Spiritmaster Pet - Intercept.. Some testing

[Minstrel]

when intercpet pet inc some time ago, sm tl made test.
test was long, not only some 50 or 100 swings, tested whit buffs, whitout buffs etc.
in end pet was intercepting ~50%.
some short periods pet inter alott, some periods 0.

if you think sm blue pet whit ml9 can be ugly? compare this to sorc yellow pet + ml9 + some nasty abilitys what some frontier mobs have.

cabbys or enchanters never gona get even slight hint for intercept, both classes allready have different tools to protect self, example enchanters healing pet.
sm, ench + cabby is hard to compare.

about albs assist train and difficulties kill sm? look around and wonder what your sorc are doing that moment + his ml9 pet, even healers isnt so idiot he spam groupheals/aemezz when there isnt need.

thx for tests anyway, even its not valid.

chanter healing pet? aye that keeps u alive when u get assist train on u
and is it so hard for a sm to moc3 + lifetap the sorc while he got assist train on him?

 

[gwal]

whats the sorc got to do with anything at all?.....

this isnt a competition of proving who has the best pet, its a talk about how much dmg a SM can survive from tanks.

sure, the sorc can deal with him, but ppl can deal with the sorc too.

and u can say ur 50% whatever, there are SMs out there that use the pet properly, to the extend where tank trains dont even bother targetting them any more cause they know they cant kill them.


if u wanna cry about sorc ml9 pet, do so, but thats got nothing to do with this what so ever

 

[Puppet]

when intercpet pet inc some time ago, sm tl made test.
test was long, not only some 50 or 100 swings, tested whit buffs, whitout buffs etc.
in end pet was intercepting ~50%.
some short periods pet inter alott, some periods 0.

Dude... The test, like everything, is based on AVERAGES. On average (good 600 swings) its intercepting 74%. Ofcourse it can be streaky. On AVERAGE however its 74%.

if you think sm blue pet whit ml9 can be ugly? compare this to sorc yellow pet + ml9 + some nasty abilitys what some frontier mobs have.

Still, I kill the sorc and the pet wonders off. I can still interrupt the sorcerer with standard melee. The SM I know I will miss 74% of the time due to the pet intercepting.

cabbys or enchanters never gona get even slight hint for intercept, both classes allready have different tools to protect self, example enchanters healing pet.

LOL. Healing pet.. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Dark SM has mezz, root and a stun-proc (from the pet) to 'protect' itselves.. Yet they still deserve it? Clueless ftw.

thx for tests anyway, even its not valid.

Care to enlighten why its not valid? Because it involves your realm?

Thanks for response, even tho its the standard 'omg LA needs love, savage need love, warlock sucks now'-reply.

 

[Azathrim]

In the meantime I atleast take the effort to test stuff and come with arguments why I think the results are in practice imbalancing. If you call that 'whine' its pointless to discuss anything with you, seems you cannot take facts and honest testing when it involves something in your realm.

You see, that's where you are mistaken. You did the testing alright. But, you have given no argument as to why this is overpowered. All you have done is create a test and so what?

I am sure that a test could be made showing Mercs/Vampiirs have XX% melee immunity due to their fumble debuffs. So what?

A test could very easily be made to show that Necromancers have near 90% melee immunity while still being able to lifetap. So what?

All you have done is create a test. Point at a number and in a whiny voice yell nerf.

Good work Puppet. Next time bring some arguments as why this interrupts the Realm vs. Realm balance.
(And mind you, not the stealther vs. spiritmaster balance).

 

[gwal]

are u fckin kidding?.....

have u even red any of the posts

 

[Azathrim]

are u fckin kidding?.....

have u even red any of the posts

Yes. Have you read Puppets posts?

Point me to the post where he creates an argument for why this is destroying Realm vs. Realm balance.

 

[SethNaket]

Yes. Have you read Puppets posts?

Point me to the post where he creates an argument for why this is destroying Realm vs. Realm balance.

Why should we look for some post where he makes an argument for why it's destroying rvr when he never said it did? I think you're the one who needs to go back and actually read the posts.

