UKIP

[Scouse]

Speaking of distancing, let's leave out the advising people to kill themselves posts pls.

Suck a tailpipe you freaky dutch racist

 

[TdC]

I can't : lent the GT to my tame lezza o_0 Also, she just texted me that she may have a speeding ticket already pfff :-/

 

[TdC]

on the bright side, the people I voted for (Pirates) may actually end up with 5 seats in Europe according to exit polls. 1.1% votes (exit polls again) for the NL pirates prognosis, sadly not enough to get in. Still, all the Pirates together may have seats, and also the real tally is publicised on Sunday it seems, so we shall see.

 

[DaGaffer]

Actually, mentioning Scottish Independence has reminded me of something which tickled me - no, not the prospect of Scotland ever becoming independent, and no, not Salmond's calculations on how it's all going to be paid for, or his assertion that the EU will welcome Scotland with open arms and be happy to take them, no not any of that. It's just the supposed irrelevance of UKIP to Scotland as UKIP are a bunch of nasty racists, when the entire Indepedence movement, seems to be based on an irrational hatred of the English.

How's that any different to UKIP's message?

Its not, except the SNP are lefty xenophobes and UKIP are righty xenophobes. One of the most interesting things I've read about UKIP in recent days is they scored more highly in opinion polls in Scotland than England...

 

[Raven]

on the bright side, the people I voted for (Pirates) may actually end up with 5 seats in Europe according to exit polls. 1.1% votes (exit polls again) for the NL pirates prognosis, sadly not enough to get in. Still, all the Pirates together may have seats, and also the real tally is publicised on Sunday it seems, so we shall see.

Someone I used to play WoW with is quite high up the German Pirate food chain - though I don't think they are doing all that well unfortunately.

 

[miri]

Someone I used to play WoW with is quite high up the German Pirate food chain - though I don't think they are doing all that well unfortunately.

If their foreign policy is mostly centred around the proliferation of Chinese gold farmers then perhaps that's their roadblock to success.

 

[BloodOmen]

Hopefully the other parties wake the fuck up now and realise they're pissing people off that much they're willing to vote for UKIP who basically stand for

() Withdrawl from the EU. But remain in the EEU like Norway and Switzerland - Sure the EU have already said it isn't going to happen.

() Flat tax of 25 to 35% - So the poor pay more and the rich pay less.

() Restrictions on Immigration

() Increase in defence spending, including a new nuclear missile deterrant - Why bother when we can buy them from the U.S.

() Against Gay Marriage - In 2014 people really care about this still?

() Double Prison Places

() £77bn worth of cuts to public expenditure

() Against 3rd runway at Heathrow and scrapping of HS2

() Return of smoking and fox hunting

() Re-legalisation of Handguns

() Describes benefit claimants as “a parasitic underclass of scroungers". Unpaid working for those on Housing and Council Tax benefit, reduction in Sick Pay to JSA levels and abolishment of childcare tax credits for those in work.


- who the fuck would vote for that? really? a large majority of the votes UKIP got will have been protest votes more than serious votes, just not sure how many. I'm fine with the out of the EU part but the rest is just mental, the handguns especially... hasn't the UK learned that legalised firearms is a bad idea from the USA.

 

[Moriath]

I didn't vote for anyone. But the last point is good. Most people can be I gainful employment of some shape or form.. Disabled or sick you can make some contribution.

I come to this from the point of having aspergers and managing to use my pro points to the benefit to out weigh the negatives. If your home bound you still should be able to contribute via internet and phone etc. if not that commerce lack of vision.

There is a small percent that can't make any contribution and they should be supported. But just havering agrophobia or anxiety doesn't mean you can contribute. I have been so house bound that I felt like throwing up if I left my front door but I still maintained my job and contributed to society.

There are a lot of people out there that need to wake up and smell the roses. And cut backs on benefits are needed for that to happen.

 

[throdgrain]

Hopefully the other parties wake the fuck up now and realise they're pissing people off that much they're willing to vote for UKIP who basically stand for

() Withdrawl from the EU. But remain in the EEU like Norway and Switzerland - Sure the EU have already said it isn't going to happen.

