1.81C - Heavy Tank changes

[Chronictank]

- Level 35 Spell/Ability - Climbing Spikes: Self castable buff which lasts for 30 seconds that grants Climb Walls. The player will have the ability to climb walls for a short duration of time. While climbing a wall, any hit that does more than 31 damage will knock the player off the wall. Furthermore, any hit which knocks the player off the wall will hit for double damage. If the buff runs out while the player is on the wall and he/she does not reach an area where they can walk again, they will be knocked off the wall. Re-useable every 60 seconds. (Note: Currently this spell does not have an icon which makes it unable to be used. This will be addressed in a future version of Pendragon.)

ROFL
thats just a joke tbh

melee stealthers were only spose to be granted that ability, and rightly so
it made them unique in that aspect

 

[eggy]

I see alot of ppl talking about not having any resists in albgroup if not having a Friar in the mix.

Has anyone tried the new resistchants on the pally?
Heat/Cold/Matter & Body/Spirit/Energy.

Dont know if you can twist it in with end or not but if so then you can get resists without having a friar in the group and get an arms in that spot instead.

They're on a short range like endurance and aren't 24% like friar resists; but yeh they help.

 

[Heta]

Much easier to just cast the CL buff then chanting the resists if no friar in group

 

[Lethul]

They're on a short range like endurance and aren't 24% like friar resists; but yeh they help.

havent paladins had them for ages tho? or am i wrong?
but anyway, we tried them, they suck

 

[Flimgoblin]

the bard/skald have them too but they cost no power...

the paladin ones drain yer power (apparently not a huge issue when twisting but still annoying)

probably have crap range too

 

[Heta]

yes, paladin had them for ages. and they drain power, and 1 extra key to hit when twisting is 1 key to much tbh!! and it is poo range.. but when this patch is live, DR have been for some time aswell and then you got the 10% castabel buff from acoloyte CL line

 

[Ballard]

They're on a short range like endurance and aren't 24% like friar resists; but yeh they help.

No the only paladin chant that is short range is the end chant. All other chants are exactly the same range i.e. 1500

the bard/skald have them too but they cost no power...

the paladin ones drain yer power (apparently not a huge issue when twisting but still annoying)

probably have crap range too

Unlike the new chants that bard/skald have recieved the paladin chants stack with other casted resists, so they are better in that respect. Regarding range see above. And yes the power use is annoying, Paladin chants should be all powerless except for the end chant. if you are just twisting the end , tri resist and one other during combat only, its not too bad but in long fights you will go out of power.

 

[Marc]

No the only paladin chant that is short range is the end chant. All other chants are exactly the same range i.e. 1500



Unlike the new chants that bard/skald have recieved the paladin chants stack with other casted resists, so they are better in that respect. Regarding range see above. And yes the power use is annoying, Paladin chants should be all powerless except for the end chant. if you are just twisting the end , tri resist and one other during combat only, its not too bad but in long fights you will go out of power.

Is it possible to twist say the 20% heat resist and the 20% cold/matter/heat resist, thus getting 40% resist for a short period of time?

 

[Ballard]

Is it possible to twist say the 20% heat resist and the 20% cold/matter/heat resist, thus getting 40% resist for a short period of time?

The top pally multi resist chants are 10%.

These chants do not stack with the other pally 20% single resist chants to the best of my knowledge. The do stack with the casted friar/cleric resists tho.

If you were twisting a single line resist, the multi resist and end you would also go out of power quite fast

 

[Ballard]

The 20% single resist for heat and cold are also at 47 and 48 chants. So you would have to be speced for them aswell You do give up a bit to spec so high in chants.

 

[Puppet]

the bard/skald have them too but they cost no power...

the paladin ones drain yer power (apparently not a huge issue when twisting but still annoying)

probably have crap range too

Paladin ones stack with casted resists aswell tho, the bard/skald ones dont. Also paladin has normal resists chants aswell which dont cost mana. They aint tri tho, but not like thát matters. You can run the basic COLD one and counter basically all magic-damage, except chanters who debuff anyhow.

 

[Ballard]

Paladin ones stack with casted resists aswell tho, the bard/skald ones dont. Also paladin has normal resists chants aswell which dont cost mana. They aint tri tho, but not like thát matters. You can run the basic COLD one and counter basically all magic-damage, except chanters who debuff anyhow.

Yup definetly on excalibur/prywden. Main problem with this is you have to be speced 48 chants for that cold resist. leaving you with 32 slash and high damage variance untill rr7.

 

[Puppet]

Yup definetly on excalibur/prywden. Main problem with this is you have to be speced 48 chants for that cold resist. leaving you with 32 slash and high damage variance untill rr7.

You dont need to go 50 shield tho, Brutalize isnt needed as in a FG nobody attacks a paladin head-on, and if they do Im quite sure slam alone will do just fine.

Can go 48 chants, 42 shield, 34 slash 24 parry if you like, or lower parry for more slash etc etc.

