"Gimpes"

[Rollie]

i hope krane has 50 instruments, 43 thrust/slash, if not id call him a gimpy waste of space mincer and in turn doesnt deserve any sidi drops.

btw krane dont tell people how to spec, some specs are better than others but until you start to pay the subscription do us a favour and shut your hole.

 

[Ialkarn]

Originally posted by seeaira
RR10 to say that.
Just because im not on the top 10 doesnt mean i know jack.. I have been playing this game as long as you.. I played in the US before any euros got it. I didnt like RvR that much it was more pve for me.. so that doesnt make them the best

Yes it mean you know nothing about how a group in RvR work,that it's exactly the reason why someone call ppl whit a spec like your: a gimp (in your case even more gimp cause you dont have the last end regen).
You can say what you want,but DAOC it's a game RvR based mostly,PvE and stuff are secondary aspects of the game,no matter if you focus in PvE more,it's not what the large majority of players do.
Then you are free to spec as you want,you are even free to get an uber drop,but don't espect to come here jelling at ppl cause they call you a gimp,cause it's what you are,and don't espect ppl to be happy to see to lose a drop in a lotto whit you,cause it's exactly how you would feel at their place.

About Drops and weird specs:

What if I spec 50 2h and 12 crush/slash/thrust (the last 2 would be autotrained) I m right to claim every 2h drops?

I could do worse
tomorrow I respec 50 pole/50 2h 23 shield 12/slash/thrust/crush 12 parry

Whit a spec like that I would virtually have access to all weapons.

and tbh it's not more gimped than a 2h pali whit yellow con end regen.

or whit a pali 50 2h 12 slash (autotrained) like this one is :12 Konnorel Ulfdewyn 1,364,234 44,122 50 Angels of Retribution Briton .

Then Asha is right,let's give everyone the chance to roll for anything,cause atm some does aniway (taking advantages by blind rules).
Or better do guild raids only.

 

[Ialkarn]

Originally posted by Rollie
i hope krane has 50 instruments, 43 thrust/slash, if not id call him a gimpy waste of space mincer and in turn doesnt deserve any sidi drops.

He does.

 

[Ialkarn]

Originally posted by [PS]Venom

Number 12 on the paladin rankings is the highest 2h paladin. This is only because it's not a commonly played spec, not due to the "rightness" of sword and shield paladins. I don't think that particually shows sword and shield superior. Just more played.

The 2h pali population it's pretty big,but those gimped palis whit 2h spec and crap chants dosen't get a group often,or they don't have spaces in dedicated rvr groups,cause they would compromise their perfomances,it's a fact,you can't deny that .

Originally posted by [PS]Venom



This whole thing reminds of school, with kids picking on other kids just because they didn't wear Nike trainers or designer clothes. It's the same immature attitude, to be honest. You don't do what I want or think is right - therefore you're stupid and I'm going to pick on you because of it. This feeling is quickly reinforced by those oh so eager to jump to statistics to prove that their way is right.

It remind more a player of a football team who dosen't want to play in his role : he wanna make goals!
cause it's more cool,then his team gonna lose the match cause he didn't do the thing he was supposed to (and the things he can do better).

 

[belth]

Originally posted by Ialkarn
He does.

Does he regularly attend keep retakes?

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by Ialkarn
The 2h pali population it's pretty big,but those gimped palis whit 2h spec and crap chants dosen't get a group often,or they don't have spaces in dedicated rvr groups,cause they would compromise their perfomances,it's a fact,you can't deny that .




It remind more a player of a football team who dosen't want to play in his role : he wanna make goals!
cause it's more cool,then his team gonna lose the match cause he didn't do the thing he was supposed to (and the things he can do better).

basically what your saying is, unless someone specs the best possible rvr spec they arent really entitled to any sidi drops....which imho is horseshit

 

[Ialkarn]

Originally posted by belth
Does he regularly attend keep retakes?

He is the actually the one who managed who organised Bleedmer retake in the last days.
the first mid keep in albs hands for more than 24 hours in weeks and weeks.

and you do?

