UKIP

[Job]

Voted UKIP for Euro and local, bit pointless on local because they moved the boundaries
last year and our previously Tory stronghold has been sucked up by the Labour zerg in
all the seriously minty parts of Liverpool.

 

[Scouse]

Voted UKIP for Euro and local

Lol @Raven & @Bodhi

 

[Bodhi]

Even though I said I wasn't planning to vote UKIP? In fact, I haven't.

 

[Raven]

You're coming across as a bit of a fool, Scouse.

 

[Scouse]

You're coming across as a bit of a fool, Scouse.

May be a fool, but I didn't vote UKIP along with Job tho.

Just to lighten the mood:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4fQDAyl4GU

 

[throdgrain]

So, if someone agreed with Job they are automatically wrong.

So, Job must be automatically wrong about everything.

Seriously? Are you fucking mad mate?

Whenever the lefties start loosing, especially on the internet, but everywhere really, the racist trump card is used.

Please fuck off with that shit word.

 

[throdgrain]

Oh, and yes, I voted UKIP, and I'm fucking glad I did.

Next year? I expect I'll be voting Conservative.

 

[Job]

Scouse is fully entitled to his left wing..socialist..tree hugging views from rosespecsville and Im sure as soon as he stops having s threesome with Clegg and Trotsky he can nip down the prison..let all the criminals out and have them build him an extension for his Romanian family.

 

[Gwadien]

So, if someone agreed with Job they are automatically wrong.

So, Job must be automatically wrong about everything.

Seriously? Are you fucking mad mate?

Whenever the lefties start loosing, especially on the internet, but everywhere really, the racist trump card is used.

Please fuck off with that shit word.

I don't understand why everyone who criticises the 'right' are lefties - it makes no sense tbh, you can't moan that you're being called racists (which is the right wing stereotype) then go for blanket all your critics as lefties, lul.

Scouse is fully entitled to his left wing..socialist..tree hugging views from rosespecsville and Im sure as soon as he stops having s threesome with Clegg and Trotsky he can nip down the prison..let all the criminals out and have them build him an extension for his Romanian family.

Yep, because Scouse is a known treehugger, he wants everyone to be free, and he loves Romanians.

This is what I mean by stereotypes, I think UKIP are generally a far-right wing party, therefore by definition, they're racist/patriotic/nationalistic, how ever you want to sugar coat it.

It's unfair to blanket groups of people, like Farage did for the Romanians, all muslims are terrorists, all whites love america, all people that disagree with UKIP are instantly communists.

I believe in some of UKIPs policies, but the 'racist' thing has gone too far, if they put less emphasis on the 'dey r taking our jobs' aspect I may have got off my arse to vote, it's the money and the laws of the EU that bothers me.

I won't fall for the nationalistic bullshit, I'm bothered who pays, and doesn't pay taxes, myself being the latter.

 

[Scouse]

I don't understand why everyone who criticises the 'right' are lefties - it makes no sense tbh, you can't moan that you're being called racists (which is the right wing stereotype) then go for blanket all your critics as lefties, lul.

This.

I've openly rejected our current political system. I've stated that I don't think left and right politics is even remotely representative of what actually goes on. I call UKIP racist, because they identify with racist neonazi organisations across europe and their members express racist and homophobic views in large numbers.

Throddy, Job, Raven and Bodhs don't love the racist label and yet are happy to label me "left" - even though I've been supportive of Job recently - and Raven's been going out of his way to troll Job for the past twelve months and more...

Even if you reject UKIP as racist then you must admit they're far-right nationalists. Which is the politics of idiots the world over.

Rage all you like chaps. You don't love a mirror is all...

 

[throdgrain]

I don't care if you call me a racist. Couldn't give a toss. Even if I did hate blacks, or Chinese, or poles or whatever it is, I still don't believe it's your business anyway. Thought crime may exist in your world Winston, but it ain't got to mine yet thanks.

 

[Gwadien]

I don't care if you call me a racist. Couldn't give a toss. Even if I did hate blacks, or Chinese, or poles or whatever it is, I still don't believe it's your business anyway. Thought crime may exist in your world Winston, but it ain't got to mine yet thanks.

That's fine, you still have the democratic right to vote - but in my point of view if you're voting because of a skin colour, that's pathetic(IMO), it's almost as if you're saying, I'm a racist, but I don't want the stigma that is attached with such a labeling?

 

[Calaen]

Voted Labour in the end after a chat with the councillor tonight. Seemed less of a creep than the Ukip and Conservative councillors. I'm not a fan of creeps

 

[Raven]

I am really confused now. Do people seriously believe that anyone who votes UKIP are racist? Are you really that stupid?

I am pretty amazed people have fallen for the BBC/Guardian propaganda machine, its quite sad really. How is wanting a public vote on membership of the EU in any way shape or form being racist? Its baffling.