 

[Ballard]

You dont need to go 50 shield tho, Brutalize isnt needed as in a FG nobody attacks a paladin head-on, and if they do Im quite sure slam alone will do just fine.

Can go 48 chants, 42 shield, 34 slash 24 parry if you like, or lower parry for more slash etc etc.

Yup very true, Im coming from classic sever with no BG, so 50 shield is essential

 

[SethNaket]

3xhealer, 1xshaman, 1xBGwarrior with approaching 3400hp(with this and DR hp additions, this wont be hard to get, same for heroes/armsmen remember), 1xBG savage in the assist train with 2 more zerkers, you have anything a group would ever need. Seriously, you'd have to ALL be playing shit to loose against another FG with that setup.

That group would lose 9/10 against both caba/sorc/merc and chanter/eld/bm/vamp style hybrid setups. 3400 hp doesn't matter much if you're getting assist-debuff nuked out of heal range and can't charge back to safety.

I still agree with you that it's still a mid boost though, since they're the only realm that can use their heavy tank in a good hybrid setup like warr/zerk/rm/sm/bd.

Can go 48 chants, 42 shield, 34 slash 24 parry if you like, or lower parry for more slash etc etc.

You mean the suck-spec (tm)?
Better off going 2hand which unfortunatly doesn't leave enough points to get 48 chants...

 

[Edlina]

You mean the suck-spec (tm)?
Better off going 2hand which unfortunatly doesn't leave enough points to get 48 chants...

That spec is fine as a bg'er rly could also ditch the parry like pupp suggested

 

[Puppet]

You mean the suck-spec (tm)?
Better off going 2hand which unfortunatly doesn't leave enough points to get 48 chants...

I fail to see why the spec I proposed sucks, why does it suck and why does a 2H pala better ?!

 

[Dumle]

3400 hp doesn't matter much if you're getting assist-debuff nuked out of heal range and can't charge back to safety..

I dont understand how the hell you can get it to that a warrior will have 3400hp. I saw another poster saying the same thing.

I am a norse warrior with 12 concap, unfortunately no hpcap in this suit (I set out to make a suit with all resists capped and other goodies so hp will have to wait til next suit ) and I have 2389 hp fully buffed.

Lets say for arguments sake I get 200 hpcap (sacrificing a whole lot of other stuff by doing that) and 26 concap I will probably have about 2600-2650 hp.
Now the boost to warrior hp will be 10%. Now Im no wiz in math but that in my eyes doesnt get me to 3400, not even close.

To reach 3400 I would probably need Aug Con 4 and Toughness 4 + SoK charge on top of the other things.

An extra 10% hps on the heavy tanks will mean 1 more mainhandswing from a Merc/BM or half a nuke from a Firewizz/Bainshee.

Basically it will only provide a second more time for the healers to heal the bodyguarder which IMO is only a good thing as the big job a warrior has is to stay alive.

 

[SethNaket]

First, if you're going to play as BGer you don't need shield. Second, if you're going to play a *good* BGer you will end up grappling a lot, cancelling your chants which defeats the purpose of trying to come up with a 48 chants spec to begin with.

You only need slam if you're going to play offensivly and if you're going to play offensivly you don't want your only damage to be a paltry 34 slash, you want 50 2hand and let your mercs to slam.

 

[SethNaket]

I dont understand how the hell you can get it to that a warrior will have 3400hp. I saw another poster saying the same thing.

Don't ask me, I was just responding to a post saying 3400hp tanks will be great. I suppose it's from the 5 extra champion levels + 10% boost in the 1.81C. If you have 2600 now you'll probably have like 3000 with CL5 and then a few 100 more depending on if the 10% is a boost to the "base" hp or actual hp.

 

[xxManiacxx]

Well I can get close to 3k hp on my SB when DR arrives.
con5 toughness5 101con 400hp

 

[Dumle]

Well I can get close to 3k hp on my SB when DR arrives.
con5 toughness5 101con 400hp

Yes but tough 5 is 400 more hps, pretty nice waste of 34 rsps tho

Can never afford that on warrior, Priorities are for Det and Soldiers barricade IMO and capping those will be 7L4 I think, after that I can think about passives.

 

[Vindicator]

That group would lose 9/10 against both caba/sorc/merc and chanter/eld/bm/vamp style hybrid setups. 3400 hp doesn't matter much if you're getting assist-debuff nuked out of heal range and can't charge back to safety.

Didnt you see these abilitys?

- Level 40 Shout - Rampage: Group shout which increases the chance to resist debuffs by 35%. Lasts for 10 seconds. Re-usable every 5 minutes.

- Level 50 Shout - Fury: Self only shout which gives a 50% chance to deflect crowd control spells (similar to the RR5 Bonedancer ability), and increases resists to magic spells by 50% for 10 seconds. Re-usable every 15 minutes.

Even without the self protection, the lvl 40 shout is on a 5 min timer and would royalely stuff a debuff group.

The fact is, having these new abilities in a group is a huge benefit and mid are the only realm who can slot them in without a second thought of group setups tank or caster alike.

