hopefully time will rectify this.

There is less of a problem for Order in scenario RvR, I've lost more than I've won but it very much depends on who we play against. When pitted against a similar team make up its usually a good game, but when against the usual mass of Chosen and DoK's then we rarely get out of our spawn zone.

I'm not about to announce that a game is unbalanced or needs fixing when I'm only just coming towards the end of Tier 2. It's down to the players choice, and for Order the tanks aren't cool enough and neither are the healers when compared to the Chosen or DoK's. In an average scenario I'm usually the only tank, or one of two, and there rarely more than a couple of healers on our team.
Yeah, we have tons of DPS, but it dies quickly under a Destro zerg because they have more healing and their front line lasts longer under fire. As I say, not really a class balance issue, but the strengths of a few classes are massively amplified when so many people are playing them.

it's all very well blaming it on population imbalance but,correct me if i'm wrong ,isn't the queing to stop one side being vastly superior in number to the other?I've been in scenario's where i swear blind that we are out numbered 2/1 but we aren't it's just bad team play by destro and good play by order.Why do people keep saying the destro zerg?i see order zerging just as much, this bullcrap about being vastly outnumbered makes me laugh:lol:

 

[Ch3tan]

Wow. 7 pages and people still do not get the point. Your experience will vary by server, time of day, the people you play with... and a thousand other things. Arguing that one side is better or has more players is irrelevant. That is not what others may be seeing.

I am lucky enough to play on a fairly balanced server, or so it seems when I log in. The only time order get wiped out in rvr is when we have no healers. Des seem very good at always making sure they have healers around that actually heal.

 

[Turamber]

I don't really know why you mention DoK's so much. They are 'good' at two things, but don't excel in either.

They put out way more DPS than the Warrior Priest, that is for sure! Don't know why some players are complaining about Warrior Priests -- if specced (and played) correctly we are great group healers and a pain in the butt to kill.

But DPS powerhouses we are not. Sounds like balance to me...

 

[Raven]

It feels like playing Hib really, always outnumbered but we try our best and when we do win you know it wasn't simply numbers that won it for you. Though I am seriously thinking about binning my Ironbreaker and switching to a healing class as there seems to be none around when you need them.

It would be nice if Mythic made the game playable in PvP though, its a slide show most of the time and thats on a £1k+ pretty much brand new PC. Add to that the huge memory leak and its fubared, not sure I would want to try and heal through that

 

[Gef]

i see order zerging just as much, this bullcrap about being vastly outnumbered makes me laugh:lol:

Your confusing scenarios (which are designed to be balanced) with Open RvR, i.e keep assaults. When you have 50 Destro defending a keep its unlikely that 20 Order will be able to capture it. Hence, its unbalanced..

I'm on a server which is basically full on both sides at peak time, I have a maybe 50 queue on Order and the Destro guys I have seen queues up to 800.

So currently its fairly balanced, but I think if some Order guys up and leave it will change. But currently I would say Order actually dominate Dest by some way, i'm currently running Phoenix Gate, I have run it maybe 50 times and i'd say only lost 15 times and usually thats due to massive level differences..

The keeps in Tier 2 always seem to be in Order hands, if they aren't they are usually under attack.

It would be nice if Mythic made the game playable in PvP though, its a slide show most of the time and thats on a £1k+ pretty much brand new PC. Add to that the huge memory leak and its fubared, not sure I would want to try and heal through that

I just bought a new PC for £600 and its perfect, even with everything on maximum. I think a lot is to do with memory, < 4Gig and its going to grind with lots on screen..