Well I will put it bluntly, I am not racist, not even in the slightest. If you want to call me that then you are simply scum to be honest.

I will continue to vote for the party that will give the public a chance to decide their own future and I don't much care what people have to say about it.

 

[Gwadien]

I am really confused now. Do people seriously believe that anyone who votes UKIP are racist? Are you really that stupid?

I am pretty amazed people have fallen for the BBC/Guardian propaganda machine, its quite sad really. How is wanting a public vote on membership of the EU in any way shape or form being racist? Its baffling.

Well I will put it bluntly, I am not racist, not even in the slightest. If you want to call me that then you are simply scum to be honest.

Nope, I never implied that, I said that UKIPs policies are pretty much racist, and their leader is racist (See Romanian comment, which let's face it, was racist.)

To reiterate what I was saying is that I was thinking of voting UKIP, but then I realised, they're -too- far right, and 'nationalistic' rather that bothered about getting rid of benefits tourists, or atleast that's how it came across to me.

And if you recall @Raven it was me that posted -ages- ago about the BBC's propaganda.

 

[Job]

Jeez it was a joke...(needs sarcasm font)...racist is a big word..not as big as humungus..bit still big..it means you automatically dislike and are prejudice against a racial group (even though theres no such thing but we know what they mean) simply because of their skin colour or heritage....does anyone here on anyside of the fence sometimes have those feelings and suppress them either for the company they are in or because they dont want to think like that..racism and xenophobia are a part of us all...its hard wired into our brains as much as sexual attraction..it served us well over the millenia and giving it up isnt easy for most..racists are like smokers..understand their addiction and help them see the truth...except for cockneys..they are twats.
You have to remember we are the least racist people on the planet...all these races around the world hate each other with a passion..Asians utterly despise blacks and Arabs and so on...were the only people trying to be multicultural

 

[ECA]

Racist isn't a big word. It's only 6 letters.

 

[ileks]

I went to the booth fully intent on spoiling my ballot but voted UKIP in the end, anything that makes the hacks at the Guardian cry a bit more is a winner for me.

Shit, the first thing I thought when I saw the length of the voting slip was how epic the cock Raven was going to draw on it would be

 

[Moriath]

Is it me or isn't racist being against a race ie black people, oriental people, etc

You can't be racist to your own race which is White European. Polish are the same race as us. They maybe a different country in Europe but they have the same race. Same as Romanian. There are organised gangs of Romanians that are here doing crime. Pickpockets, card skimmers etc. I do t know why they seem to be highlighted more than other countries. If there are more of them or not.

You maybe be xenophobic but I don't believe You can be racist if You don't want French or Germans in the UK or any other European country.

I work with Romanians and been to Bucharest and apart from the roaming packs of dogs it was nice.

 

[Raven]

Its just a word thrown about by idiots these days, it has lost all meaning. People who play the race card at the drop of a hat do huge damage to racial integration.

 

[TdC]

tbh what ground my gears a bit was when a lady friend of mine told me she wouldn't be voting. I said "and a million million women cried for the rights you just decided to ignore. she said: I never asked for those rights, and I certainly never asked for Europe. she then got angry when I told her to get in my kitchen and make me a steak sammich.

 

[Raven]

The bitch, she should be grateful to be asked to make you a sandwich.

 

[Scouse]

I don't care if you call me a racist.

I didn't. I said you've voted for racists. UKIP's a con job.

The protest vote should either be a spoiled ballot or not voting. Not a bunch of nationalistic wankers, surely?

Do people seriously believe that anyone who votes UKIP are racist?

Nope. But UKIP, in all seriousness, is.

 

[Ch3tan]

Ukip are a farce, but people clearly buy their bull. If people honestly think leaving Europe would be a good thing, it that immigration is bad then they deserve to have ukip as their voice.

 

[Job]

The reason we should leave Europe is because the continentals will fuk it up...they always do..itll grow too big with a bazillion people in charge...everybody infighting...money vaporising into bad economies...so many rules noone will be able to do anything...then comes the falling out..it happens over and over again and Britain will stand by and watch...its a 100% guaranteed train wreck..in fact it allready is.
This isnt about UKIP or Farage its about signalling to the Eurocrats that we could get very serious about leaving which would be the death blow for the union...do you honestly think it could survive us pulling the plug...its allready balanced on the edge and tbh we'd have 50x more problems with immigration if we left.

 

[throdgrain]

Immigration is obviously bad Ch3tan. On this scale anyway. They all bang on about house prices, then when hundreds of thousands of people come here with no where to live, they wonder why house prices shoot up.

When animal lovers protest about extinction, they wonder why when we've built on all the countryside to house these everyone. You can't UNconcrete over things.