() Flat tax of 25 to 35% - So the poor pay more and the rich pay less.

() Restrictions on Immigration

() Increase in defence spending, including a new nuclear missile deterrant - Why bother when we can buy them from the U.S.

() Against Gay Marriage - In 2014 people really care about this still?

() Double Prison Places

() £77bn worth of cuts to public expenditure

() Against 3rd runway at Heathrow and scrapping of HS2

() Return of smoking and fox hunting

() Re-legalisation of Handguns

() Describes benefit claimants as “a parasitic underclass of scroungers". Unpaid working for those on Housing and Council Tax benefit, reduction in Sick Pay to JSA levels and abolishment of childcare tax credits for those in work.


- who the fuck would vote for that? really? a large majority of the votes UKIP got will have been protest votes more than serious votes, just not sure how many. I'm fine with the out of the EU part but the rest is just mental, the handguns especially... hasn't the UK learned that legalised firearms is a bad idea from the USA.

I would vote for pretty much ALL of that.

 

[Raven]

Hopefully the other parties wake the fuck up now and realise they're pissing people off that much they're willing to vote for UKIP who basically stand for

() Withdrawl from the EU. But remain in the EEU like Norway and Switzerland - Sure the EU have already said it isn't going to happen.

() Flat tax of 25 to 35% - So the poor pay more and the rich pay less.

() Restrictions on Immigration

() Increase in defence spending, including a new nuclear missile deterrant - Why bother when we can buy them from the U.S.

() Against Gay Marriage - In 2014 people really care about this still?

() Double Prison Places

() £77bn worth of cuts to public expenditure

() Against 3rd runway at Heathrow and scrapping of HS2

() Return of smoking and fox hunting

() Re-legalisation of Handguns

() Describes benefit claimants as “a parasitic underclass of scroungers". Unpaid working for those on Housing and Council Tax benefit, reduction in Sick Pay to JSA levels and abolishment of childcare tax credits for those in work.


- who the fuck would vote for that? really? a large majority of the votes UKIP got will have been protest votes more than serious votes, just not sure how many. I'm fine with the out of the EU part but the rest is just mental, the handguns especially... hasn't the UK learned that legalised firearms is a bad idea from the USA.

You have to realise that this was not the general election. I certainly don't want UKIP to get any power in real government and will probably either spoil my ballot or vote Tory. It would be an unmitigated disaster if Labour get in, which I think they will do simply because the vote will be split between Tory and UKIP

 

[throdgrain]

I also will probably vote Conservative at the general election, not because I want to as much as because Labour getting back in must be stopped. For generations hopefully.

 

[Job]

A vote for UKIP is an actual vote for change, the main parties are directly changing their policies in response...not a 'Let's make a sound bite' sort of way, but in a 'holy fuk, we're losing votes bigtime' sorta way.

These are the most interesting political times in the last 40 years.

 

[DaGaffer]

A vote for UKIP is an actual vote for change, the main parties are directly changing their policies in response...not a 'Let's make a sound bite' sort of way, but in a 'holy fuk, we're losing votes bigtime' sorta way.

These are the most interesting political times in the last 40 years.

I believe "may you live in interesting times" is a Chinese curse.

 

[Job]

Oh yes, this could go anywhere, though fizzling out is the most likely outcome.

 

[BloodOmen]

I would vote for pretty much ALL of that.

so you're against gay marriage and you want firearms to be flooding the streets? because a few years down the line that's exactly what would happen, knife crime would turn to gun crime.

 

[Raven]

No it wouldn't. There are thousands of illegal guns in circulation already. If a scumbag wants to get a gun for shooting other scumbags then they can already.

 

[DaGaffer]

No it wouldn't. There are thousands of illegal guns in circulation already. If a scumbag wants to get a gun for shooting other scumbags then they can already.