 

[Pils]

this is a ridiculus thread, both the destuction and the order has pretty much the same lineupp, both sides got equal classes sorc/bright wh/we and so on..

currently playing on hirn and well atleast in t3 we in destruction are having a hard time keeping up with the order since most of them seem to have chosen a disgusting dwarf or a bright wizard.
THE ONE AND ONLY matter in RVR on our side is weather or not the classes are doing what they were designed to do.. should look for dmg done and healing done for the classes..
or don't look since healers rarly do their job and same goes for meele dps.. it's just upsetting
i'm a shammy and i usually do 100,000 healing in an scenario looking at other shammys that rarly go over 30,000 is just pathetic since they are often 5-8 lvls higher.. sure i get the lvl boost but not the gear renown training nor skills

so cheer up and keep playing hopefully people will play their classes as they are stated to be when creating them =)

 

[Iorlas]

Your confusing scenarios (which are designed to be balanced) with Open RvR, i.e keep assaults. When you have 50 Destro defending a keep its unlikely that 20 Order will be able to capture it. Hence, its unbalanced..

I'm on a server which is basically full on both sides at peak time, I have a maybe 50 queue on Order and the Destro guys I have seen queues up to 800.

So currently its fairly balanced, but I think if some Order guys up and leave it will change. But currently I would say Order actually dominate Dest by some way, i'm currently running Phoenix Gate, I have run it maybe 50 times and i'd say only lost 15 times and usually thats due to massive level differences..

The keeps in Tier 2 always seem to be in Order hands, if they aren't they are usually under attack.



I just bought a new PC for £600 and its perfect, even with everything on maximum. I think a lot is to do with memory, < 4Gig and its going to grind with lots on screen..

I'm not confusing anything...i said the queing made it so that both sides are just about even in population nothing to do with scenario's.
If you have 50 Order deffending a keep and 20 destro trying to take it they have no chance,Hence it's unbalanced...you see your reasoning works both ways. It's fairly balanced atm but if some destro guys up and leave it will soon change...again it works both ways.My point being that both sides have roughly the same amount playing at the same time and to continually whine that destro has way more people is just rubbish.

 

[Gef]

I'm not confusing anything...i said the queing made it so that both sides are just about even in population nothing to do with scenario's.

This is your main mistake, queuing has nothing to do with balance, its to do with population caps.

Nobody knows the full numbers but lets say the caps are set at 1500 for Order and 1500 for Destruction. In the little server list when you login where it says :-

Order (Med) | Destruction (Full 800)

That means that there are maybe 750 Order players versus 1500 Destruction players active on that server, with a queue of 800 Destruction still waiting to get in.

Now you tell me how 1500v750 that isn't unbalanced?

 

[boinged]

On Karag Dron T3 I feel that order win a lot of scenarios. Those guys really know how to play together and are probably joining as a party. I suspect that is the advantage to a lower population side. Whenever I've tried to join with a party I get a lot less games.

Occasionally we will win if these skilled players don't happen to be in the scenario. They seem to use a few simple tactics:

1) Staying together. Easy to do when you're winning although rezzes are an absolute must.

2) Focus firing. We don't even seem to assist or allocate a target caller. So many times I as a WE have been focus fired by 4/5 people. 2 hits from each and I'm dead.

3) Having a gazillion tanks.

Maybe destro is doing the same on your server? TBH I'd love it if both sides could L2P in a group and I'm sure this will come with time.

For seiges it seems that destro has the upper hand. Numbers do matter and a week or so ago when there were what looked like 50-100 order attacking T2, they destroyed us. I hope towards the end-game that the war goes back and forth like this. I'd hate it to always be 200 destro vs 100 order.

 

[Ahlgard]

Please please please tell me things are going to imporve because at this rate people will flock to destruction so that they can actually win things (the only thing stopping me from doing it is my RL friends). And without that challenge what will be the point in playing a game that is heavily RVR based. Might as well go back to warcraft if thats the case.

Im not sure if this helps but when i played Tier 4 in closed beta it was different from now. Even though the destruction-domination was there (they had higher pop) it didnt feel that extremely overwhelming. Destro sacked Altdorf once while i played but the zerg battles felt very even, going back and forth and Order had keeps on a daily basis. Also, i think the PvP in general felt way more fun and balanced between both realms in Tier 4. So, my advice is to stay on Order and play on until you reach Tier 4 at least. I dont think you will regret it.

