Spiritmaster Pet - Intercept.. Some testing

Puppet · Sep 21, 2005

I made some testings on the SM-pet intercept-rate on the testserver available to E&E's. I made a spiritmaster - specced him Summoning (for buffs on pet) and a remainder in Darkness to tap my victim

The total log can be downloaded on http://members.home.nl/dh6a/sm-pet.txt

Against Mirapwned the pet is shaman-buffbotted and the attacker is a shaman with 691 WS

Against Miraaaaaa the pet is buffed by my Summoning gimpy buffs, attacking zerker is unbuffed, and has 1237 WS..

Because its very tedious to read the log, its best to use a log-parser to see the resulsts of the test:

A good log parser is:
http://www.cse.msu.edu/cgi-user/penney/parser.cgi

Upload the file u downloaded from my webbie (the log) to the parser to verify the resulsts yourselves:

Against shaman (single-wield / 691 WS) : 79.1% intercept-rate - 148/187
Against zerk (dual-wield/some 2H / 1237 WS): 73.9% intercept-rate 515/697

Conclusion:
So basically a Spiritmaster has roughly 70-80% chance not to take damage from ANY melee AND not be interrupted AND alternatively, with the pet on passive, not be in combat. As you can see in the log I used First-Aid (out of combat RA) successfully various times during the 'fight' with the berserker.

Im curious about people's opinion. Is this balanced? Is this justified by the Spiritmasters damage-output (DD183 Lifetap when Dark-spec, DD331 PBAE when Supp Spec), lack of utility or poor RA/ML-path (convoker/stormlord like most casters, access to normal Caster-RA's) choice compared to other casters?

miracle-mm · Sep 21, 2005

ofc it is very balansed so less qq mate

charmangle · Sep 21, 2005

Hmm...actually thought it was higher...

Puppet said:
I made some testings on the SM-pet intercept-rate on the testserver available to E&E's. I made a spiritmaster - specced him Summoning (for buffs on pet) and a remainder in Darkness to tap my victim

The total log can be downloaded on http://members.home.nl/dh6a/sm-pet.txt

Against Mirapwned the pet is shaman-buffbotted and the attacker is a shaman with 691 WS

Against Miraaaaaa the pet is buffed by my Summoning gimpy buffs, attacking zerker is unbuffed, and has 1237 WS..

Because its very tedious to read the log, its best to use a log-parser to see the resulsts of the test:

A good log parser is:
http://www.cse.msu.edu/cgi-user/penney/parser.cgi

Upload the file u downloaded from my webbie (the log) to the parser to verify the resulsts yourselves:

Against shaman (single-wield / 691 WS) : 79.1% intercept-rate - 148/187
Against zerk (dual-wield/some 2H / 1237 WS): 73.9% intercept-rate 515/697

Conclusion:
So basically a Spiritmaster has roughly 70-80% chance not to take damage from ANY melee AND not be interrupted AND alternatively, with the pet on passive, not be in combat. As you can see in the log I used First-Aid (out of combat RA) successfully various times during the 'fight' with the berserker.

Im curious about people's opinion. Is this balanced? Is this justified by the Spiritmasters damage-output (DD183 Lifetap when Dark-spec, DD331 PBAE when Supp Spec), lack of utility or poor RA/ML-path (convoker/stormlord like most casters, access to normal Caster-RA's) choice compared to other casters?

Well I actually thought it would be higher. But no its very over powered in my opinion and my main is a suppsm. BUT on the priority list of overpoweredness its about 10% of banshees, baselinestun and shrooms. Remove / downgrade those and then start on sms.

/Charmangle

Smackboy · Sep 21, 2005

For someone who plays an SM as main, i have to say that pet intercept is to high. Sometimes its just rediculous how much the pet intercepts and you cant feel nothing else but sorry for the meele guy that attacked you. Its still random tho, and sometimes the pet idosent intercept a single hit, but the opposite is more common. I think a intercept rate should be about 30-35%ish, that would still be very powerful but not as extreme as it is today.

Only thing i will disagree on abit is the interuption part. For a buffed dual wielder (for decent attack speed) its enough to get a single hit in every other swing to keep the caster interupted, or atleast at almost every occasion. So a 75% intercept dosent automaticly translate into 75% unint spellcasting.

Furthermore i think its good that someone tested pet intercept, its always been said that it intercepts 50%ish and all the whiners had just a bad roll on the dice. But anyone who plays an SM can say thats not the case.

One question at last, did you test with pet on "here" or just follow so it was abit distance between the SM and the pet? A general feeling is that the pet intercept more when on top of you, but i have no facts to back that up with, and im not sure that i even think so, unless the pet is way off ofcause.

