Working class lower IQ?

[BloodOmen]

Personally I think its a load of horse shit... being "smart" is not given to someone because they have money.. its earned by people who put the effort in, not those born with a silver spoon up their arse.

Discuss!




"Working classes 'have lower IQs'

Working class people have lower IQs than those from wealthy backgrounds and should not expect to win places at top universities, an academic has claimed.

Newcastle University's Bruce Charlton said fewer working class students at elite universities was the "natural outcome" of class IQ differences.

The reader in evolutionary psychiatry questioned drives to get more poorer students into top universities.

The government has criticised Dr Charlton's comments.


These arguments have a definite tone of 'people should know their place'
Higher Education Minister Bill Rammell

Dr Charlton said: "The UK Government has spent a great deal of time and effort in asserting that universities, especially Oxford and Cambridge, are unfairly excluding people from low social-class backgrounds and privileging those from higher social classes.

"Yet in all this debate a simple and vital fact has been missed: higher social classes have a significantly higher average IQ than lower social classes."

The fact that so few students from poor families get into Oxbridge is not down to "prejudice" but "meritocracy", he said.

Higher Education Minister Bill Rammell said: "These arguments have a definite tone of 'people should know their place'.

"There are young people with talent, ability and the potential to benefit from higher education who do not currently do so. That should concern us all."

Sally Hunt, general secretary of the University and College Union, said: "It should come as little surprise that people who enjoy a more privileged upbringing have a better start in life.

"It is up to all of us to ensure that not having access to the social and educational benefits that money provides is not a barrier to achieving one's full potential."

 

[Darthshearer]

It is earnt youre right.

What is classed as "working class" and "middle class" today?

 

[Aoami]

IQ doesn't really matter. I have an IQ of 160 but got crap grades at school because i wasn't really interested, and as a result didn't get a place at UCL like i wanted.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Maybe in the "biblical" sense they do, but in the smarts that matter, streetsmarts and such, they certainly don't.

Take any posh person(silverspoon-arse-born) and they won't survive in the streets for long. Take any worker, they'll make something out of a sh*thole filled with vomit.

 

[Bugz]

To an extent it is true.

Money can buy you intelligence and it isn't a shocker that those who are wealthier have higher average IQ's.

Secondly, its not just about effort either. I know someone got put in fuck all effort last year and still came out with 8 or 9 A*'s at GCSE and will probably manage straight A's for A-Level. He just has that natural intelligence.

It is rather sad if Oxford and Cambridge do have social exclusions however, as I know a lot of working class individuals who are much smarter than middle-class individuals.

 

[Maeloch]

Getting high scores in IQ tests only proves you're good at IQ tests...

 

[Hagralig]

IQ doesn't really matter. I have an IQ of 160 but got crap grades at school because i wasn't really interested, and as a result didn't get a place at UCL like i wanted.

You had an IQ of 160 and you couldn't even get into UCL? That's not even top 5 ... I don't think you are telling the truth about your IQ, if I'm being honest

 

[Himse]

You don't always have to be amazingly smart to be in a well paid job.

You have to work hard, get your head down, etc.

 

[Chronictank]

Believing anything in the Sun lowers your intelligence, the sun is a working class paper so...


note the above is a joke before you get excited

 

[Chronictank]

You had an IQ of 160 and you couldn't even get into UCL? That's not even top 5 ... I don't think you are telling the truth about your IQ, if I'm being honest

UCL is 4th

 

[Bugz]

UCL's position in the rankings depends on the subject you are studying.

@Himse: no - you don't have to be amazingly smart - but it damn well helps/speeds it up.

 

[Himse]

UCL's position in the rankings depends on the subject you are studying.

@Himse: no - you don't have to be amazingly smart - but it damn well helps/speeds it up.

Yes i know that, but, you can achieve good grades by working hard.

 

[Fiozscvp]

UCL's position in the rankings depends on the subject you are studying.

UCL isn't really that impressive. Imperial beats it on every field.

 

[liloe]

To an extent it is true.

Money can buy you intelligence and it isn't a shocker that those who are wealthier have higher average IQ's.

Secondly, its not just about effort either. I know someone got put in fuck all effort last year and still came out with 8 or 9 A*'s at GCSE and will probably manage straight A's for A-Level. He just has that natural intelligence.

It is rather sad if Oxford and Cambridge do have social exclusions however, as I know a lot of working class individuals who are much smarter than middle-class individuals.

Are we talking about IQ or knowledge here? The thing is, true itelligence can only be measured at a relatively young age cause afterwards, IQ tests turn into knowledge/experience tests.

If you grow up in a "poor" environment, you are less likely to be confronted with topics that widen your horizon or give you a deeper insight into some thing. Thus such a person will be classed dumb, although they just have less knowledge.
How many poor people talk objectively about politics, culture or similar topics around the table during their meals? Do they read the same books, watch the same TV programs?

You cannot buy intelligence, but you can buy knowledge, which will allow you to get to a better position, even if your IQ is only average.

 

[Chronictank]

UCL isn't really that impressive. Imperial beats it on every field.