How much cash did you spend to repair doors since you started to play?
How many times you managed to get a keep and support it (upgrade the lvl,the doors,supply guards whit weapons) defend the keep for hours,or in certain cases days ?

and then what that have to do whit all this thread?

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by Ialkarn
He is the actually the one who managed who organised Bleedmer retake in the last days.
the first mid keep in albs hands for more than 24 hours in weeks and weeks.

and you do?

How much cash did you spend to repair doors since you started to play?
How many times you managed to get a keep and support it (upgrade the lvl,the doors,supply guards whit weapons) defend the keep for hours,or in certain cases days ?

and then what that have to do whit all this thread?

as much to do as telling someone if they dont spec for the best possible rvr spec for that specific class then they arent entitled to a sidi weapon as much as a better specced person.

 

[Ialkarn]

Originally posted by Rollie
basically what your saying is, unless someone specs the best possible rvr spec they arent really entitled to any sidi drops....which imho is horseshit

No if you read all the thread,instead to skip till the last page,you can easy see what it's my point:

The actually lotto system can be easy forced in weird ways (buffbot and never played alts getting uber drops,ppl getting items they aren't able to use whit effectivness etc).
But also a single person can't track everything (can't see who is farming cash whit drops,can't know who got what drops if they already have it,if they aren't getting an item to park it in their vaults,if ppl is playing 2-3 accounts at same time to get more chances to lotto).
The solution it's to make every single guild involved in the raid to do it: if something it's wrong all the whole guild pay for the mistakes of their members.

Guild groups=less afkers,less ppl attemping to cheat the raid whit tricks,more balanced groups,more discipline and a faster and better raid.

Also..the drops would be shared aloot more fair.

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by Ialkarn
No if you read all the thread,instead to skip till the last page,you can easy see what it's my point:

The actually lotto system can be easy forced in weird ways (buffbot and never played alts getting uber drops,ppl getting items they aren't able to use whit effectivness etc).
But also a single person can't track everything (can't see who is farming cash whit drops,can't know who got what drops if they already have it,if they aren't getting an item to park it in their vaults,if ppl is playing 2-3 accounts at same time to get more chances to lotto).
The solution it's to make every single guild involved in the raid to do it: if something it's wrong all the whole guild pay for the mistakes of their members.

Guild groups=less afkers,less ppl attemping to cheat the raid whit tricks,more balanced groups,more discipline and a faster and better raid.

Also..the drops would be shared aloot more fair.

i agree with what u say here, but to say anyone doesnt deserve a sidi weapon because he chooses to spec the way he enjoys is just stupid.

 

[Draylor]

Regarding what stats affect 2h thrust: I went digging around for more info after a few posts Vireb made a few days ago (bored at work).

As everyone knows its meant to be 75% str, 25% dex.
Any valid tests show its currently bugged, and is 100% str - at least from now till 1.64.

Unless of course someone has logs to prove otherwise

 

[Asha]

Rollie, you're confusing two different things. Well three really. Are 2h paladins gimps. Should only rr5+ ppl be allowed to get Apoc (NOT sidi) weapons. Should ppl be banned from getting weapons because they didn't spec the norm.

I dont think Ialk ever said that ppl who spec "wrong" shouldn't get drops. In fact I don't think he said rr5+ either, but I am not rereading this thread.

I still say that a rr2 who doesn't rvr is much much more likely to turn around and sell the item (as happened in this case). It's not need before greed. It's exactly the opposite. It's some casual player who gets 10 plat for coming to Sidi for three hours. Who do you think pays the 10 plat? Someone who plays alot - not always a high rr person ofc, but often it is. So ofcourse it's frustrating to see someone do that.

Do rr5+ have anymore "right" to the weapon? Ofc not. But why does someone who plays an armsman have more right than say a Sorcerer to bid for a weapon that he is just going to sell? I think you would be surprized at the amount of buying and selling going on. If we're not going to give the weapons to people who will actually get alot of use out of them, then let everyone have an equal chance at that 10p sword.

