News Tottenham riots

[eksdee]

David Starkey is a racist piece of shit. What an odious cunt.

Also this is a pretty good read: https://network23.org/hackneyanarch...ckneyAnarchistGroup+(Hackney+Anarchist+Group)

I don't support such a hard line stance on violence against the police, as I feel that is counter-productive, but the idea of building communities and the idea of community spirit/togetherness/equality to oppose the sort of scenes we've seen from happening in the future is certainly something I support.

 

[Embattle]

A bit? I've heard British historians be utterly awful human beings but this is the first time I've seen it for myself. It's just sad knowing that a lot of people will listen to him and just nod their heads in agreement.

Actually I don't think many did, much as some people want to push others into the same camp just because at times they believe in tougher action.

 

[Helme]

Looking at the YouTube comments, a lot of people agreed with him. I've also heard the same kind of thinking from friends, and seen it on other forums.

 

[Job]

Lol, educated people tell truth, everybody feints, gets sacked.

He was just using an off the cuff simplistic description of the melding of black gansta culture with white chav culture.
That's why we're still dealing with this shit, cos no-one is allowed to talk about it, like that uncle who touches up the grandkids.

My ex was Jamaican/Manc or half caste, mixed race..whatever, and she was stopped a few years ago by a local copper who must have just been to the diversity meeting that morning and kept all the shit they give you.
So he spots her, the only slightly black girl in north Liverpool and pulls her over and gets a freakin colour chart out and asks her to point to which shade she thinks she is!
No shit, not just are you white, mixed, black, asian.
That particular bit of perverted multiculturalism must have been pulled the second someone with three brain cells saw it.

 

[Corran]

lmfao, are you sure he didnt just pull out a paint colour chart and wanted to pain his kitchen the same colour as your ex? lol

 

[old.user4556]

I agree with David Starkey on some points. Before I even watched the video, and before this rioting kicked off, I always poked fun at London calling it "little Africa". It's jam packed full of Tupac worshipping, Jafaican "INNIT BRUV" wannabe black gangsters, particularly out in the east end that I was most familiar with. It's an abhorrent culture in the same way that chav culture is abhorrent.

Sadly, it's only going to get worse. If you stamp out INNIT BRUV culture, it ultimately means stamping out a major section of the black community which is neeeevvverrrr going to happen. No offence to those that live in London, but you really can't throw stones when it comes to calling anywhere else in the UK a shithole .

 

[Embattle]

Looking at the Youtube comments, a lot of people agreed with him. I've also heard the same kind of thinking from friends, and seen it on other forums.

I personally would never use Youtube comments as some sort of reference considering what normally turns up on them. I should perhaps rationalize what I said by saying that I don't think people agree with him totally but will when talking about certain aspects of what he said or at least see certain aspect of it as being some what true.

 

[Lamp]

There are shitholes in London, absolutely (eg Knights Hill, Neasden, Whitechapel, Harlesden, Wood Green, Tottenham, Mostyn Rd area in Brixton, East Ham, Peckham, Kings Cross, etc) but there are also some lovely places (Highgate, Kew, Chiswick, Primrose Hill, parts of Rotherhithe SE16 by the waterways, Regents Canal, etc etc)

 

[old.user4556]

There are shitholes in London, absolutely (eg Knights Hill, Neasden, Mostyn Rd area in Brixton, East Ham, Peckham, Kings Cross, etc) but there are also some lovely places (Highgate, Kew, Chiswick, Primrose Hill, parts of Rotherhithe SE16 by the waterways, Regents Canal, etc etc)

Pretty much like everywhere in the world. What gets to me is that there is a definite condescending attitude from the south east that London is somehow superior to the rest of the UK, and it's simply not.

 

[Job]

Exactly, Toxteth is hardly a shithole, I would call it a vibrant area, but the different cultures don't mix, they're just in the same place, they hate each other for the same reasons we dislike parts of their cultures we don't like.

Some of the estates around here right next to millionaires house are full of the worst scumbags on the planet.

 

[Raven]

David Starkey is a racist piece of shit. What an odious cunt.

None of that was racism. He was commenting on the culture, most of which comes from West Indian and Jamaican culture, heavily influenced by American gang culture, including its hateful music. (nb. not all rap and hip hop is bad ofc but quite a lot is gansta bullshit) calling him a racist is like called someone who says "Indians like spiced food" a racist.

I don't support such a hard line stance on violence against the police.