Graendel · Sep 21, 2005

I want a pet :< Something like Summon Smellysox would be nice.

Puppet · Sep 21, 2005

Smackboy said:
Only thing i will disagree on abit is the interuption part. For a buffed dual wielder (for decent attack speed) its enough to get a single hit in every other swing to keep the caster interupted, or atleast at almost every occasion. So a 75% intercept dosent automaticly translate into 75% unint spellcasting.

You're right about that part, aye I forgot about that. In the case of a buffed dualwielder he has 0.75^4 chance (=31%) to not get interrupted. That is, if he swings both times with both weapons (not trivial for Alb/Hib dualwielders, contrary to the zerk who I used in the test).

Furthermore i think its good that someone tested pet intercept, its always been said that it intercepts 50%ish and all the whiners had just a bad roll on the dice. But anyone who plays an SM can say thats not the case.

Actually I was pretty expecting somewhere around this result. Also pretty nice to see that Dualwielding and WS has no signficiant impact on the intercept-rate.

One question at last, did you test with pet on "here" or just follow so it was abit distance between the SM and the pet? A general feeling is that the pet intercept more when on top of you, but i have no facts to back that up with, and im not sure that i even think so, unless the pet is way off ofcause.

I forgot to mention that. I put pet on Passive, Stay and stepped next infront of it. Reckon its abit further off in normal RvR, but not more then 100 units.

Still if u consider u need to intercept 2 successfull swings u get:

* Atleast 31% passive chance to not being interrupted by a dualwielder
* 56% passive chance to not being interrupted by a singlewielder.

Approx 75% damage reduction in melee. That's WAY of the Physical Defense RA-scale.

I agree its still a random chance, but obviously those are the mathematical odds we're talking about. Over time these are the numbers you face.

delete · Sep 21, 2005

CuddleBunny! · Sep 21, 2005

Graendel said:
I want a pet :< Something like Summon Smellysox would be nice.

i want a summon graendel for pve fun spell

Samaroon EatsCheese · Sep 21, 2005

Smackboy said:
For someone who plays an SM as main, i have to say that pet intercept is to high. Sometimes its just rediculous how much the pet intercepts and you cant feel nothing else but sorry for the meele guy that attacked you. Its still random tho, and sometimes the pet idosent intercept a single hit, but the opposite is more common. I think a intercept rate should be about 30-35%ish, that would still be very powerful but not as extreme as it is today.

Only thing i will disagree on abit is the interuption part. For a buffed dual wielder (for decent attack speed) its enough to get a single hit in every other swing to keep the caster interupted, or atleast at almost every occasion. So a 75% intercept dosent automaticly translate into 75% unint spellcasting.

Furthermore i think its good that someone tested pet intercept, its always been said that it intercepts 50%ish and all the whiners had just a bad roll on the dice. But anyone who plays an SM can say thats not the case.

One question at last, did you test with pet on "here" or just follow so it was abit distance between the SM and the pet? A general feeling is that the pet intercept more when on top of you, but i have no facts to back that up with, and im not sure that i even think so, unless the pet is way off ofcause.

ye its too high, yet you still gotta use moc everytime you see me

Corran · Sep 21, 2005

Nice test puppet, cant believe i saying that

With that kind of % it is rather overpowered, it like a always up sorc rr5 to be honest and we all know the amount of complaints from mids over that, and sorc even needs moc to be able to cast during that time unlike the sm.

Not sure what can be done about it though, lowering the % chance would be the best bet but mythic probably just say that it was bad luck (even with the amount of swings involved.) 50% max but to be honest i think a 25% chance is far. Still a very good chance of not being interupted. I know i would love to have a 25% chance on any of my casters of not being interupted.

May be an idea to test this against a buffed target as well and see if the increased weapon skill makes a difference (highly doubt it). If you ever get chance would be interesting to see if buffed zerker gets it under 70% intercept rate.. i would hope it could but not confident it would

SkarIronfist · Sep 21, 2005

My opinion for what its worth (I am a BD I know), is the Dark Sm is the best Mid caster, especially when it reaches RR5.5 (Purge 2 + MOC 3). It can deal alot of damage and be very hard to kill and its alot less situational than a supp SM.

The convoker line is very handy for this character. Giving it the brittle guards and the ML9 pet.

One think I notice you didn't test is the pet in ML9 mode standing ontop of you. The advantage is, when you are out of power ... your pet can still kick the crap out of someone.

