News War with Russia

old.Osy

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A heart for lots of death there @Wij? To feel sad for human death - especially death caused by a fucking idiotic war - seems more appropriate, no?

Anyway:

Conscription squads :(

I think everyone understands some russian soldiers's predicament, but the reality is most still support the regime and the war. If they wouldn't, the army and the front would collapse. It doesn't, therefor....
 

Scouse

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most still support the regime and the war. If they wouldn't, the army and the front would collapse.
You write that sentence, in a post about conscription squads?

On the Russian side:

From next January I can be called up to serve and sent to Ukraine. I don't want to join the army, I don't want to take part in this war and die for someone else's goals

There's morons on both sides of the equation (for moron read: anyone who volunteers for the armed services - people who sign up to kill other people just because someone else tells them to). If they run out of volunteers then that sucks.

Of course, that means Russia wins by virtue of it's size (I've said since Day 1 - Russia comes out of this with some land, 100% - and that's still going to happen (US and UK analysis at the start of the war said precisely that too)) - but that's irrelevant to the point I'm making. And that point is people are being rounded up and forced into the front lines - people who don't want to fight. On both sides.

That's not OK.
 

Raven

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Embattle

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I don't think conscription should be required when you are talking about fighting for your own country in your country, but clearly that isn't enough.
 

BloodOmen

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Scouse

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I don't think conscription should be required when you are talking about fighting for your own country in your country, but clearly that isn't enough.
I wouldn't give two shits if France invaded and said "we're running Britain now".

I'd go "fair enough - the shower of shit we've got at the moment isn't any better than you and I'm certainly not going to risk my life or try to kill people to stop you. Talk to the super-rich, they're the ones who care".
 

Scouse

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They can surrender, if they don't understand that they are in an unjust war, they are "the bad guys" and fuck'um.
Don't be disingenouous. You know you're talking shit.

You can't surrender if your "team" will shoot you in the back if you try. Or if your family gets fucked over by your government if you do.

Conscription is peons being forced to lay down their lives for shit they don't believe in/wouldn't ever do. And for what? Just so some humans can carry on being moronic, warmongering arseholes.
 

Wij

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A heart for lots of death there @Wij? To feel sad for human death - especially death caused by a fucking idiotic war - seems more appropriate, no?
Russians killed equals fewer Ukrainians killed. Ukraine didn't start this so I'd rather Russians died than Ukrainians. Simple.
 

Scouse

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Russians killed equals fewer Ukrainians killed.
Not really sure that's actually the case when one side has 144 million people and another has only 38 million people.

It just means that the overall casualties will be heavier. And that's something to be sad about.
 

Wij

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Not really sure that's actually the case when one side has 144 million people and another has only 38 million people.

It just means that the overall casualties will be heavier. And that's something to be sad about.
Nope. It's definitely the case. Those orcs will just be shooting and raping Ukrainians if left alive inside Ukraine. Keep it going long enough and Russia will give up. Are they going to send their elderly out to fight once they run out of young men and prisoners? The population difference won't help if Ukraine has enough modern weaponry provided by the west to keep their K/D ratio high. Give them the right weapons and stop tying their hands behind their backs with stupid redlines and they can kill the orcs before they even cross the border.

Ukraine winning ends the war. Crying over cunts who can't stick inside their own country won't.
 

DaGaffer

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Don't be disingenouous. You know you're talking shit.

You can't surrender if your "team" will shoot you in the back if you try. Or if your family gets fucked over by your government if you do.

Conscription is peons being forced to lay down their lives for shit they don't believe in/wouldn't ever do. And for what? Just so some humans can carry on being moronic, warmongering arseholes.

And yet there are literally hundreds of thousands of Russian men of conscription age hiding out all over the world. I was in Istanbul last summer and you couldn't move for Ivans. They're as far away as Indonesia.
 

Scouse

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And yet there are literally hundreds of thousands of Russian men of conscription age hiding out all over the world. I was in Istanbul last summer and you couldn't move for Ivans. They're as far away as Indonesia.
Yep indeed. And good on 'em. I suspect the number of people who would want to die for Russia are vastly outnumbered by those who don't. And I suspect that's exactly the same for Ukraine. But they get conscripted, regardless of what they think or feel.

Both things can be true you know. You know the Russians in a line, pick up the weapon of the guy who died in front of you stories, with a boss at the back who'll put a bullet in your head if you don't as well as I do.

We all want Russia to lose the war they started. But pretending Russians are 'orcs', or indeed some different sort of animal from us, is just the sort of thinking that enables humans to act the way we do.

The loss of life is regrettable.
 

DaGaffer

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Yep indeed. And good on 'em. I suspect the number of people who would want to die for Russia are vastly outnumbered by those who don't. And I suspect that's exactly the same for Ukraine. But they get conscripted, regardless of what they think or feel.

Both things can be true you know. You know the Russians in a line, pick up the weapon of the guy who died in front of you stories, with a boss at the back who'll put a bullet in your head if you don't as well as I do.

We all want Russia to lose the war they started. But pretending Russians are 'orcs', or indeed some different sort of animal from us, is just the sort of thinking that enables humans to act the way we do.

The loss of life is regrettable.

Here's a difference between Ukraine and Russia; Russia conscripts the poor and rural first before it started to dig into Moscow and St. Petersburg. Ukraine actually avoided conscripting young men as much as possible for the first two years of the war because they didn't want to create a generation of orphans and they wanted to minimise the already significant demographic crisis facing Ukraine even before the war. Putin gives no fucks about the same demographic crisis because he's going to fill the hole with conquered peoples. Ukraine has a moral and intellectual worth ten times that of Russia.

The loss of all life is regrettable, but some lives are worth more than others because the Russians are orcs for letting this happen and more importantly, letting it continue to happen. They've killed their bad leaders before, they need to remember how.
 

Scouse

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the Russians are orcs for letting this happen and more importantly, letting it continue to happen. They've killed their bad leaders before, they need to remember how.
Nah, they're just Russians under a different media scape. Governments have gotten better at controlling the narrative since the Bolshevik Revolution.

As much as we'd love 'em to rise up and kill Putin, we'd also love for the North Korean's to rise up and kill their glorious leader. And maybe the Yanks to kill Trump next time round?

Basically, we'd all love a load of people to lay down their lives to kill leaders we don't like. As long as it's them laying down their lives eh?

They're not orcs. They're just us in different circumstances. Same animal. Same neural pathways. Different environment.
 

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