Scouse, a spoiled ballot , really? Grow up

 

[Job]

A level headed opinion on leaving the EU from the FT

Spoiler

does not really matter if Britain leaves

Wolfgang Münchau

Should the UK remain at the heart of Europe?

If you believe that this is where the UK is actually located, then the answer may well be yes. But then you would either look at it from a very long distance – the US state department for example – or suffer from perspective distortion.

Looking at this from inside the EU, the UK left the heart of Europe 20 years ago when John Major negotiated the opt-out from the euro. Tony Blair confirmed that position when his government took the opt-out in the later 1990s. It is completely unsurprising that there is now a debate inside the UK about membership. People are asking themselves a perfectly logical question: since we are not in the eurozone, nor likely ever to become a member, what is the point?

In macroeconomic terms, EU membership is virtually irrelevant for a member state that is simultaneously large and not in the eurozone. The EU budget is tiny, and free trade and free capital movement would continue under any conceivable scenario. There may be reasons to stay in the EU, but whatever they are, they are not macroeconomic.

If you go one level down – to the level of individual industries, including finance – the impact of EU membership is more subtle. But here it is important to take a realistic look at how the EU itself will develop in the next 10 years, and not romanticise the liberal, free-trade EU of the past, when Mario Monti or Lord Brittan were still European commissioners.

Over the next 10 years, the EU will mostly deal with the institutional consequences of the eurozone crisis, deepen eurozone integration, and change European treaties to make that possible.

In the agreement on banking union, the UK has secured a protection from being outvoted on matters relating to bank supervision. But the eurozone will find a way to usurp this and other single-market powers. A hint of that recently came from Christian Noyer, governor of the Bank of France, when he said the eurozone would not allow the City of London to dominate euro-related securities trading forever.

I doubt that EU membership could ultimately protect the UK from an inevitable eurozone power grab. A single market in a single-currency regime is a very different beast than a single market in a customs union. In the first category the purpose is adjustment of wages and prices; in the second it is free trade. Italy needs a single European labour market. The UK does not.

What, then, would the UK leave behind by leaving the EU? Membership confers a series of fundamental freedoms – of movement of labour, goods and services and capital. Member states are part of a customs union and, of course, an unfinished single-market project, one that has stalled long before it has been completed. Britain may be able to maintain several of these benefits: not the customs union, but most of the rest.

The common foreign and security policy has not lived up to the exaggerated expectations of the past decade. Even here, it may be possible, and in everybody’s best interest, to maintain some form of engagement and co-operation. But is it important enough to make a compelling case for continued membership?

What about the UK beneficiaries of EU funds – universities, for example? As a net contributor to the EU’s budget, the UK would be able to compensate any institution, and still have some money left.

A genuine complication would be a prior decision by Scotland to leave the UK in a referendum that will most likely take place next year. Any hypothetical UK referendum would happen afterwards. If Scotland were to vote for independence, the situation would get messy. The legal services of all the three main EU institutions believe that by formally leaving an existing member state, a region would also formally exit the EU. Like any European country, Scotland would have the right to reapply, but any one member state could veto a Scottish application. I cannot currently see the required unanimity for admitting an independent Scottish state, not when other countries, such as Spain, are also fighting regional nationalism.

The two straightforward solutions would be: Scotland leaving the UK, and both the rump-UK and Scotland also leaving the EU. Or Scotland staying inside the UK, and the UK staying inside the EU. But we could end up with England inside and Scotland outside, or vice versa. In the last two cases, England and Scotland would have to re-erect a customs border between them – which would be absurd.

The best reason to stay in the EU is not a pretence to be in the heart of Europe, but to keep things simple, and maybe to have the flexibility to change one’s mind about the euro later on – if the political or economic situation were to change. But in that case, the UK could always be readmitted, so even that is not a compelling argument.

My overall conclusion is that the discussion about EU membership is about barely visible shades of grey.

 

[Scouse]

Exit polls suggest @TdC's lot have rejected their local facists.

Which is nice

 

[Moriath]

If all the uk councils can talk about is new houses being built then we have too much population growth.

Most of which is immigration. Most of which we can't control


I think we would be better off aligning with the USA out of Europe than where we are at the moment

 

[Ch3tan]

Immigration is obviously bad Ch3tan. On this scale anyway. They all bang on about house prices, then when hundreds of thousands of people come here with no where to live, they wonder why house prices shoot up.

When animal lovers protest about extinction, they wonder why when we've built on all the countryside to house these everyone. You can't UNconcrete over things.

Scouse, a spoiled ballot , really? Grow up

On what scale... what's your reference point and the facts to show why it's bad? As for housing, London is a bubble fed by foreign investment and local greed. Housing could be solved by simply building more and changing the rules on foreign ownership of residential property.

For all the talk of eu immigration being high, the truth is that overall immigration hasn't gone up. Immigration from the rest of the world has gone down whisky eu immigration has gone up.