War on drugs working?

[tierk]

Just read this article from the Independent Newspaper, which highlights the direct effect of the war on drugs and the way this has had a directly opposite result to what the intended aim of the war on drugs was supposed to have.

Crackdowns on drug dealers led to rise in violent crime, study finds - Crime, UK - The Independent

The article makes clear that instead of reducing, violence and supplies as was expected it has created a situation where the business of drugs - valued at over $200 billion a year - is ever more lucrative and therefore more attractive, financially, for criminals.

I personally believe that the trade in drugs should be made legal and controlled by governments so that it is taken out of the hands of the criminals, taxed and accounted for.

It is laughable in this day and age were we talk about freedom and rights and democracy to still hold on to the belief that people are still incapable of deciding for themselves if they want to take drugs - whatever drug it is.

The idea that you can be locked up for using drugs in this day and age is just nonsense and as a deterrent clearly not working as people are still prepared to run the risk of getting locked up or even worse poisoned, in some cases to get high.

If you read the various sites now available on the web that deal with conspiracies and “Black Ops” you can read massive amounts of information – true or false at readers discretion – that points at collusion between drug dealers and the secret services of various countries that have a vested interest in keeping the drugs trade illegal. The reasons for this collusion should be clear to most; however, I have included a link for a site that explains it in more detail.
Untitled Document

Is this a case for or against legalizing the drugs trade, as the first article implies or not your thoughts and opinions are welcome?

 

[Sparx]

Its definately not working. I think most drugs should be legalised definately not smack etc as thats just too dangerous

Portugal have it right, legalise everything and make it not a criminal conviction but a health one

 

[Zede]

the untitled document is an interesting read

 

[tierk]

the untitled document is an interesting read

The internet is littered with lots of articles like this. This was just one i had just googled for the thread.

 

[Job]

I could look at this from a thousand angles, but the simple fact is drugs and society don't mix.
Nothing new here, drugs have been legal in the past, in fact most of them have only been illegal in the past 100 years.

We can just about contain alchohol, imagine if night clubs were selling cocaine, ecstasy, speed etc along side the beer.
Half the country would be in rehab, society as a whole just isn't ready for legalised turbocharging of life.
Cocaine for exams, cocaine for that job interview, cocaine for that first date.
OK it goes on now, but not everybody.
I'm driving to Aberdeen tonight and I'm fucked, drop a bag of speed.

Actually after writing this I'm thinking maybe it would be a good idea.

 

[megadave]

it's a problem because the law makes it one,basically.

 

[ECA]

I personally believe that the trade in drugs should be made legal and controlled by governments so that it is taken out of the hands of the criminals, taxed and accounted for.

Duh.

Look at what happened with Prohibition of Alcohol in America.

If the government becomes the drug supply monopoly it puts puts all the criminals out of business, reduces violent crime, burglary, overdoses, deaths ( due to being cut with shit ), and increases good health outcomes/rehabilitation etc.

The problem is - it's so very easy to attack a political opponent who advocates a sane drug policy because the mass of moronic "THINK OF TEH CHILDREN" voters.

 

[Ezteq]

no its not working, I got pillaged by two masked paracetamol and an armed karvol capsual last night while watching telly.

those bastards took everything!!

 

[Kagato]

I think all but the worste drugs could should be legalised.

It's already been proven that Ecstasy is less dangerous then alcohol.

Who would you rather meet, a group of guys violently drunk and abusive or a bunch of guys who are just happy and want to hug everyone?

E only become dangerous when it became illegal and started getting mixed with other shit. In it's pure form it's harmless and only had 3 related deaths back in the 80ies before it was made illegal, and 2 of those were not due to the drug but due to the people getting dehydrated and not realising. That is a lower death rate then is caused by common over the counter prescription drugs!

If it was legal it could be garunteed pure and safe and taxable!

I think it is morally wrong to ban a substance just because it artifcially makes you feel good, which is the case with E, when theres no valid medical reason to ban it.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well,m my pet complaint is that "Where is this country of Drugstania and when did we declare war on it?"

that silly notion aside;

Drugs work(for drug traffic that is) because they are illegal.

Smokes are legal, yet more and more young kids choose not to smoke.

When you tell any young generation, or even older ones, that you can't do x, they will do x, or other such narcotic.

While i myself stay out of any drug(that is, named as drug) out of personal choice, i still think legalising and controlling it would work a lot better then saying "You can't do this!". Would bring taxes, would make people stop illegal activities, would drop some court times(for more important stuff), would free some jail-space etc.

Even weed, don't touch the stuff, don't really consider it any different from smokes and it's damn hard to argue with this;

YouTube- Katt Williams - Weed

 

[Zede]

I think all but the worste drugs could should be legalised.

It's already been proven that Ecstasy is less dangerous then alcohol.

Who would you rather meet, a group of guys violently drunk and abusive or a bunch of guys who are just happy and want to hug everyone?

E only become dangerous when it became illegal and started getting mixed with other shit. In it's pure form it's harmless and only had 3 related deaths back in the 80ies before it was made illegal, and 2 of those were not due to the drug but due to the people getting dehydrated and not realising. That is a lower death rate then is caused by common over the counter prescription drugs!

