Impressed Apple vs the FBI

[Deebs]

Have to say I am impressed that Tim Cook decided to tell the FBI to fuckoff. However, I do know it could be a smoke screen for all we know, reading deeper into his customer letter it seems that Apple "could" bypass certain security features of the iPhone. No doubt the multitude of Android phones are also insecure in some form.

Having said that I am a staunch advocate for privacy and even take steps to encrypt all my digital belongings including photos, documents and browsing history. If I look at this rationally I have to believe that most terrorists are intelligent, read the web, know about the equipment they use to communicate. Our politicians seem to think that the populous are dumb as shit, most are, but come on, they are using software which is running on top of the OS to secure their shit which adds another layer of security to their conversations.

Even if Apple accommodated the United Spies of America I doubt they would get anything worthwhile as any sane person would be using Signal or Telegram.

 

[Embattle]

I think it is a lot of noise about nothing and people are using it as some sort of tip of the ice berg event, plus all that has happened is the can has been kicked to another court and could go to a few more before the end result is known although I suspect eventually the FBI will get their way.

 

[Tom]

What would be hilarious would be if Apple lost and said "you know what, fuck it. We're moving to Mexico."

Watch the politicians flounder as one of the world's most successful companies ups and leaves the states.

 

[Deebs]

What would be hilarious would be if Apple lost and said "you know what, fuck it. We're moving to Mexico."

Watch the politicians flounder as one of the world's most successful companies ups and leaves the states.

Totally agree, Apple should threaten to leave the US.

 

[Edmond]

Then Trump wouldn't allow their stuff to be sold in th US if he became Prez

 

[Deebs]

Then Trump wouldn't allow their stuff to be sold in th US if he became Prez

And others will follow suit and the US economy will suffer, something that any politician will not want to happen.

 

[Embattle]

What would be hilarious would be if Apple lost and said "you know what, fuck it. We're moving to Mexico."

Watch the politicians flounder as one of the world's most successful companies ups and leaves the states.

Yeah they can follow all the money they offshore, but in actuality the two things have one real similarity in that Apple won't move themselves out of the US and also won't bring the money into the US.

BTW They would still have to comply with US law, same as any company is required to meet the laws of the country they sell products/services in.

 

[Deebs]

Yeah they can follow all the money they offshore, but in actuality the two things have one real similarity in that Apple won't move themselves out of the US and also won't bring the money into the US.

BTW They would still have to comply with US law, same as any company is required to meet the laws of the country they sell products/services in.

In your opinion what is stopping them from moving from the USA ? Bearing in mind that all of the markets outside of the USA are bigger combined.

 

[Embattle]

51 facts about the new Apple spaceship HQ

That as well as having their skill base there who aren't likely to move but I guess like their money they could call someone where else HQ while keeping most the stuff in the US, either way I don't see Apple doing it over something like this because besides the threat it makes no difference to the case since it is a independent judiciary that can still rule on it as long Apple sells products in the US no matter where their HQ is.

 

[CorNokZ]

Leaving the US would hurt Apple. There's a reason it says 'designed by Apple in California' and not 'made in China'

 

[Deebs]

Leaving the US would hurt Apple. There's a reason it says 'designed by Apple in California' and not 'made in China'

Um, but it is designed in California but made in China. Nearly most of all Apple products are made outside of the USA.

 

[Embattle]

When it comes down to it beyond the jobs in the US and the prestige of having Apple there I question the whole benefit of Apple to the US economy, but all of this gets away from the point of the topic.

 

[Deebs]

When it comes down to it beyond the jobs in the US and the prestige of having Apple there I question the whole benefit of Apple to the US economy, but all of this gets away from the point of the topic.

Indeed, but just to add, whenever I buy a product I have never looked at where it was built, I really don't give a shit. If it does what I want then I will buy it. I have no idea where my tv, laptop, pc, fridge, cooker was built, I just buy on recommendation and brand.

So, what is your view on Apple telling the FBI to fuckoff?

 

[Raven]

I hate Apple and pretty much everything they stand for. However, in this case they are spot on.

As a single case then yes they should give over the data...but...this would set a precedent and would open up a whole can of worms, not just for Apple but every telecoms company or manufacturer of "stuff" the police, FBI, whoever would be pulling this shit on pretty much anything, crime or not.

 

[old.user4556]

Leaving the US would hurt Apple. There's a reason it says 'designed by Apple in California' and not 'made in China'

Actually it says "Designed by Apple in California. Assembled in China", so it kinda does say "made in china" on the back.

 

[CorNokZ]

Um, but it is designed in California but made in China. Nearly most of all Apple products are made outside of the USA.

Um, I know? But Apple makes an effort to withhold their US connection. Ask Siri where she is made and she'll reply "As it says on the box, I was designed in California". And if you ask here where she was assembled, she starts talking about other things like "Where ever you are is where I am". I cannot imagine Apple moving to Mexico or anywhere else and having Siri start saying something like "Fui diseñado en la Ciudad de México"

Apple can threaten all they want, but they won't move their headquarters out of the US

 

[Deebs]

Um, I know? But Apple makes an effort to withhold their US connection. Ask Siri where she is made and she'll reply "As it says on the box, I was designed in California". And if you ask here where she was assembled, she starts talking about other things like "Where ever you are is where I am". I cannot imagine Apple moving to Mexico or anywhere else and having Siri start saying something like "Fui diseñado en la Ciudad de México"

Apple can threaten all they want, but they won't move their headquarters out of the US

I would not know as I do not use Apple products, however, they could have a couple of engineers sat in California whilst the main business is in a country not flexing their might?