2h is still a gimp spec for paladins that group, nothing to do with sidi or rr

 

[AbPoon]

Kate your so sexy when you talk all serious ¬_¬

 

[old.Kerosene]

Gah.

1. 16.5 dps weapons being only lottoable by RR5+. FUCKING TOSS. If you do that then everyone becomes a greedy RP whore and in it for themselves. Sorry.. that should read MORE greedy RP whores. Not looking at anyone KRANE. Believe it or not I used to like that guy when he was pretty new to the game :/

2. 2H Pally gimp? Who gives a flying toss? It's not your character. I specced my theurg completely gimped tri-spec but ask anyone who knew me in Alb, I made it work. I could do things not many other theurgs could and other things not as well as other theurgs.

Some true colours have come out on these boards over the last couple of days. Seeaira plays to have fun, not play to win at all costs like some of you greedy RP whores.

 

[seeaira]

I seriously give up.. No one can win here cause this wasn't an argument to win. But I give up in the discussion of it.
My point has been twisted and turned around to fit into what you wanted to say.
Ialk imho is just a twat who needs to learn to speak proper English. This is the man who told me off in the sidi raid cause he didnt think a armsman who lottoed for a drop and won deserved it. He wasn't specd right enough for Ialk to be satisfied with it. So when I took up for him he told me off. What is up with you people and these drops? Fucking marry the drops for all I care. Its a freekin game. Who cares if people sell them buy them trade them it doesn't freekin matter. You are the best on the game when you have all the toys and all the power you want. You are nit picking on every line I say .. so it doesn't matter what I say about the 2 handed pallys, doesn't matter that I SAID they arnt the best.. Doesn't matter that I said I only play to have FUN.. you still want to make an issue out of it.

Kate is something else .. Its like people are so wrapped up in RvR and RP's they think its the whole freekin game. Now my opinion doesn't matter cause im not a "experience RvR whore" now I don't know what is a good spec and what's not. cause im not rr10. That's utter bullshit. Just cause I don't rvr with Seeaira doesn't mean I don't and haven't with other chars..
And the remarks you make about the drop I got are funny tbh.. since you know FUCK all about how I got it. I don't know who got it first.. but I do know Falcor had it.. I wasn't on that raid when it dropped as im 5 hours behind and woke up too late. I do know he traded it for a weapon he wanted with a friend of mine.. and therefore I got it. 10 plat wasn't paid for it.. and WHO FUCKING CARES. Do you need it? are you just pissed people get access to drops? Grow up.. drops come and go and if you want them go get them. People are really changing this game its not mythics nerfs or non nerfs.. its the people who become these elitist savages who think they need to devour everything in their path.
Its fine you think im a gimp.. and im not wanted by groups. That's fine cause im never in your groups anyways. Im here for fun.. and im having it. When hitting someone for 421 to 600 means im gimp.. I done wanna know what it means to be un gimped.

 

[Asha]

Seeaira it is so lame to reduce yourself (once again) to personal insults, especially over someone's english on a European server. You throw around personal insults like twat & etc like it's going out of style.

The incident you mentioned was a misunderstanding. Ialk actually agreed with you that a 50 pole/50 thrust spec arms has as much right to lotto for a 1 handed weapon as a s/s tank. There were alot of people there saying the guy shouldn't get it and it was totally unfair. Yes, he misunderstood you, but he tried to appologise for that in private, but I dunno more than that. Why would a 50 pole / 50 thrust user not want people with his own spec to be allowed to lotto for drops that they can clearly use?

As for me. I never said your opinion doesn't matter. I wasn't even adressing you personally, but the issue of 2h paladins in general. I didn't insult you or make any personal remarks about you at all in fact. I didn't comment on your rr or your played time or your play style (cause I don't care). All I said was why I think 2h is a bad spec for groups overall - I thought that was what this thread was about. I didn't know it was just about you.