Now with that out of the way; anyone that's not insane, braindamaged or plays only mid and can't stand losing knows that sm pet-intercept is owerpowered compared to other casters. That's probably why gwal asked you if you where kidding, cause to be honest your posts are f'n jokes.

 

[Azathrim]

Why should we look for some post where he makes an argument for why it's destroying rvr when he never said it did? I think you're the one who needs to go back and actually read the posts.

Ok, so he wasn't trying to state an argument? Fine then. So it was just groundless whining as usual? Ok, good to have that sorted then.

Now with that out of the way; anyone that's not insane, braindamaged or plays only mid and can't stand losing knows that sm pet-intercept is owerpowered compared to other casters. That's probably why gwal asked you if you where kidding, cause to be honest your posts are f'n jokes.

So, your argument is basicly "it's overpowered" added in with a bit of random flaming as per the usual FH standards? Hmm, now, that's a tough argument to refute. Let me try with one equally intelligent: No, it's not overpowered.

See, that brought the discussion leaps and miles!

Oh, and for your information: I play actively in all three realms.

 

[Septina]

Oh, and for your information: I play actively in all three realms.

Then you're either blind or a complete dumbass.

 

[Tuorin]

thx for tests anyway, even its not valid.

Comparing an enchanter healing pet to a sm intercept is so lol. What does chanter do when melee hit him? Sorcs soi and lt is tough but they still need a bg, if you hit for 5 damage thats okay you interupt unless moc, plus slam > moc. No-one is comparing them either. )

 

[Azathrim]

Then you're either blind or a complete dumbass.

So your argument is, that if anyone disagrees with your point of view they are "either blind or a complete dumbass"?

To be honest Septina, I had expected a higher level of argumentation from you.

 

[Corran]

Ok, so he wasn't trying to state an argument? Fine then. So it was just groundless whining as usual? Ok, good to have that sorted then.



So, your argument is basicly "it's overpowered" added in with a bit of random flaming as per the usual FH standards? Hmm, now, that's a tough argument to refute. Let me try with one equally intelligent: No, it's not overpowered.

See, that brought the discussion leaps and miles!

Oh, and for your information: I play actively in all three realms.

If you want to play a comparison game as to why it overpowered compared to other realms ok..

Pet = Melee, stun, intercept.. Can survive 5minutes without heals if fully buffed ML9'd. During which time 74% hits at the caster are blocked enabling him to nuke away still if no caster has chance to attack him. It is the equivelent of a free MoC3.

During the time that the hib/alb melee train is on the sm.. mid melee train could have killed half the enemy group due to the fact they got no form of protection like the sm. (please note im not taking bodyguard into this at the moment however if did so that means they can split the group between casters and get round the single bodyguarder or break another person of the assist be requiring 2 bodyguarders in place)

Now lets take an equivalent pet class... one that can lifetap and has a castable pet from alb... so that be a cabby.

Pet> melee & stun(as that the only useful one in rvr).... nothing more then what the sm got, and yet sm got the intercept pet.
Melee assist train attacks Cabby.. cabby cant cast ever unless he uses moc. Pet cant really help at all as out of 2-4 tanks only 1 has the chance of being stunned for a very short time.

So what the difference

SM survives for at least 175% of the time that a cabby does.
SM can do dmg without moc during that time if lucky. (need to intercept all a couple of times in row)
Mid support can go about interupting as no one needs a load of healing
Mid tanks can all attack targets as BG aint overly necessary

That alone makes a massive difference in a battle.... but nevermind.

 

[Smackboy]

Labeling it a perma 75% meele dam reduction isnt quite right in my opinion. One have to account for that its still a pet, that has to be standing right beside you, for the interception to work. Stun, root and mostly mess is a good way to handle the pet. Warlord scare pet thingi works like a charm, and if not any of those things work, get your caster to give the pet 3-4 sek attention.

Still, 75% intercept rate is way high ofcourse. I dont think the intercepting ability should be taken away thou, but adjusted somewhat. Its a really crappy pet without the intercept (and dont give me that crap about stunning pet).

