Is determination overpowered or not?

[Lumikki]

Maybe make Determination cap at 45% ? I think it would be reasonable

xx

 

[Javai]

Originally posted by zmurf
lol no sorc ? sorc got the best cc in the game, and on support it forces atleast 1 to use purge (30min timer, so not even sure it's up), so that person can demezz rest ... or force all to purge = no purge for slam, and af debuff is good, but not needed with minstrel, paladin, merc, merc, merc on same target ...

Well we been running this group alot of late without the Sorc best performance was a total of 23 dead Mids near Fens a few weeks ago mostly decent rr's and levels and we were without loss. (Oh and they came in a couple of waves but even still we were heavily outnumbered throughout)

I play both the Paladin and the Sorc so got no strong personal preferences just how I have seen groups work.

Edit: Sorc has best CC in game if they actually get to cast it which 6 out of 10 times you don't due to it being castable and enemy cc being instant

 

[zmurf]

Originally posted by Javai
Well we been running this group alot of late without the Sorc best performance was a total of 23 dead Mids near Fens a few weeks ago mostly decent rr's and levels and we were without loss. (Oh and they came in a couple of waves but even still we were heavily outnumbered throughout)

I play both the Paladin and the Sorc so got no strong personal preferences just how I have seen groups work.

Not to try and degrade this experience in any way, but any group can do that, if it's played well ... im just saying if it's vs good players (1fg vs 1fg) id take a sorc in an alb group over a tank any day ... same goes for 2fg nme's vs ur 1fg

 

[Javai]

Originally posted by zmurf
Not to try and degrade this experience in any way, but any group can do that, if it's played well ... im just saying if it's vs good players (1fg vs 1fg) id take a sorc in an alb group over a tank any day ... same goes for 2fg nme's vs ur 1fg

With Sorc in group Sorc will die or if it doesn't will eat all cleric's power keeping it alive. I still enjoy playing my Sorc and think she has a very useful role in some cirumstances but she'd rather fight Hibs than Mids anyday, the Paladin on the other hand would much rather meet Mids

 

[Dunmer]

Why is it overpowered, cause every realm's main tanking classes get it? And tanks are tanks, not some pansy spellmongers.

 

[Dunmer]

And with determination the grp that gets mez in first isn't the ultimate winner.

 

[Amadon]

Originally posted by Dunmer
Why is it overpowered, cause every realm's main tanking classes get it?

because it makes those classes that can't get it (hybrids, casters) much much less desireable in groups, and much less fun to play (when combined with interruptions)

 

[hotrat]

lol at the vnboards, all of them crying it will be a huge nerf to mids and won't effect other realms because of better hybrids or because of SoS/GP.
Maybe to some extent thats true, but mid is still the only realm that should have 3 demezzer's in their groups, and still has the best CC in the game.
Hib only has 1 demezzer but does have GP and BaoD.
Alb gets 2 but 1 wears cloth and the other spends half their time in combat making it more difficult to dis-engage and cast a spell.

The idea I put forward was to change Det on tanks to effect root only. This means tanks like everyone else gets the full mezz length BUT don't suffer from full root in which they can also do nothing.

Then casters would get a Det that effects mezz only. This for one thing would make them slightly more desirable in groups, although it would make them no.1 target even more so than they are atm.
But nothing worse than being in a caster group, you all get mezzed and the tanks with their Det take you down one by one while you just watch.

At any rate like most ppl are saying there is no reasons why tanks should be mezzed for less time than any other class, especially hybrids and casters. Rooted for less time YES, mezzed for less NO.

 

[Gorb]

Originally posted by hotrat
lol at the vnboards, all of them crying it will be a huge nerf to mids and won't effect other realms because of better hybrids or because of SoS/GP.
Maybe to some extent thats true, but mid is still the only realm that should have 3 demezzer's in their groups, and still has the best CC in the game.
Hib only has 1 demezzer but does have GP and BaoD.
Alb gets 2 but 1 wears cloth and the other spends half their time in combat making it more difficult to dis-engage and cast a spell.

The idea I put forward was to change Det on tanks to effect root only. This means tanks like everyone else gets the full mezz length BUT don't suffer from full root in which they can also do nothing.

Then casters would get a Det that effects mezz only. This for one thing would make them slightly more desirable in groups, although it would make them no.1 target even more so than they are atm.
But nothing worse than being in a caster group, you all get mezzed and the tanks with their Det take you down one by one while you just watch.

At any rate like most ppl are saying there is no reasons why tanks should be mezzed for less time than any other class, especially hybrids and casters. Rooted for less time YES, mezzed for less NO.