If it was legal it could be garunteed pure and safe and taxable!

I think it is morally wrong to ban a substance just because it artifcially makes you feel good, which is the case with E, when theres no valid medical reason to ban it.

well said ! Very liberal some what lefty tendancies there ! That soon be reborn tin hat wearer would well, be ashamed

 

[Raven]

No its not working and it never will. Prohibition has never worked.

 

[Marc]

I think all but the worste drugs could should be legalised.

It's already been proven that Ecstasy is less dangerous then alcohol.

Who would you rather meet, a group of guys violently drunk and abusive or a bunch of guys who are just happy and want to hug everyone?

E only become dangerous when it became illegal and started getting mixed with other shit. In it's pure form it's harmless and only had 3 related deaths back in the 80ies before it was made illegal, and 2 of those were not due to the drug but due to the people getting dehydrated and not realising. That is a lower death rate then is caused by common over the counter prescription drugs!

If it was legal it could be garunteed pure and safe and taxable!

I think it is morally wrong to ban a substance just because it artifcially makes you feel good, which is the case with E, when theres no valid medical reason to ban it.

Ive been around drugs for 15 years. I dont care what the studies say, I know countless people who have ended up in ward 28 (nut house) at my local hospital through soft drug abuse. Aphetamine > Weed > Lsd > Exstasy is the food chain for danger through my experience. It was getting to a stage in the mid to late 90s when people you regularly saw at farm and warehouse raves werent turning up and when you asked where they were, they were too paranoid or had been sectioned. I lost a very close friend to exstasy abuse. I actually saw him a couple of months ago. He had escaped from the hospital and the shit he was comming out with was scary. I mean, he honestly thought he was jesus and it was just incomprehensible babble he was comming out with. Of course, there is no way to prove it is down to substance abuse, but substance abuse is the common thing between all these people.

Drugs will never be legalised and rightly so.

 

[Embattle]

I was going to type something a bit longer but can't be arsed...some of the comments here really aren't that well thought out when it comes to the large scheme of things.

 

[megadave]

Well you obviously can't just legalise a lot of drugs becaue they're always going to be harmful. Others would work though, in moderation ofcourse.

If someone's average night out consists of taking loads of drugs ona regular basis over a long period of time, there's not much you can expect.

 

[Zede]

Ive been around drugs for 15 years. I dont care what the studies say, I know countless people who have ended up in ward 28 (nut house) at my local hospital through soft drug abuse. Aphetamine > Weed > Lsd > Exstasy is the food chain for danger through my experience. It was getting to a stage in the mid to late 90s when people you regularly saw at farm and warehouse raves werent turning up and when you asked where they were, they were too paranoid or had been sectioned. I lost a very close friend to exstasy abuse. I actually saw him a couple of months ago. He had escaped from the hospital and the shit he was comming out with was scary. I mean, he honestly thought he was jesus and it was just incomprehensible babble he was comming out with. Of course, there is no way to prove it is down to substance abuse, but substance abuse is the common thing between all these people.

Drugs will never be legalised and rightly so.

Ive been around drugs for 23 years. I dont care what the studies say, i know absolutely no one who has ended up in ward 28(nut house) at my local hospital. Aphetamine > Weed > Lsd > Exstasy is the food chain for fun through my experience. It was getting to a stage in the early to mid 90s when people you regularly saw at farm and warehouse raves werent turning up and when you asked where they were, they were having to much fun to reply. I gained very close friends to exstasy use. I saw one of said friends a couple of months ago. He had a great job, wife & 2 kids and the shit he was comming out with with regard to how happy he was was scary. I mean, he honestly thought he could be the managing director of the company he worked for and it was just incomprehensible babble he was comming out with. Of course, there is no way to prove it is down to substance use, but substance use is the common thing between all these people.

Illegal drugs will be legalised and rightly so

 

[megadave]

I know one guy who turned batshit crazy after taking a lot of drugs, but he was pretty odd to begin with. He's got a girlfriend now and she's proper sorted him out, you can barely tell he's a mentalist these days.

 

[Marc]

Ive been around drugs for 23 years. I dont care what the studies say, i know absolutely no one who has ended up in ward 28(nut house) at my local hospital. Aphetamine > Weed > Lsd > Exstasy is the food chain for fun through my experience. It was getting to a stage in the early to mid 90s when people you regularly saw at farm and warehouse raves werent turning up and when you asked where they were, they were having to much fun to reply. I gained very close friends to exstasy use. I saw one of said friends a couple of months ago. He had a great job, wife & 2 kids and the shit he was comming out with with regard to how happy he was was scary. I mean, he honestly thought he could be the managing director of the company he worked for and it was just incomprehensible babble he was comming out with. Of course, there is no way to prove it is down to substance use, but substance use is the common thing between all these people.

Illegal drugs will be legalised and rightly so

Well good for you. There is always 2 sides to each story and people you know have been fine. Im not saying everyone turns into a lunatic. But I know for a fact that drugs can fuck you up.