I don't care about drops that much. I care that people act all high and mighty about who should get to lotto for items based on need, when in fact the items are just sold immediately anyhow. I know about the 2h sword cause the guy was asking 10p for it. It's not about that one sword. There are loads of weapons that are getting sold for that amount. I don't care that you have it. I care that the guy who won it did so based on his need, but then sold it immediately (or maybe he traded it, I don't know, but they are getting sold every week). All I was saying was lets stop pretending with this need shit and admit it's all about money.

And to all the ppl saying, play how you want - I agree play how you want. No ppl shouldn't yell gimp at others with specs that they don't think are good in game, but on the other hand Krane has every right to call 2h paladins in general gimps on a message board. Maybe he didn't put it very nicely, but it doesn't make it less true.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by loxleyhood
2h pallies do less damage and have less weapon skill than 2h arms but they have chants! Thats the summary of it all! Nothing more to it!

Add to that those chants are required for a good RvR-group.
Where an armsman is not required.

Then it all comes down if you want offensive or defensive RvR.

Let's see, we go offensive:

* Cleric
* Cleric
* Minstrel
* Sorc
* 2H-paladin
* Merc/arms
* Merc/arms
* Merc/arms

or

* Cleric
* Cleric
* Minstrel
* Sorc
* S/S paladin
* Merc/arms
* Merc/arms
* Merc/arms

If a 2h-armsman > S/S-armsman in dmg-output so is a 2h-paladin > S/S-paladin.

Therefore the first template has more dmg-output then the 2nd one. You win offensive in the cost of defensive. Sounds to me that is only a matter of opinion what you prefer personally.

 

[Sol-]

then who guards the sorc u nugget.

 

[Sol-]

oh and seeaira, foad.

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by Ialkarn
He is the actually the one who managed who organised Bleedmer retake in the last days.
the first mid keep in albs hands for more than 24 hours in weeks and weeks.

All right, this is in no way a flame against Krane, BF, or the HB alliance who took Bledmeer. However, first of all, Belth was asking about keep retakes, and I am sorry, there is no way you can interpret that as anything other than retaking Albion keeps. Midgard keeps are for us to take, not to retake. I rarely see BF help to retake keeps in the Albion frontier.

And secondly, while Krane may have organized the Bledmeer take, you did get help from the other numerous Albs who turned up at Bledmeer to help you defend the keep. So, while the keep take itself was your work, it is not entirely fair to take credit for the defense itself. I know SS had several groups in there defending for a long time.

Anyway, this is far off-topic.

EDIT: Gah, wrote Blendrake instead of Bledmeer.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by Sol-
then who guards the sorc u nugget.

Nobody does. I said play defensive or offensive, I choose offensive = no guard on support-classes.

You probably think it is gimped but guarding rarely helps against 2 dualwielders using /assist for teh win on the poor sorc.

If you play more defensive you might choose for a S/S-paladin guarding the one having the 'aggro' (read: That doesnt have to be the sorc, but can also be one of the clerics).

All about your play-style. Some prefer offensive, others prefer defensive.

 

[Sol-]

at the end of the day.... 2h palas are still gimped.

 

[Jiggs]

Originally posted by seeaira
...I only started rvring in groups (zergs) a week ago.
I never liked it at first but its the way things are now.
So whats your point?

Originally posted by seeaira
I think this was ment to me? But let me just say this. I never was talking about RvR.. but about being 2 handed.. pvp pve i dont give a shit.

i was answering your first comment...
What the hell is your problem tbh, i only suggested that if you were getting into RvR; that listening to or pming ppl who have more experience with your class in RvR _might_ be a good idea...

Originally posted by Vireb
uhm jiggs learn to read , she making comments she enjoys her spec DOES NOT WANT TO PLAY S+S ALREADY BEEN THERE AND DONE IT !!! and is just saying its no ones right to say OMFG YOUR GIMP YOUR 2H!!!!!! as for people saying about rp points that unless your high rr you know nothing ? ok uhm my dad the fucking mayor you know what you lasy ass peasent have no right to say shit or voice you opinions you know fuck all all of you because we're higher we know more.. so stfu and listen , nice attitude huh ,

1: i made no comment about 2hd spec, i don't know about paladins so i have no idea, i played with both 2hd and s+s in group (zael used to be 2hd) and i found i prefer being with the s+s, those guys are like the defensive powerhouses...