Eerrr...not so much. If that were true the stats would bear that out. In reality gun crime in the UK is as statistically near zero as you're likely to get. Gun crime per capita is WAY higher here in Ireland despite a much smaller population (21 in 2012 - pop 5m, vs. 41 in England & Wales, pop 56m), mainly because guns are just easier to get (the propensity for scumbag on scumbag violence is the same). Like it or not, tight gun regulation in the UK works.

 

[throdgrain]

so you're against gay marriage and you want firearms to be flooding the streets? because a few years down the line that's exactly what would happen, knife crime would turn to gun crime.

Really? Odd that. They are talking about returning to licensed hand guns, exactly the same as it was for decades before the knee jerk legislation after Dunblane. And I suppose you're aware that gun crime has rocketed in this country since the ban are you? No, didn't think so. It's amazing that, because handguns are illegal now aren't they? How can it be happening?

The return of licensed handgun ownership would be a great thing. It would not mean firearms flooding the streets.

 

[Gwadien]

Really? Odd that. They are talking about returning to licensed hand guns, exactly the same as it was for decades before the knee jerk legislation after Dunblane. And I suppose you're aware that gun crime has rocketed in this country since the ban are you? No, didn't think so. It's amazing that, because handguns are illegal now aren't they? How can it be happening?

The return of licensed handgun ownership would be a great thing. It would not mean firearms flooding the streets.

Coming from a person who owns guns.

Not a bias point of view, at all.

Why don't you just move to America?

 

[DaGaffer]

Really? Odd that. They are talking about returning to licensed hand guns, exactly the same as it was for decades before the knee jerk legislation after Dunblane. And I suppose you're aware that gun crime has rocketed in this country since the ban are you? No, didn't think so. It's amazing that, because handguns are illegal now aren't they? How can it be happening?

The return of licensed handgun ownership would be a great thing. It would not mean firearms flooding the streets.

Except of course it hasn't. Gun crime in England and Wales is one of the lowest per capita in the world. Only about 7 countries in the whole world have lower rates, and two of them are actually probably worse because of the way they report.

 

[throdgrain]

Except of course it hasn't. Gun crime in England and Wales is one of the lowest per capita in the world. Only about 7 countries in the whole world have lower rates, and two of them are actually probably worse because of the way they report.

Except of course it has, it's much higher now than it was pre- 1996.

 

[Gwadien]

Except of course it has, it's much higher now than it was pre- 1996.

Okay, Throd, Government says, okay, you can have a gun.

What are you going to do with the gun?

What is the point?

 

[DaGaffer]

Except of course it has, it's much higher now than it was pre- 1996.

ORLY?

Gun Deaths England & Wales
2011: 124
2010: 131
2009: 126
2008: 130
2007: 98
2006: 170
2005: 120
2004: 114
2003: 132
2002: 135
2001: 133
2000: 162
1999: 159
1998: 135
1997: 134
1996: 154
1995: 198

But more pertinently, Gun Deaths per 100,000 people:

2011: 0.22
2010: 0.24
2009: 0.23
2008: 0.24
2007: 0.18
2006: 0.32
2005: 0.22
2004: 0.21
2003: 0.25
2002: 0.26
2001: 0.25
2000: 0.31
1999: 0.31
1998: 0.26
1997: 0.26
1996: 0.30
1995: 0.39

 

[throdgrain]

Okay, Throd, Government says, okay, you can have a gun.

What are you going to do with the gun?

What is the point?

What do you mean what is the point? Are you simple ? You go to the gun club and shoot targets with it. Same as you do right now with a rifle, or a shotgun. I just got back from shooting about an hour ago.

I despair of your naivety to be honest.

DaGaffer, I can wave around internet links as well as you can

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiep...ars-in-england-where-guns-are-banned-n1464528



Granted there are ups and downs but the only point of banning legally held hand guns is to stop their owners from shooting people. Something that very very rarely happens anyway.

 

[Gwadien]

stuff.

I just don't think you can justify the legalisation of handguns in this country for a purely recreational purpose, it would most likely be abused, it works in countries like Switzerland because they have a close knit society, we have issues in this country with city 'life' as it is, I don't understand how you can say oh, gun crime would go down if guns become a lot more easily accessible.