Best comment on the issue that I have ever seen. I truly hope they would make determination affect only root. Altho I would keep it so that only pure tanks can get it, because hybrids/casters can still work while rooted. Anyway great comment.

 

[Amadon]

Originally posted by hotrat
...

agree 100%

 

[StormriderX]

I feel like the game is becoming "Dark Age of pure Tankalot - if you aren't then you're screwed"

 

[old.anubis]

noone will take det if they make it affecting only root

90% of albs rvr with dmg shield up, you just have to hit nearest guy to get rid of root

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by old.anubis
90% of albs rvr with dmg shield up, you just have to hit nearest guy to get rid of root

Hmm, I find that highly unlikely. Last time I got a damage shield cast on me from a wizard must be several months ago (remember that it's Hibs who get a baseline dmg shield, only wizards in Albion have a damage shield, and it's usually level 1 unless the wizard has some earth spec).

 

[-Nuked-]

good idea hotrat imo. makes much more sence since casters and healers can still manage while rooted! that would be a great idea

 

[Belomar]

Also, it does make sense from a "roleplaying" perspective; casters should have highly trained minds and thus be able to more easily withstand mesmerizing effects that try to confuse the victim, whereas a tank would have the physical strength to shrug off a root and continue largely unhindered (but obviously not vice versa due to the nature of tanks vs casters).

 

[Begach]

Originally posted by Belomar
Hmm, I find that highly unlikely. Last time I got a damage shield cast on me from a wizard must be several months ago (remember that it's Hibs who get a baseline dmg shield, only wizards in Albion have a damage shield, and it's usually level 1 unless the wizard has some earth spec).

Possibly. Hib unlike alb aint got an abundance of root casting chars. Nature druids are just becomming popular for an RvR group so until now, never really been an issue

B.

 

[Sohan_THC]

Originally posted by Lumikki
Maybe make Determination cap at 45% ? I think it would be reasonable

xx

oke can life with that but !

make it inpossible to remezz/stunn/snare whatever
is stupid you spend 30 sec frozen and then get remezzed over and over again. and purge only helps 1 time so they respell it
happens alot of time's , im sure in some patch orso i read that you were imuun for remezz the next 60 sec but that seems not to work if it is even there.

so det to max 45% along with 26% s.c. still is 71% tho.
and remezz gets fixed.

 

[rg-zorena]

its abit silly when the best ae mess for mid last 12 sec on a high det tank but then agian i guess i shouldn't complain

 

[Amadon]

Originally posted by Sohan_THC
oke can life with that but !

make it inpossible to remezz/stunn/snare whatever
is stupid you spend 30 sec frozen and then get remezzed over and over again. and purge only helps 1 time so they respell it
happens alot of time's , im sure in some patch orso i read that you were imuun for remezz the next 60 sec but that seems not to work if it is even there.

so det to max 45% along with 26% s.c. still is 71% tho.
and remezz gets fixed.

um

please tell me why only primary tanks should be allowed this?

if you want a nerf to mez, then say so directly - imo CC should be reduced in duration - but determination is a huge problem because it's accessible to only a small portion of the classes

EVERYONE suffers the same when mez'd or stunned, casters, healers and hybrids are all just as useless as primary tanks (well perhaps buffing classes less so, but that's nitpicking ).

 

[Sohan_THC]

Originally posted by Amadon
um

please tell me why only primary tanks should be allowed this?

Well i did not invent that , i found out my reaver aint got it also wich is a bummer.

if you want a nerf to mez, then say so directly - imo CC should be reduced in duration - but determination is a huge problem because it's accessible to only a small portion of the classes

EVERYONE suffers the same when mez'd or stunned, casters, healers and hybrids are all just as useless as primary tanks (well perhaps buffing classes less so, but that's nitpicking ).

No is not like that , is hate mezz also but as a pure 2hander arms it is a high price to give up the determination so hmm for me it is woth giving up determ. if they fix the remezz. not all the mezz or duration but just the remezz. then and only then i find it oke to give up on determ. it is alot worth for me
that is what i wanted to make clear.
besides that i can imagen you hate it tho.
but as an albion hmmm that is not my prob
imagen a 2hander with 5.5 sec swing and BT is running on the caster is a bit the same , miss , miss , miss
imp. in general im still having fun in rvr. and that is what's all about win some loose some.

 

[ghaladriel]

Nerf imo

 

[Fagane]

Originally posted by Belomar
Yet again the mighty Fagane shows off his ubah game knowledge. Where the heck do you get the idea that Savages are not tanks?

They got self buffs dumbass, that makes them hybrids, they also on the hybrid tables for tohit and dammage. They just outdammage everybody with the selfbuffs.