 

[Vermillon]

when intercpet pet inc some time ago, sm tl made test.
test was long, not only some 50 or 100 swings, tested whit buffs, whitout buffs etc.
in end pet was intercepting ~50%.
some short periods pet inter alott, some periods 0.

if you think sm blue pet whit ml9 can be ugly? compare this to sorc yellow pet + ml9 + some nasty abilitys what some frontier mobs have.

cabbys or enchanters never gona get even slight hint for intercept, both classes allready have different tools to protect self, example enchanters healing pet.
sm, ench + cabby is hard to compare.

about albs assist train and difficulties kill sm? look around and wonder what your sorc are doing that moment + his ml9 pet, even healers isnt so idiot he spam groupheals/aemezz when there isnt need.

thx for tests anyway, even its not valid.

What is not valid s to compare a groups effort with a single class ability.

 

[Corran]

Still, 75% intercept rate is way high ofcourse. I dont think the intercepting ability should be taken away thou, but adjusted somewhat. Its a really crappy pet without the intercept (and dont give me that crap about stunning pet).

I think thats all some people would ask.. 25-35% intercept rate is more then enough. Gives sm a good advantage still but not totally overpowering. All i would ask to be done is lower the % and then it more balanced then what it is now

 

[SethNaket]

Ok, so he wasn't trying to state an argument? Fine then. So it was just groundless whining as usual? Ok, good to have that sorted then.

I'll give you a few more tries to actually understand the discussion, feels like it's pointless to explain the same thing over and over. Just read the damn posts, it's not that hard.

So, your argument is basicly "it's overpowered" added in with a bit of random flaming as per the usual FH standards? Hmm, now, that's a tough argument to refute. Let me try with one equally intelligent: No, it's not overpowered.

Any caster having a 30+% chance of not getting interrupted by a melee attacker would be poorly balanced, anyone who plays a caster would give an arm and a leg for that ability. Any caster having 75% "baseline" damage reduction from melee would be the same (as puppet said, 34 realm points for a 28% reduction is the best anyone else can hope for). A caster having both of these would be simply overpowered.

This has already been covered by others in the thread which is why I didn't feel it was nescessary to repeat it, but hey we already established you have trouble actually reading the posts so there you go.

Oh, and for your information: I play actively in all three realms.

Well then, assuming you're not lying that leaves two other options doesn't it?

 

[Puppet]

Yes. Have you read Puppets posts?

Point me to the post where he creates an argument for why this is destroying Realm vs. Realm balance.

I didnt say it destroys RvR. I said it was overpowered. Overpowered because OTHER casters spend 34 RA-points for a 28% reduction in melee-damage, and SM's dont pay anything for 74% reduction in melee-damage.


I could hold a long essay how damage (ranged) is a trade-off for being fragile in the game, and Warlock/BD/SM doesnt fall under this. Not gonna bother with that instead, explain how a 74% reduction in melee-damage is free, 34RA-points for 28% and you dont think thats unfair or imbalanced.

Say for example Bainshees get free Mastery of Magery 18. Would that be fair? Hell no would be insane. Yet Spiritmasters receive Physical Defense ~18. THAT is the unfair part about it. Which is imbalanced = overpowered.

 

[Septina]

So your argument is, that if anyone disagrees with your point of view they are "either blind or a complete dumbass"?

To be honest Septina, I had expected a higher level of argumentation from you.

How's that? If you cant see that the sm pet intercept rate is higher even when you play all three realms there's obviously something wrong.
We even have mids and spiritmasters in this thread saying that the intercept rate on the pet is stupid.

I have an rr4 sm myself and the intercept rate is just retarded and i dont even have ml9 yet.

Had a test a while back with Osril (rr11 zerk) fully buffed.
Had jugg2 on the sm we tried it with at the time and the pet intercepted EVERY attack.
He didnt land a single blow on anything else than the pet.

If you're saying that this is balanced then ok, i dont really wanna know your definition of balance.