 

[Raven]

I have known people to have their lives destroyed by drugs and I have known people to suffer no long lasting effects. I know far more people who have ruined their lives through alcohol though. I would not like to see all drugs legalised, pretty much only cannabis really.

I smoke weed every now and again and it doesn't really affect me. Like anything if you abuse it then you are asking for trouble. Even if it was legal I doubt I would smoke it that often, its nice to have the odd joint after a long days work or when out in the woods but I can't really see the attraction of getting wasted. I am like that with alcohol though, I rarely get drunk and usually switch to soft drinks after 6 pints or so.

 

[Kagato]

Blaming drugs for turning paranoid, dumb, unemployable or simply a nut job is the easy option.

Sad fact is people with addictive personalities or underlying problems would still end up as one of those things sooner or later with or without the help of drugs.

It's exactly the same with Alcoholics, why should the majority have to suffer just because a few people don't know when enough is enough?

The alcohol is not the problem, the person drinking it is.

 

[Zenith]

As many have pointed out, drugs and psychological disorders are correlated, but which one is the causal factor? Read alot about it in psych classes, but havent got deep enough to come to an answer.

I would wager to say people have a predeposition for psychological disorders and the stress of alcohol, drugs or environmental factors coming with these substances are the "activating" factor for the disorders.

I also think its not really the case to make any drug "legal". Drugs are not legal in Portugal, its "decriminalised". If you get found out using/abusing drugs, you get to meet a social helper, a therapist etc etc. Was a long time I read about this though, might have gotten the facts wrong.

AFAIK, the druguse got more transparent and all drugs except weed showed a reduction in usage.

 

[Exioce]

Well you obviously can't just legalise a lot of drugs because they're always going to be harmful.

I think most drugs should be legalised definately not smack etc as thats just too dangerous

What about individual liberty?

It can be argued that there are some vulnerable people who need protecting from themselves, but what about the rest of us? What right does the state have to determine what we can and can't do with our own bodies?

The whole concept of "illegal drugs" offends me.

 

[Sparx]

im not sure what you meant by quoting me but ill answer

i included smack for example which shouldnt be legalised due to it not only affecting the user but other people too. Its true that smack heads do rob and hurt other people to get monies and a fix, people taking pills dont mug old grannies just so they can buy a pill at the weekend

 

[Exioce]

Well if somebody commits a crime like robbery or assault then of course they should be punished.
But a preventative measure like banning a drug goes too far in my view.

Others have already made the point that the high price of drugs, which forces addicts into criminal acts, is a result of the drugs' illegality.

 

[Sparx]

If only it was that simple, as an addict you are forced into doing things you wouldnt normally want to do, but have to do it

 

[old.Tohtori]

If only it was that simple, as an addict you are forced into doing things you wouldnt normally want to do, but have to do it

Then again, you might want to do it also as an addict.

Some say, for example, that wow is an addiction, but someone can still have fun and want to do it.

I'd say addiction is there wwhen it interferes with family, friends, health and basic living needs(water, food, roof).

Otherwise people should be able to do whatever the f*ck they want, ofcourse without harming others.

 

[Sparx]

What i mean is people dont instantly want to rob people to fund their habit but have to

 

[Genedril]

Well good for you. There is always 2 sides to each story and people you know have been fine. Im not saying everyone turns into a lunatic. But I know for a fact that drugs can fuck you up.

Hate to nit pick but I'd say that what you know for a fact is that some people you know who are fucked up took drugs.

Unless you are some sort of chemist bloke who did before and after tests on your subjects of course and had proper control specimens (though that is, of course, impossible when it comes to people).

 

[Tuthmes]

In The Netherlands we have a problem with weed atm. It's not legal, but everyone knows it basically is (it's called "gedogen" in Dutch). Basically you can have a few grams on you, but not more then that. Shop's that sell it are legal, but arent allowed to have too much of the stuff inside (couple of hundred grams I think).
This raises a problem ofcourse. First, if you have a shop, you need to have enough supplies to be able to meet everyones demand. Secondly, basically supply'ing the shop is illegal. Aswell as growing large amounts of weed (which you will need todo to keep up with the demand).

Honestly if you'd legalize it the Dutch people won't smoke more weed. Then again if you don't control it, you have every Europian comming in from far away to buy the stuff.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Hate to nit pick but I'd say that what you know for a fact is that some people you know who are fucked up took drugs.

Unless you are some sort of chemist bloke who did before and after tests on your subjects of course and had proper control specimens (though that is, of course, impossible when it comes to people).

Then again, this would have to be put in a wider spectrum.

Did he kill those people because he had a gun?

Did he cheat on his wife because it was possible?

Etc.

It's safe to say that some people can handle drugs, some can't.

Some people can make a choice, some get controlled into a choice.

But it's all irrelevant from a neutral point of view;

If drugs were legal, they would be better controlled. Addicts are always addicts.

As far as theories go, that would be the most logical one.

If someone wants to oppose it, i'm glad to hear it.