 

[Iorlas]

This is your main mistake, queuing has nothing to do with balance, its to do with population caps.

Nobody knows the full numbers but lets say the caps are set at 1500 for Order and 1500 for Destruction. In the little server list when you login where it says :-

Order (Med) | Destruction (Full 800)

That means that there are maybe 750 Order players versus 1500 Destruction players active on that server, with a queue of 800 Destruction still waiting to get in.

Now you tell me how 1500v750 that isn't unbalanced?

Now you tell me where you get your figures we can all surmise?...if both sides are full and have que's how is the population unbalanced?are you trying to tell me that destro have a higher population cap than order?you say it yourself in one paragraph...
I'm on a server which is basically full on both sides at peak time, I have a maybe 50 queue on Order and the Destro guys I have seen queues up to 800.
don't try to baffle me with imaginary numbers,your doing nothing more than contradicting yourself,you can't have both side's Full and try to tell me it's unbalanced.

 

[Soazak]

This is your main mistake, queuing has nothing to do with balance, its to do with population caps.

Nobody knows the full numbers but lets say the caps are set at 1500 for Order and 1500 for Destruction. In the little server list when you login where it says :-

Order (Med) | Destruction (Full 800)

That means that there are maybe 750 Order players versus 1500 Destruction players active on that server, with a queue of 800 Destruction still waiting to get in.

Now you tell me how 1500v750 that isn't unbalanced?

Most servers that have full destro, also have full order. I think this is what Iorlas is meaning, so the in game numbers are fairly balanced.

And the other servers are usually fairly close, i.e. med/med at peak but may drop to low/med offpeak etc

Obviously this isn't a comprehensive guide, but i doubt there any any huge population balance issues on EU, the server select screen shows most servers to be fairly equal

 

[Iorlas]

thanks carlos..that's about it tho i dunno why i didn't make it that easy to understand
:freddyfm:

 

[Loneliness]

It feels like playing Hib really, always outnumbered but we try our best and when we do win you know it wasn't simply numbers that won it for you. Though I am seriously thinking about binning my Ironbreaker and switching to a healing class as there seems to be none around when you need them.

It would be nice if Mythic made the game playable in PvP though, its a slide show most of the time and thats on a £1k+ pretty much brand new PC. Add to that the huge memory leak and its fubared, not sure I would want to try and heal through that

This brought back some wonderful memories and a smile. Excal daoc, Old Emain, Healing on druid against some mids and bang the alb zerg over the hill.
You couldnt even see the green grass there were so many. The screen froze for a little then restored only to find my group kissing the ground. Those were the days.

 

[civy]

Now you tell me where you get your figures we can all surmise?...if both sides are full and have que's how is the population unbalanced?are you trying to tell me that destro have a higher population cap than order?you say it yourself in one paragraph...
I'm on a server which is basically full on both sides at peak time, I have a maybe 50 queue on Order and the Destro guys I have seen queues up to 800.
don't try to baffle me with imaginary numbers,your doing nothing more than contradicting yourself,you can't have both side's Full and try to tell me it's unbalanced.

The test will be when the 30 days are up. If both sides lose 500 players then what was a healthy server will be in a bad way.

 

[Fafnir]

Have you been to dragonwake?

Kicked a Zealot off one of the bridges goin over the rvr area, the bugger survived that long fall, i die falling 1/8 that distance. A witch elf died from it thou.

 

[Soazak]

Kicked a Zealot off one of the bridges goin over the rvr area, the bugger survived that long fall, i die falling 1/8 that distance. A witch elf died from it thou.

Don't think u take damage from knockbacks, thats prob why

 

[Fafnir]

Don't think u take damage from knockbacks, thats prob why

Why the witchelf die then? Both fell pretty much from same spot no "wall" interruptions on the way down, just free fall, zealot fell down ran off, witch elf fell down and splat.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Magus Knockback has a damage component built into the ability so some accompanying damage is included in the package. I can't say as to other classes' abilities.