Shows again how dumb you are by not knowing the classes. And yes I know Paladins are on the hybrid table to, but they atleast fullfil 9 out of 10 roles of a tank in PvE, and only reason they wont do it in RvR is becouse of determin.

Fagane

 

[Karlo]

Originally posted by Fagane
They got self buffs dumbass, that makes them hybrids, they also on the hybrid tables for tohit and dammage. They just outdammage everybody with the selfbuffs.

Shows again how dumb you are by not knowing the classes. And yes I know Paladins are on the hybrid table to, but they atleast fullfil 9 out of 10 roles of a tank in PvE, and only reason they wont do it in RvR is becouse of determin.

Fagane

WRONG!

 

[[DK]hakke]

yes

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by Fagane
They got self buffs dumbass, that makes them hybrids, they also on the hybrid tables for tohit and dammage. They just outdammage everybody with the selfbuffs.

Ooh, I'm being called a dumbass, the horror.

Shows again how dumb you are by not knowing the classes.

Let me spell it out for you so you will understand. Savages are considered to be light tanks by Mythic, not hybrids. The Mythic definition of a "tank" is a class that gets cheap tank RAs, i.e. cheap Purge, IP, and Determination. The Mythic definition of a "light tank" is a class that fulfills the requirements of a "tank" and in addition gets Advanced Evade and Charge. Savages have all these abilities, and are thus, by definition, light tanks. Q.E.D.

We all (well, all Albs and Hibs) want Savages to be considered to be hybrids due to their self buffs. However, wanting a thing won't necessarily make it so (whining will ).

I suggest you get some more RvR experience under your belt before you start passing judgment on enemy realm classes.

 

[Karlo]

Originally posted by Belomar

I suggest you get some more RvR experience under your belt before you start passing judgment on enemy realm classes.

Agreed

 

[dakeyras]

The problem with nerfing Determination is that you risk a return to the era of tanks being nothing more than lawn statues for 29 out of every 30 minutes.

There is just far too much CC in the game.

Any nerf to DET has to be accompanied with a balancing nerf to CC.

As to removing det from savages. Unlikely, when you consider the implementation of determination. Det is given to all classes who lack either ranged magical damage or group abilities.

If you made Savages subject to, say, a full duration root, then you make the savage the only class in the game who cannot do anything. They are therefore taken out of the game. This is what so many whined about, and brought about the introduction of det for those who just had unspecced, short range weapons in the first place. If you take det from savages then they would need a ranged DD which would be whined about more.

Personally, I would like to see all mezz and stun removed and replaced with roots. Then give all pure/light tanks (inc savage) a decent form of ranged damage i.e. improve crossbows/shortbows/throwing.

 

[Solarius]

Originally posted by Belomar
Ooh, I'm being called a dumbass, the horror. Let me spell it out for you so you will understand. Savages are considered to be light tanks by Mythic, not hybrids. The Mythic definition of a "tank" is a class that gets cheap tank RAs, i.e. cheap Purge, IP, and Determination. The Mythic definition of a "light tank" is a class that fulfills the requirements of a "tank" and in addition gets Advanced Evade and Charge. Savages have all these abilities, and are thus, by definition, light tanks. Q.E.D.

Actually, Mythics definition of a Hybrid is a fighter class with mana pools. The reason Savages are not Hybrids is because their selfbuffs cost HP to cast, thus they have no manapool, thus they are tanks.

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by Belomar
Ooh, I'm being called a dumbass, the horror. Let me spell it out for you so you will understand. Savages are considered to be light tanks by Mythic, not hybrids. The Mythic definition of a "tank" is a class that gets cheap tank RAs, i.e. cheap Purge, IP, and Determination. The Mythic definition of a "light tank" is a class that fulfills the requirements of a "tank" and in addition gets Advanced Evade and Charge. Savages have all these abilities, and are thus, by definition, light tanks. Q.E.D.

We all (well, all Albs and Hibs) want Savages to be considered to be hybrids due to their self buffs. However, wanting a thing won't necessarily make it so (whining will ).

I suggest you get some more RvR experience under your belt before you start passing judgment on enemy realm classes.

zerkers/bm's/mercs are lighttanks, your point?

 

[Fagane]

Originally posted by dakeyras
As to removing det from savages. Unlikely, when you consider the implementation of determination. Det is given to all classes who lack either ranged magical damage or group abilities.

Also not correct, What about Infiltrators, Scouts, etc.

Also the fact that "without ranged attacks" is incorrect, an Armsman can spec x-bow, and be very effective (proven in US).

Fagane