Normally though, the SM pet will go out with full red buffs from a shammy.

Puppet · Sep 21, 2005

SkarIronfist said:
One think I notice you didn't test is the pet in ML9 mode standing ontop of you.

If you watch the log manually u can see where I ML9 on the pet. I tested with and without the ML9.

Unfortunaly there's no parser who can seperate those 2 instances. Personally I doubt both buffs on the pet and ML9 have any impact on the intercept-rate (i quickly tried to seperate them)

Biggest difference is: With buffs (and ML9) the pet is unkillable by any melee during the duration of a fight.

Smackboy · Sep 21, 2005

Puppet said:
Actually I was pretty expecting somewhere around this result. Also pretty nice to see that Dualwielding and WS has no signficiant impact on the intercept-rate.

I have always been pretty sure that high WS and dual wield did cut through the pet intercept more often. But it seems like that feeling was wrong. I may have to do with that due to chance for offhand hit they actualy have a better chance to interupt, or just plain because bm:s and mercs just hurts so much when they hit

Puppet said:
Still if u consider u need to intercept 2 successfull swings u get:

* Atleast 31% passive chance to not being interrupted by a dualwielder
* 56% passive chance to not being interrupted by a singlewielder.

Approx 75% damage reduction in melee. That's WAY of the Physical Defense RA-scale.

I agree its still a random chance, but obviously those are the mathematical odds we're talking about. Over time these are the numbers you face.

Concerning the interuption, the biggest "advantage" is when a meele guy is runnin towards you. If pet intercepts the alpha strike, you have atleast 2 free nukes more, because of the castspeed and that you can still cast a nuke when you get interupted in the latter parts of the "cast procedure"

I can only agree about the damage reduction, its spelled silly.

Samaroon said:
ye its too high, yet you still gotta use moc everytime you see me

I actually remember once i used moc vs you, on oriens (where else) when you went for me and a necro nuked me. I MoCed, i died and you did some random emote (not hugs and kisses) spamming towards me. If i have used a RA i spent 30 rps towards you (How dare I?) on a different occasion i am truly sorry and didnt know that it would hurt your feelings.

Samaroon EatsCheese · Sep 21, 2005

Smackboy said:
I actually remember once i used moc vs you, on oriens (where else) when you went for me and a necro nuked me. I MoCed, i died and you did some random emote (not hugs and kisses) spamming towards me. If i have used a RA i spent 30 rps towards you (How dare I?) on a different occasion i am truly sorry and didnt know that it would hurt your feelings.

that time on oriens iirc, i attacked you first.. didnt see no necro but you ml9'ed, still could hardly hit you for shit then you moc'ed me down ><

but you've done it to me plenty of times on other beno bridge, near docks, at bled etc. think ive met you once where you haven't moc'ed

Dallas · Sep 21, 2005

just remove moc from sms then

or remove pet intercept and give em a usefull pet rr5..

Chimaira · Sep 21, 2005

And Smack whines belongs to this thread because Sama?

Discuss the friggin SM pet 0f d00m.

Smackboy · Sep 21, 2005

Samaroon EatsCheese said:
that time on oriens iirc, i attacked you first.. didnt see no necro but you ml9'ed, still could hardly hit you for shit then you moc'ed me down ><

but you've done it to me plenty of times on other beno bridge, near docks, at bled etc. think ive met you once where you haven't moc'ed

Well you cant blame me that much, a Banelord Merc on drugs (charge) aint a casters best friend so to speak

But to be frank, to moc down a solo tank aint more fun than getting the 800ish RPs via rvr mission. So its really a last resort.

Samaroon EatsCheese · Sep 21, 2005

nothing really to discuss except its op

and ill whine at smack whenever i get the chance

Smackboy said:
Well you cant blame me that much, a Banelord Merc on drugs (charge) aint a casters best friend so to speak
But to be frank, to moc down a solo tank aint more fun than getting the 800ish RPs via rvr mission. So its really a last resort.

and nah dont blame you for using it, but im still gonna whine ^^

Aoln · Sep 21, 2005

thats obscene

Maeloch · Sep 21, 2005

Samaroon EatsCheese said:
that time on oriens iirc, i attacked you first.. didnt see no necro but you ml9'ed, still could hardly hit you for shit then you moc'ed me down ><

but you've done it to me plenty of times on other beno bridge, near docks, at bled etc. think ive met you once where you haven't moc'ed

tbh charge = insta win vs casters. If he's not allowed to MoC, you're not allowed to charge

.

Profion · Sep 21, 2005

When you come to the stage when you need to do a fucking report on a class "OPness" maby its time to stop playing the game.