Imperial is barely 3 points ahead (scores are out of 100)...
You also are misinformed,
Imperial is more than marginally worse for medicine and medical research
UCL is also the best uni in the uk for Art and Design for example
As bugs says it is entirely based on what subject you want to do

@bugs, i gave the result for overall as it was a general statement

 

[AngelHeal]

rich people usually are smart because:

whats important? allot!

how to get allot? be rich!

how to get rich? earn money!

How to earn money? find many ways to do so!

How to find many ways to do so? Be smart!

 

[Chronictank]

rich people usually are smart because:

whats important? allot!

how to get allot? be rich!

how to get rich? earn money!

How to earn money? find many ways to do so!

How to find many ways to do so? Be smart!

thats plain ridiculous
anyone who is motivated can do well, you dont need to be "rich" (although we are talking about working class vs, so middle class doesn't really count as rich )

The entire UK education system is tailored to give the underperforming the best chance possible, so anything less is down to plain laziness (bar some exceptional circumstances)
There is NO reason why you cant be a success in Britain in this day and age if you have the motivation to do it

 

[AngelHeal]

thats plain ridiculous
anyone who is motivated can do well, you dont need to be "rich" (although we are talking about working class vs, so middle class doesn't really count as rich )

The entire UK education system is tailored to give the underperforming the best chance possible, so anything less is down to plain laziness (bar some exceptional circumstances)
There is NO reason why you cant be a success in Britain in this day and age if you have the motivation to do it

...if you really think that I asume its that easy,,,,

 

[Chronictank]

...if you really think that I asume its that easy,,,,

How isn't it?

you start state funded school, move onto state funded secondary school and do your a-levels
In both you are given study support for books, travel, uniforms etc...
Free meals, travel, support if you are below a certain poverty line
After school classes at no cost, depending on the school you are in. If you are genuinely struggling there are additional classes which can be organised for you, usually in a local college.

If you fail school, you go to college here you can stay until you are 18-19 as a full time student so you remain on the above benefits, thre are vocational qualifications if you dont exam well or dont like the traditional approach.
They provide language and arithmatic classes if you failed your GCSE's, in addition to this there are basic IT qualifications built into most the ciriculums in college most colleges.

If you pass you get a low interest loan from the government with no pressure to pay it back until you finish your education

Now you tell me, how is it possible to fail if you really want to succeed instead of snide one liners

 

[Aoami]

You had an IQ of 160 and you couldn't even get into UCL? That's not even top 5 ... I don't think you are telling the truth about your IQ, if I'm being honest

Why?

I'm bright, but I was never academically inclined. I went to about 3 lessons a month at college because i prefered to go and get pissed.

 

[Succi]

generally, yes

however its only gonna be a weak correlation due to income being dependant on many other factors than IQ

 

[Laddey]

Yes i know that, but, you can achieve good grades by working hard.

Even me?!?

WTF is UCL?

 

[Chronictank]

Even me?!?

ofc, although i would go with what i was strong at

I dont personally like learning from books so tend to lean towards more practical learning

WTF is UCL?

University College London

 

[Laddey]

ofc, although i would go with what i was strong at

I dont personally like learning from books so tend to lean towards more practical learning



University College London

So you gotta be clever to get into that college?

Discrimination!

 

[Bugz]

Dori is talking crap anyway.

You can get the best grades possible and still get rejected from UCL.

 

[Lamp]

I've always interpreted "working class" to mean this: if you have to work to put bread on the table, you're working class. Why do you think its called "working" class ? Its very broad, not particularly accurate for modern times, but there you go.

These days, its all income based, artificial classifications "He's a C1", "She's a D3". What cack !

You can be born into poverty and yet have a huge IQ

 

[Iceforge]

Well, it is true that wealthy parents often get smarter kids.

IQ is not something one is born with, IQ is developed, more so in ones earlier years than in the later years, which means that wealthy parents who can purchase the right equipment and can afford the right things to help their kids develop, are giving their kids an extremely big advantage in the academic life.

It is not just because the parents are wealthy that automaticly gives quite smart children, it is because wealth gives opportunities, simple as that...

 

[Maeloch]

I've always interpreted "working class" to mean this: if you have to work to put bread on the table, you're working class. Why do you think its called "working" class ? Its very broad, not particularly accurate for modern times, but there you go.

If you shower before work, you're middle class - if you shower after, you're working.

It is a bit more complicated than just the money and manual labour - you got 'working class' plumbers and brickies earning v nice money, and a 'middle class' that includes legions of white-collar minimum wagers workign in telesales and crappy service industry jobs.

 

[Lamp]

It is a bit more complicated than just the money and manual labour - you got 'working class' plumbers and brickies earning v nice money, and a 'middle class' that includes legions of white-collar minimum wagers workign in telesales and crappy service industry jobs.

Very true. The class structure made sense 60 years ago. It was much easier to classify people into 3 classes. Nowadays, as you say, the boundaries are blurred making the whole concept of "class" practically redundant and meaningless.

 

[Mey]

People from Lower social class families have a "lower IQ" (I dislike the definition of IQ but meh' i'll use it for this purpose) than people from Higher social class families because they have less opportunity to learn.

Generally speaking they will attend poorer schools in impoverised areas, where many of the children in class simply will not be interested in learning and will disrupt lessons and teaching. Consquently grades drop and "IQ is lower".