Even if Apple do not move their HQ out of the USA they have set a serious milestone in the history of the human privacy rights across the globe. For that I applaud them.

 

[CorNokZ]

I would not know as I do not use Apple products, however, they could have a couple of engineers sat in California whilst the main business is in a country not flexing their might?

Even if Apple do not move their HQ out of the USA they have set a serious milestone in the history of the human privacy rights across the globe. For that I applaud them.

And I agree. I too applaud them, and don't think they should give the FBI 1bit of data. All I was saying is that leaving the US would hurt their image

 

[Deebs]

And I agree. I too applaud them, and don't think they should give the FBI 1bit of data. All I was saying is that leaving the US would hurt their image

I do not think it would, it would show that they want to distance themselves from the over powering overlords of spying. Time will tell but I feel that we are now in a very special moment in history.

 

[Embattle]

Personally in certain cases I don't see a problem, I view that it should be similar method required as getting a search warrant which ironically allows the government to legally enter your house if they can convince a magistrate that they have probable cause and I reckon for a lot of people a house it probably a very private place hence the lock/locks on the door.

As for encryption I've got it here and there but I couldn't give a toss about the government looking at my phone it is more aimed at the odd person snooping for things like personal info and bank stuff, in a world of limited resources I doubt the government organisations would bother wasting serious resources on snooping on people who quite frankly will never matter.

I also think this whole thing will play in Apples favour for a while but one way or another I suspect they will eventually help the FBI by choice or by court order.

 

[Gwadien]

Personally in certain cases I don't see a problem, I view that it should be similar method required as getting a search warrant which ironically allows the government to legally enter your house if they can convince a magistrate that they have probable cause and I reckon for a lot of people a house it probably a very private place hence the lock/locks on the door.

As for encryption I've got it here and there but I couldn't give a toss about the government looking at my phone it is more aimed at the odd person snooping for things like personal info and bank stuff, in a world of limited resources I doubt the government organisations would bother wasting serious resources on snooping on people who quite frankly will never matter.

I also think this whole thing will play in Apples favour for a while but one way or another I suspect they will eventually help the FBI by choice or by court order.

Conversely, you could say by your logic the Police should be able to arrest Doctors who refuse to release their patients files.

 

[Job]

Firstly I fucking hate Apple, secondly if this terrorist had killed a member of my family I would be tempted to waterboard the CEO.
The game is over and wtf are Apple trying to prove, that their encryption is beyond the law...that pedos can use ipoons..or maybe someone who wants to blow up your local cinema.
If Apple don't play then the States will force them too.

 

[TdC]

are you actually retarded, Job?

 

[Scouse]

Encryption either works for everyone @Job, or it works for nobody.

But in the case of terrorists, they can use alternative encryption. So if the FBI gets its way then encryption will be broken for the very people who need it most - people who know nothing about it (like you). Whereas terrorists will continue on a business-as-usual basis.


Personally, I suspect the FBI knows this full well and the terrorism angle is just an angle for them.

 

[DaGaffer]

are you actually retarded, Job?

You actually had to ask?

 

[DaGaffer]

Surely the end game for Apple is to move to:


I'm sure Elon Musk could give them the name of a good real estate agent.

 

[TdC]

You actually had to ask?

I'm sorry, I've had rather a lot to drink :-(

 

[Zarjazz]

... reading deeper into his customer letter it seems that Apple "could" bypass certain security features of the iPhone. No doubt the multitude of Android phones are also insecure in some form.

As you say Apples response is carefully worded with no outright statement that it's 100% not technically possible, just that they can't bypass the current iOS version. The current theory is that the FBI request is also worded in a very particular way suggesting they know Apple won't & can't bypass the protection as it stands but instead are asking for Apple to install a customer firmware / boot loader / iOS to get around it. Legally the former would get rejected by a judge in court but the latter can still be argued.

 

[Job]

Of course they can do it, the ongoing argument about encryption has only one outcome, and that is if people start hiding behind it, then everything encrypted will have to be seen as criminal, a with us or against us approach.
We either ban in totally and prosecute those who use it regardless of what they may actually be encrypting, or we wait for a singularity of encryption against decryption being played out on a supercomputer somewhere.

 

[Scouse]

Of course they can do it, the ongoing argument about encryption has only one outcome, and that is if people start hiding behind it, then everything encrypted will have to be seen as criminal, a with us or against us approach.
We either ban in totally and prosecute those who use it regardless of what they may actually be encrypting, or we wait for a singularity of encryption against decryption being played out on a supercomputer somewhere.

So should we not encrypt bank transactions? Or should they just be poorly encrypted abd open to hack?


Face it m8 - you have zero grasp of what you're on about.