 

[SethNaket]

Didnt you see these abilitys?

- Level 40 Shout - Rampage: Group shout which increases the chance to resist debuffs by 35%. Lasts for 10 seconds. Re-usable every 5 minutes.

- Level 50 Shout - Fury: Self only shout which gives a 50% chance to deflect crowd control spells (similar to the RR5 Bonedancer ability), and increases resists to magic spells by 50% for 10 seconds. Re-usable every 15 minutes.

Even without the self protection, the lvl 40 shout is on a 5 min timer and would royalely stuff a debuff group.

Yes I saw them, and I think they'll be mostly useless. 10 second duration when most fights last minutes or more. The resist debuff one seems completely useless because even if you manage to time it perfectly just before a caster is starting to debuff, the debuff will still have about 50% to land so the ability might be for nothing. The 50% resist might be good to save one person from death but if the other group spots it they will just kite 10s more and the heavy tank again will be left in the dust since he still doesn't have charge.

The fact is, having these new abilities in a group is a huge benefit and mid are the only realm who can slot them in without a second thought of group setups tank or caster alike.

That's not fact, it's your opinion. Apart from the pbae CC cure, the only ability that looks like more than fluff is the passive resist boost. But even with all those things heavy tanks still don't have charge or banelord which kills it for all except warrior.

 

[Vindicator]

Well Its not going to be useless as you make out but I do concide that 10s is a short duration. Those fights are so fast that even 10secs will help and you know your self how fast a debuff grp works with picking targets - debuff - nuke - kill- next. 10 secs extra protection against them will valuable regardless of how much you down size it.

That's not fact, it's your opinion. Apart from the pbae CC cure, the only ability that looks like more than fluff is the passive resist boost. But even with all those things heavy tanks still don't have charge or banelord which kills it for all except warrior.

No my opinion is that these changes will greatly benefit a group, which they are abilities that were not available previously so of course they are going to benefit a group how is that an opinion, its common sense? A fact is it is easier for mids to squeeze a warrior in without losing anything in comparasion to albs and hibs. As has been illustrated several times on this topic and even before this thread of mid as an overall realm. If you wish to disprove that please do but Im afraid you will probably go blue in the fact trying to.

Dont get me wrong man, Im not saying these new abilities are 'OMG WTF PWN" and all that but I certainly wouldnt dismiss them automatically as you seem to be doing. Heavy tanks have been left with nothing for a long time and now at least they have finally been given something.

I'll tell you one thing, getting these new abilities is better than getting a kick in the stones

 

[Ballard]

First, if you're going to play as BGer you don't need shield.

You forget that a shield pally is twice as hard to kill (with tanks) as a 2 handed pally. That alone makes them alot better at BG'ing than a 2 hander.

 

[Anarawan]

if i read correctly these changes arent retroactive...
so i guess /reroll heavy tanks?


maybe wrong

 

[SethNaket]

No my opinion is that these changes will greatly benefit a group, which they are abilities that were not available previously so of course they are going to benefit a group how is that an opinion, its common sense? A fact is it is easier for mids to squeeze a warrior in without losing anything in comparasion to albs and hibs. As has been illustrated several times on this topic and even before this thread of mid as an overall realm. If you wish to disprove that please do but Im afraid you will probably go blue in the fact trying to.

What you actually said was

The fact is, having these new abilities in a group is a huge benefit and mid are the only realm who can slot them in without a second thought of group setups tank or caster alike.

It's not a fact that they're a huge benefit, it's your opinion. I for one disagree, compared to another charge/banelord tank I think it's not a benefit at all except for mids where it's close.

Where you get the idea that I would want to disprove that mids are the only ones who can fit them in group I don't know, as I've been saying the same thing in each reply. I can only assume you don't bother to read the posts except the part you take objection to and quote in a reply.

You forget that a shield pally is twice as hard to kill (with tanks) as a 2 handed pally. That alone makes them alot better at BG'ing than a 2 hander.

Not really, he will sometimes be twice as hard to kill (if he happens to fight a single 2hand tank that doesn't move around), most of the time only a little harder. The best defense is strafe and grapple, neither are effected by your shield skill. If you can entice the enemy tanks to hit the paladin to begin with, chances are you'll win the fight so 2hand might actually be an advantage in that regard. The 2hand pally will hit twice as hard though (always not just sometimes).

Getting off track though, I thought this was about heavy tank love not paladins.

 

[Ballard]

if i read correctly these changes arent retroactive...
so i guess /reroll heavy tanks?


maybe wrong

yup you are in the first version of this patch on pendragon the current tanks are not affected, by the time it goes live all Heros/armsmans/warriors will get the benefits.

 

[Eleasias]

con5 tough5 on a tank? gg xD

first of all, extra hp's and stuff are basicly useless because the last thing standing on the battlefield is the heavy tank, and its not because they are so hard to take down but because they are the least threat.

and you need purge3, det5, sb3, maybe dashing defence, mop5, aug str, gl getting aug con5 and tough5