2: i think regtur or farek or hatji _do_ have a more informed opinion of the pluses and minus of being a paladin are, sorry but you won't ever change this opinion. Flame them for having lots of rlms if you want, but the rlms just reflect the fact that they played it alot, its nothing to do with prestige or elitism.

my point was simply like lireihuan said, do what the hell you want, its your sub, your account, but there are alot of people out there who have more experience and have settled on s+s, who knows something might change and 2hd suddenly becomes uber or smth but thats the way it is atm

if you want to know how this whole thing started:

some high rr ppl (high rr doesnt matter could have been anyone) went to sidi raid after sidi raid and always got unlucky, losing out each week on very specialised drops to ppl that just ding 50 and went on sidi raid that week...

this is the whole problem, no one (i think) is getting up their ass about drops but the whole sidi system is screwed. Is it right that because of bad luck some guy who comes every freaking week and never gets a drop?

on hibernia/pryd they use systems like, everytime u come and dont get a drop u get a +15 to your roll (so u could save it up for the magic moment when apoc drops) OR they also use system like you get a bonus to roll from level or realm rank (what is wrong with encouraging ppl to level or RvR a bit to use those drops?)

now i dont say these systems are perfect but they alot better than what we got..

now u see the result that alliance will do its own sidi raids and sod the rest.. i dunno i think the whole thing is dam sad tbh
----

and u can flame krane for many things(!), but not defending albion or attacking other realms is not something u can say in any justification.

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by Asha
Rollie, you're confusing two different things. Well three really. Are 2h paladins gimps. Should only rr5+ ppl be allowed to get Apoc (NOT sidi) weapons. Should ppl be banned from getting weapons because they didn't spec the norm.

Im not confusing these at all, imho regardless of rr, if they have gone on a sidi raid for x amoount of hours they have every right to roll for a weapon. As for 2h paladins are gimps?, they certainly arent as "group friendly" as s+s paladins, but if someone specs that way cause they enjoy it then thats their choice.

Originally posted by Asha
I dont think Ialk ever said that ppl who spec "wrong" shouldn't get drops. In fact I don't think he said rr5+ either, but I am not rereading this thread.

This thread is about a 2h paladin getting a sidi 2h sword and armsman feeling its there god given right to get the sword, what lalk said is that 2h paladins are gimps and he coulkd spec gimpy specs so as to lotto for multiple sidi weapons, so basically hes implying that 2h pallies are gikmps and unless they spec the "group friendly" way they shouldnt get items

Originally posted by Asha
I still say that a rr2 who doesn't rvr is much much more likely to turn around and sell the item (as happened in this case). It's not need before greed. It's exactly the opposite. It's some casual player who gets 10 plat for coming to Sidi for three hours. Who do you think pays the 10 plat? Someone who plays alot - not always a high rr person ofc, but often it is. So ofcourse it's frustrating to see someone do that.

I agree with the selling sidi weapons PoV, and yeah i agree a rr8 or whatever rvring more than a rr2 player will get more out of it, but does that then mean people who cannot dedicate as much time as others should not have as much chance to roll on a sidi raid they ahve been on for 3-4 hours.

Originally posted by Asha
Do rr5+ have anymore "right" to the weapon? Ofc not. But why does someone who plays an armsman have more right than say a Sorcerer to bid for a weapon that he is just going to sell? I think you would be surprized at the amount of buying and selling going on. If we're not going to give the weapons to people who will actually get alot of use out of them, then let everyone have an equal chance at that 10p sword.

Well if a pally is rr2 2h spec pally and there is a rr10 2h armsman on the sidi raid and a apoc sword drops, and they are the only 2handed people on the raid then id still say /random 100, simply for the fact youo cant tell people that unless they spec a certain way they will be seen as gimped and therefore not have as much entitlement as someone with a better group friendly spec, of course someone speccing 50 pole, 502h and 12 in melee skills shouldnt get anything, but a pally with 502h, 44 slash, 30 chants or whatever has everyright to bid for the weapon.