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Inso · Sep 21, 2005

I asume you tested it with a char that had more WS then a washcloth aswell?

CstasY · Sep 21, 2005

Profion said:
When you come to the stage when you need to do a fucking report on a class "OPness" maby its time to stop playing the game.

QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

Use your brain, what do you think would happen if nobody did any tests in this game? Forget about TL reports.. Nothing would ever get changed. The test is interesting for some, and if you dont find it fucking interesting, dont bother giving us your clueless oppinion on the matter.

Puppet · Sep 21, 2005

Caeli said:
I asume you tested it with a char that had more WS then a washcloth aswell?

There's 2 test, one with 691 WS (buffed shaman) and one with an unbuffed zerk (~1250 WS) . There's no difference (within an error-margin obv) between the intercept-rate of both. If an 90% WS increase has close to zero impact, im pretty sure a 200% increase in WS does very little aswell. Notice how the zerk dualwields, so that makes (seemingly) no difference aswell.

And I tested it, yes Profion. Perhaps I should stop playing the game, but dont think higher of yourselves when you respond to the topic within approximatly an hour of posting..

Aoln · Sep 21, 2005

Profion said:
When you come to the stage when you need to do a fucking report on a class "OPness" maby its time to stop playing the game.

QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

Arent you like rr11?

I wonder what the difference of time is between getting rr11 and doing a simple test :d

Xxcalibur · Sep 21, 2005

nice test :d lets re roll all sms and bds pd5 now ^^

Smackboy · Sep 21, 2005

Puppet said:
There's 2 test, one with 691 WS (buffed shaman) and one with an unbuffed zerk (~1250 WS) . There's no difference (within an error-margin obv) between the intercept-rate of both. If an 90% WS increase has close to zero impact, im pretty sure a 200% increase in WS does very little aswell. Notice how the zerk dualwields, so that makes (seemingly) no difference aswell.

Its seems like the WS is of no importance, but its still a valid question, and it would be best to test with a fully buffed tank to make it more like "real rvr" and rule out the whats ifs/nots.

One question to Puppet just out of curiosity. Why this recent interest/whine/nerfrequest or whatever i might to call it?

My SM was my first toon, and i rolled him sep/oct 2003, and the SM had an intercepting pet then, and i dont even know in which patch they got it in.
Just a reflection, as you often answered peoples complainings about BL stun on hib casters, with "they have always had it, why whine now etc"
Do you suspect that the interception has been stealth "upped" or is it only that its a very popular class to play atm so its been more visable?

Manisch Depressiv · Sep 21, 2005

Pet shout, slam, kill. Ah yeah, no one likes Warlord Armsmen and every SM has something else stuck to him anyway, be it a Majsan or a bot.

Good test.

Dreami · Sep 21, 2005

Everyone who doesn't play Mid knows it isn't balanced so useless to ask opinions.

Puppet · Sep 21, 2005

Smackboy said:
Its seems like the WS is of no importance, but its still a valid question, and it would be best to test with a fully buffed tank to make it more like "real rvr" and rule out the whats ifs/nots.

Would need another account then, or you could log that yourselves every day as a Mid

Unfortunaly I cant reliably test it without a third account (SM, Shaman, Tank)

One question to Puppet just out of curiosity. Why this recent interest/whine/nerfrequest or whatever i might to call it? My SM was my first toon, and i rolled him sep/oct 2003, and the SM had an intercepting pet then, and i dont even know in which patch they got it in.

I dont recall what patch they received it to be honest, but the test was more a result of some testing other stuff on the testserver. Normally test Hib stuff, tested some Warlock-stuff and decided to test Intercept-rate aswell.

Just a reflection, as you often answered peoples complainings about BL stun on hib casters, with "they have always had it, why whine now etc"
Do you suspect that the interception has been stealth "upped" or is it only that its a very popular class to play atm so its been more visable?

None of both. I dont use BL stun 'theyve always had it'-argument aswell :O Tho from my POV BL-stun is still purgeable and in the cases where it truely matters (caster vs caster) the one who lands either first nearsight or wins the interrupt-war, is the winner. Stun or no stun. That is, in stun or mezz. Root might be an entirely different matter, but to be honest: Root-only classes have different things to go for (bolts, pet or nearsight) which probably make a bigger difference then the CC form. Correct me there if Im wrong, but i dont play casters.

Just seems to be casting goes so bloooody fast that it doesnt really matter what u do. Need to Charge or u die within 900 units of the caster as a tank.

Spiritmaster Pet - Intercept.. Some testing

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