 

[throdgrain]

I just don't think you can justify the legalisation of handguns in this country for a purely recreational purpose, it would most likely be abused, it works in countries like Switzerland because they have a close knit society, we have issues in this country with city 'life' as it is, I don't understand how you can say oh, gun crime would go down if guns become a lot more easily accessible.

It don't matter what you think, what matters is the facts. People like to shoot. You don't presumably, not that you'd know, and probably because you've been brought up in the post 1990 nanny state.

Fair play to DaGaffer, shooting have dropped of late, but they have dropped to more or less where they were 25 years ago, before the gun ban. The pistol ban was only brought about because of a paedophile who was known to the police - and who still let him keep his licence - went mad and shot and killed many children and their teacher in Scotland. A terrible terrible day, but it doesn't change the facts.

And no one has said gun crime would go down if pistols were legalised again. I'm saying, it wouldn't make any difference all the pistol shootings at the moment are carried out by illegal pistols, as there isn't any other sort. Legal pistol owners don't want to walk about like Billy the Kid, they were responsible people indulging in a sport. Pistol shooting is an Olympic sport for Gods sake

Oh, and just so you know, holding a pistol, or any other sort of gun, for self defence, is NOT a valid reason for owning one. Never has been. Except in Northern Ireland, for some odd reason ...

 

[Gwadien]

It don't matter what you think, what matters is the facts. People like to shoot. You don't presumably, not that you'd know, and probably because you've been brought up in the post 1990 nanny state.

Fair play to DaGaffer, shooting have dropped of late, but they have dropped to more or less where they were 25 years ago, before the gun ban. The pistol ban was only brought about because of a paedophile who was known to the police - and who still let him keep his licence - went mad and shot and killed many children and their teacher in Scotland. A terrible terrible day, but it doesn't change the facts.

And no one has said gun crime would go down if pistols were legalised again. I'm saying, it wouldn't make any difference all the pistol shootings at the moment are carried out by illegal pistols, as there isn't any other sort. Legal pistol owners don't want to walk about like Billy the Kid, they were responsible people indulging in a sport. Pistol shooting is an Olympic sport for Gods sake

Oh, and just so you know, holding a pistol, or any other sort of gun, for self defence, is NOT a valid reason for owning one. Never has been. Except in Northern Ireland, for some odd reason ...

I live in Shottingham mate, that's why I'm skeptical about guns, It'll be a lot easier for gangs to access guns, that's my concern.

I don't know where you live, but in cities, people don't generally own shotguns and stuff, but I worked out in the countryside, and obviously gun-crime is near next to nothing (Exempt the odd cases of people killing their families)

If you legalise handguns, I can see people abusing it, purely because they're small enough to carry as a self defence weapon.

Let's agree to disagree, because you're a Rural C/conservative, and for you it's clear that it can only be positive for leisure purposes, but I'm a Urban small s socialist, and I can only see it having negative and very many positives effects. (Unless they allow people to defend their land etc which IMO, is still not a flawless idea.)

 

[throdgrain]

I live in Crawley ffs.

If you knew the hoops you have to jump through to get a shotgun or firearms licence, you may change your opinion on all that. Each gun is registered to a specific licence holder. You can't just make a licenced gun disappear and sell it to Big Ron up the road (probably a different kind of name in fairness.) Mostly I find people make these knee-jerk assumptions because they don't know the facts, which really pisses me off because it effects me quite a lot.

 

[Gwadien]

I live in Crawley ffs.

If you knew the hoops you have to jump through to get a shotgun or firearms licence, you may change your opinion on all that. Each gun is registered to a specific licence holder. You can't just make a licenced gun disappear and sell it to Big Ron up the road (probably a different kind of name in fairness.) Mostly I find people make these knee-jerk assumptions because they don't know the facts, which really pisses me off because it effects me quite a lot.

It'd be much easier for Big Ron to come to your house and steal your gun, rather getting one from Big Dave, who imported it from America and charges you stupid amounts for it.

 

[georgie]

If we just arrested Big Dave and Big Ron all of this could be sorted tbh.