Originally posted by Asha
2h is still a gimp spec for paladins that group, nothing to do with sidi or rr [/B]

its certainly not the best spec for a pally i agree, but until people realize that people play the spec they want because they enjoy it then this kinda argument will go on and on.

 

[Jiggs]

Originally posted by Belomar
All right, this is in no way a flame against Krane, BF, or the HB alliance who took Bledmeer. However, first of all, Belth was asking about keep retakes, and I am sorry, there is no way you can interpret that as anything other than retaking Albion keeps. Midgard keeps are for us to take, not to retake. I rarely see BF help to retake keeps in the Albion frontier.

this is not a fair comment about BF, you want to give ialkarn some stick? u are talking about the guy who when BF claimed beno stayed in there for hours and made arc weapons for all the guards...

it is also a small guild: there isnt 30-40 ppl online like SS or other big guilds so if u see 3-4 ppl or a fg on a retake: its prolly all we got in rvr at that moment...

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by Glottis_Xanadu
Anyway, all your lot bitching has resulted in are alliance sidi raids, although I'm pretty sure Falcor will keep his raids going.
Regards, Glottis

Nothing unique about alliance raids, many alliances do them. And even if Falcor is doing a great job leading his free-for-all raids (like I said before), there are others who can lead them as well. Pin's and Daivana's raid was the first on Excal to take down Apocalypse.

 

[Ialkarn]

Originally posted by seeaira

Ialk imho is just a twat who needs to learn to speak proper English. This is the man who told me off in the sidi raid cause he didnt think a armsman who lottoed for a drop and won deserved it. He wasn't specd right enough for Ialk to be satisfied with it. So when I took up for him he told me off.

It was a big debate and in the sea of spamm I misandestood you,and as soon I realised that I said sorry in main chat and no..was actually me defending a guy whit 50 pole 50 thrust m by a bunch of ignorants pretending him to give his weapon (a 1h thrust) back,cause a pole user isn't going to play 1h enought often.

Maybe my english is poor,but that dosen't make your arguments better,as always when you don't know what reply you reduce your threads in personal attacks.

 

[Ialkarn]

Originally posted by seeaira


Just cause I don't rvr with Seeaira doesn't mean I don't and haven't with other chars..

Oh yea..she got a rr10 in Nimue,but she wanna keep the name secret.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by seeaira
...I only started rvring in groups (zergs) a week ago.
I never liked it at first but its the way things are now.
So whats your point?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You should talk less and think more before open your mouth,cause more you talk more you look like a stupid chick.

 

[Rollie]

lalk is a good guy and i think his english caused a few problems, well he was a good guy in UO

 

[Asha]

Originally posted by Belomar
All right, this is in no way a flame against Krane, BF, or the HB alliance who took Bledmeer. However, first of all, Belth was asking about keep retakes, and I am sorry, there is no way you can interpret that as anything other than retaking Albion keeps. Midgard keeps are for us to take, not to retake. I rarely see BF help to retake keeps in the Albion frontier.

And secondly, while Krane may have organized the Bledmeer take, you did get help from the other numerous Albs who turned up at Bledmeer to help you defend the keep. So, while the keep take itself was your work, it is not entirely fair to take credit for the defense itself. I know SS had several groups in there defending for a long time.

Anyway, this is far off-topic.

EDIT: Gah, wrote Blendrake instead of Bledmeer.

What a load of crap. Actually, when there is relics, we've retaken keeps on a regular basis. We always tried to claim a keep and keep it upgraded and etc. Several people from BF even organised sucessful RRs. I didn't know you were keeping score tho. Like Jiggs said, we have around 40 people in BF, not 170.

As for Bledmeer, what does other groups being there have to do with anything? It was Krane's initative. And taking mid keeps does mean something when we have no relics and mids are the prime target.

And to Rollie - No one ever said 2h palas shouldn't be allowed to lotto. Krane was just pissed it went to a rr2 who in his opinion had a bad spec - I am sure he wouldn't say 2h paladins can't lotto.