 

[Heta]

if someone doesn't see that the sm pet is overpowered they must for sure have been bit by a large retard bat

 

[Pudzy]

So your argument is, that if I disagree with experienced players points of view then I'm "either blind or a complete dumbass"?

To be honest Septina, I had expected a higher level of argumentation from you (because your rr10+ you should be a leet forum whiner).

olollool.

 

[Dorin]

I wouldnt say its like bodyguard as the high intercept rate is still abit random so you do get interrupted most of the time... but with ml9+mocLT+(purge too mabeh) its just sick

a solo melee class needs to get REALLY lucky to be able to kill a dark sm without moc, with moc you are goner.

wonderin why does some mids say its okay - dont qq, get a caster (lol?) - whatever biased bullshit, amusing at least :F though same ppl who said zerkers or svgs were justified.
For me it wasnt a qq, just a test which puppet did.

With varius debuffs - ae mezz - high delved LT with 90% hp recover - intercept pet - lowbie pb against pets and such, sm is one of the best casters in the "tankish" camelot we are playing in atm.

Saying its ok or whatever is just pure ignorance i thought its abit over the top but after playing my chanter for 6 ranks or so i sure did miss that pet... its kinda stupid to compare intercept pet to anything, being melee invulnerable with (mocallthetimemiracle)LT is unique sorta... oh and mids with almost melee immune casters who got access to banelord abilities aswell xD (pd5 bd with instaLT + healing pets, warcock unint lt, sm intercept pet + lt) are sure in need of a phat nerf.

Imo the intercept should be nerfed down to 25-30% tops or the pet should take full dmg while mnined.

Just play an alb or hib caster and you will see clearly.

edit: oh and yeah we dont give up anything for this, no need to spec summoning or something... so basically:

high dmg - varius debuffs - 2 forms of CC. The only thing missing from that class is nearsight.

 

[Azathrim]

I didnt say it destroys RvR. I said it was overpowered. Overpowered because OTHER casters spend 34 RA-points for a 28% reduction in melee-damage, and SM's dont pay anything for 74% reduction in melee-damage.

Other casters spend RSP for Concentration to rewin the interruption battle between casters. Bainshees get it for free with their taunt spell. Other casters gets it for free as well with insta spells.

Necros have long ranged high damage spells. They have 90% melee absortion and the ability to cast in melee (while meleeing).

Mids/Hibs spends gold on AF charges. Albs gets it for free on their bot.

You see, we can keep trying to find silly comparisions on how to "convert" abilities into other realms. Does that make us anymore clever? No, not really.

I could hold a long essay how damage (ranged) is a trade-off for being fragile in the game, and Warlock/BD/SM doesnt fall under this. Not gonna bother with that instead, explain how a 74% reduction in melee-damage is free, 34RA-points for 28% and you dont think thats unfair or imbalanced.

Archers have long range (actually, closest to being THE longest in the game. They are by far less fragile than their stealther brethern, the assassins.

The range/fragile trade-off is something of your mind. You will not find any recent and official Mythic documentation supporting this view. That makes your argument nothing than your ideas of how the game should be. Also known as void.

Say for example Bainshees get free Mastery of Magery 18. Would that be fair? Hell no would be insane. Yet Spiritmasters receive Physical Defense ~18. THAT is the unfair part about it. Which is imbalanced = overpowered.

Spiritmasters does not recieve PD18. They recieve an intercepting pet. A pet that can be seperated from the SM. Can be nuked down in 3 nukes.

In other word ... a pet that can be countered.

And you see, that's the entire point in this. An ability is overpowered if it cannot be countered (mind you, not limiting my personal definition of "overpowered" to just that) .

The SM pet can be countered.

How's that? If you cant see that the sm pet intercept rate is higher even when you play all three realms there's obviously something wrong.

I fail to follow you. Yes, I can see the pet intercept rate is "high". The majority of tests and the official documentation says 50%.. A single test done by a player with an agenda says 70%+. If you can statisticly prove it's more than 50% you have an argument. Otherwise it's just a whine.

