News War with Russia

Wij

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Finland has a border with Russia and Russia threatened all kinds if Finland ever joined. Empty threats. Russia hasn't done anything.

If we can provide enough weapons for Ukraine to kick Russia out then Ukraine can join without a problem. Big if obviously.
 
Scouse

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DaGaffer said:
I think the "no NATO" ship has sailed for Russia. There's zero appetite to give Russia any of their objectives.
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Yeah, but I bet we ain't got any appetite to pile in with our own tanks to protect Ukraine. We'll probably want a buffer.
 
Scouse

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Wij said:
If we can provide enough weapons for Ukraine to kick Russia out then Ukraine can join without a problem. Big if obviously.
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I hope we do. But I don't share your optimism.

I think, if this ends, nobody is going to feel good.
 
Wij

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Scouse said:
Yeah, but I bet we ain't got any appetite to pile in with our own tanks to protect Ukraine. We'll probably want a buffer.
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You could say the same about Finland. And the Baltic states for that matter. But, when they are in NATO, Russia doesn't invade, so there's no need for a buffer. What country would you tell has to be a 'buffer' anyway? Kind of a shitty thing to do.
 
Scouse

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Wij said:
What country would you tell has to be a 'buffer' anyway? Kind of a shitty thing to do.
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Agree. But I bet we do the shitty thing.

Frankly, we're all about doing shitty things :(
 
Wij

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Scouse said:
Agree. But I bet we do the shitty thing.

Frankly, we're all about doing shitty things :(
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It depends on who the US president is at the time. If it's a Democrat or a traditional Republican they would absolutely want Ukraine to join if Russia is no longer occupying. If it's Trump or some other Putin-strummer then they won't.

Obviously, kicking Russia out first is still a big if.
 
Scouse

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Wij said:
Obviously, kicking Russia out first is still a big if.
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Yep. But that's why I said I bet nobody wins here.

Russia get a bit of land, but not what they want. We don't want 'em to have anything but end up 'agreeing to disagree' (quiet aquiesance). Ukraine is fecked off and feels let down by it's allies.
 
Embattle

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As said previously they should get nothing of Ukraine....no ifs, no buts and no coconuts.
 
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Wij

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Scouse said:
70,000 dead, the rest injured according to the UK estimates (although I don't know how they get to the 90% figure, Russia has a big old army).

Ukrainian casualties are supposedly equal (deaths).

Civilian casualties in 2023 are 9,614 according to the UN.

Still. Israel is managing to top those civilian casualties quite amazingly in but a couple of months.
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We've been through this. The figures you are giving count all Gazan deaths as civilians. Some are, some aren't.

70,000 + 9,614 > 16,000. But it doesn't matter.

It's a different war. The point was about this war, not that one.
 
Wij

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And how they got to the 90% figure isn't tricky. It's explained in articles such as Reuters. They had just over 300,000 in the Russian military at the start of the war. If they hadn't conscripted a load more only about 10% would still be able to serve.
 
Scouse

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Wij said:
And how they got to the 90% figure isn't tricky. It's explained in articles such as Reuters. They had just over 300,000 in the Russian military at the start of the war. If they hadn't conscripted a load more only about 10% would still be able to serve.
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I dispute the numbers and therefore the veracity of the claim. Looks like a propaganda piece tbh.

They had (apparently) 1.15 million military personnel (actual troops) at the start of the war and 2 million reservists.

And I know you want to focus on this war, but it appears that other wars are fair game to bring up in the gaza thread for comparison, so gaza's fair game here. (And I dispute your figures/assessment there too, but I'm in a meeting so cba again) :)
 
Wij

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TdC

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indeed. I heard about the yacht meme and was like "ya right". had doubts before I even learned of the "source"
 
Scouse

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I, on the other hand, think it's incredibly unlikely. But not impossible. Weirder shit has happened.

99.99% sure it's utter bullshit. And I'm not exaggerating the 9's. It's just, I kind of don't believe anything fully any more. Including "fact checks" by the media. (And I absolutely rate the "MSM" as the cool kids like to call it, as arbiters of fact and truth over anything "social" - I mean, social media is nothing better than chinese whispers by definition, right?)

Edit: To extra qualify that: Owt posted primarily on twitter = shite ;)
 
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Tom

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I tend to view such support as "give us building contracts and decent trade agreements once this is all over". Nothing wrong with that but I think that, and the geopolitical impact of allowing Dobby to invade more countries, is more convincing to them than any humanitarian concerns.
 
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