And no, Puppets tests doesn't show show more than 50%. The logs are skewed, half of the relevant information was not taken into consideration and the sample rate is relatively small. If you really are interested in showing something here, perhaps PM Vilna the SM TL on the VN boards and have a few pointers on testing this.

I have an rr4 sm myself and the intercept rate is just retarded and i dont even have ml9 yet.

Had a test a while back with Osril (rr11 zerk) fully buffed.
Had jugg2 on the sm we tried it with at the time and the pet intercepted EVERY attack.
He didnt land a single blow on anything else than the pet.

If you're saying that this is balanced then ok, i dont really wanna know your definition of balance.

A single duel does hardly a test make. I once fought a Merc/Vampiir too. They used DT/Fumble debuff and I fumbled 100% of the attacks. That's simply overpowered. Did that little campfire story make us anymore clever? Nope. But, it's good for making whines. Just as your post showed.

 

[Pudzy]

rofl, can't even be arsed to quote, but I seriously think you need a break from doac, go outside, then in a couple of weeks, read your post, and you'll be where everyone else is Azathrim.

 

[naic]

A man should know when he's been beaten!

 

[Puppet]

I fail to follow you. Yes, I can see the pet intercept rate is "high". The majority of tests and the official documentation says 50%.. A single test done by a player with an agenda says 70%+. If you can statisticly prove it's more than 50% you have an argument. Otherwise it's just a whine.

Official documentation calls Nightshades strong spellcasters with stealth-abilities....

Also the fact I got an agenda doesnt make the pet suddenly intercept more. The logs are available to download from my webby in the original post.

A single duel does hardly a test make. I once fought a Merc/Vampiir too. They used DT/Fumble debuff and I fumbled 100% of the attacks. That's simply overpowered. Did that little campfire story make us anymore clever? Nope. But, it's good for making whines. Just as your post showed.

You sir are just grasping straws now. You are gonna compare a fight (which probably happened) to a sample of more then 500 swings? ........... Dont tell me you're actually comparing 5-6 swings (because a Merc/Vamp would kill you in 5-6 swings probably) to 500-600 swings...

 

[Azathrim]

Official documentation calls Nightshades strong spellcasters with stealth-abilities....

Also the fact I got an agenda doesnt make the pet suddenly intercept more. The logs are available to download from my webby in the original post.



You sir are just grasping straws now. You are gonna compare a fight (which probably happened) to a sample of more then 500 swings? ........... Dont tell me you're actually comparing 5-6 swings (because a Merc/Vamp would kill you in 5-6 swings probably) to 500-600 swings...

Your test was riddled with errors. A majority of the fight you used the ML9 pet. You had no control of distance between the SM and the pet.

Im no expert on testing. One can only assume the Mythic appointed person to test the class, The SM TL, knows how to test.

Really, if you want to show that the intercept rate is over 50% (which would be your only valid argument), then talk with Vilna and perform those tests in a controlled enviroment.

And no, Im not comparing a fight with a 500+ swing test. If you read it again, you will notice I was refering to Septina's campfire story - not your tests.

And lastly for Pudzy and Naic. If you have nothing better to do than flame, couldn't you do it in a PM directly to me? Then it would be much more easy to delete the non-sense unread and others didn't have to filter through it.

 

[Smackboy]

Say for example Bainshees get free Mastery of Magery 18. Would that be fair? Hell no would be insane. Yet Spiritmasters receive Physical Defense ~18. THAT is the unfair part about it. Which is imbalanced = overpowered.

You cant do anything about PD, but the pet can be CCed or taken out by other means. Saying 75% intercepts = 75% meele damage reduction all the time is false. When you exaggerate its just makes people more prone to try to shoot you down as a whiner in my experience. So lets stick to the facts obtained from the test where you showed that a pet intercepts roughly 3 out of 4 hits not that a SM is granted some super PD.

 

[Bag]

You are all just jealous :<

And can my ML9 pet really block a PA? Didnt know that just got ML9 :]

 

[Coldbeard]

As far as I know SM pets can intercept PA yus!

 

[Azathrim]

Yes it can. Just like Brittle Guards.