Earlier in the thread you thought it was a good thing that a policeman was taking a kicking from some retarded rioter. I wonder how many people would like it if the police all just quit and left people to get on with it. What, your house is being robbed? Deal with it! Oh dear, you seem to have been mugged in the street...well I am sure you will be fine!

 

[Ch3tan]

Blaming music for anything is as bad as blaming movies, books or games. It's a bullshit argument. Music, just like other media is an expression of society, it's the result, not the cause.

 

[eksdee]

None of that was racism. He was commenting on the culture, most of which comes from West Indian and Jamaican culture, heavily influenced by American gang culture, including its hateful music. (nb. not all rap and hip hop is bad ofc but quite a lot is gansta bullshit) calling him a racist is like called someone who says "Indians like spiced food" a racist.

Are you serious? If you are there's no point even discussing this. Be blind to it all you like, the guy is an absolute piece of shit and his opinions are utterly heinous. He equated white=right/black=wrong. He describes a whole race's 'culture' as being violent.

Two nice quotes:

"The whites have been become black"
"This language which is wholly false"

If he's not a racist then I have no idea what a racist is.

P.s. that "Indians like spiced food" bit is one of the most retarded things I've seen anyone write in this trainwreck of a thread.

Earlier in the thread you thought it was a good thing that a policeman was taking a kicking from some retarded rioter. I wonder how many people would like it if the police all just quit and left people to get on with it. What, your house is being robbed? Deal with it! Oh dear, you seem to have been mugged in the street...well I am sure you will be fine!

Are you actually this stupid? Learn to read/understand, I'm not going through all that tired rubbish again for people who are just too plain stupid to even waste my time on.

 

[Tuthmes]

None of that was racism. He was commenting on the culture, most of which comes from West Indian and Jamaican culture, heavily influenced by American gang culture, including its hateful music.

Are you honestly saying that the cultures of India and Jamaica are influenced by American gang's?

calling him a racist is like called someone who says "Indians like spiced food" a racist.

Well I wouldnt say that someone who says that is racist, but you'd have to be carefull. Not all indians are alike and not all like spiced food. You are generalising a group of people which is by definition wrong.

Saying; "Spiced food is a part of Indian culture." would be politically correct though.

 

[Raven]

Are you actually this stupid? Learn to read/understand, I'm not going through all that tired rubbish again for people who are just too plain stupid to even waste my time on.

Well, I'm pretty on the fence with the rioting in general. THIS however I am fully in support of:

It looks pretty clear to me. You are indifferent to people smashing the place up and you are in support of people attacking the police.

 

[Raven]

Are you honestly saying that the cultures of India and Jamaica are influenced by American gang's?.

No, I said London gang culture is influenced by West Indian and Jamaican culture and American gangster culture.

 

[eksdee]

It looks pretty clear to me. You are indifferent to people smashing the place up and you are in support of people attacking the police.

If you bothered to read everything else, you might have a clue instead of just making yourself look like an idiot. Feel free to do so.

That said, you're doing that equally well by saying someone who says things like "the whites have become black" isn't a racist.

You're welcome to your opinions, no matter what I may think of them, but don't do me and everyone else the disservice of trying to make out they're something they're not. If you're in support of cunts like Starkey then at least be transparent about the fact you're a bigot.

 

[Embattle]

Blaming music for anything is as bad as blaming movies, books or games. It's a bullshit argument. Music, just like other media is an expression of society, it's the result, not the cause.

If I remember correctly it was that they were saying how certain music/musicians portray rampant consumerism which was something that was partly blamed for the resulting looting by some people, to me such things are only a small part of the puzzle.

 

[Raven]

You're welcome to your opinions, no matter what I may think of them, but don't do me and everyone else the disservice of trying to make out they're something they're not. If you're in support of cunts like Starkey then at least be transparent about the fact you're a bigot.

Erm no. I just think people who cry racist about everything do just as much damage to race relations as some dickhead in the EDL.

Feel free to find any bigotry in this thread (or anywhere else for that matter) from me.

 

[eksdee]

Erm no. I just think people who cry racist about everything do just as much damage to race relations as some dickhead in the EDL.

Feel free to find any bigotry in this thread (or anywhere else for that matter) from me.

And because I think what Starkey is spouting in that video is racist bullshit means I "cry racist about everything"?

'K'.

As long as it's only a bit of racism here and there, it's okay? Right? Just enough for your daily dose?

 

[Raven]

Nope. Did I say you did? You're confusing yourself.

 

[eksdee]

No, but the assumption is clearly there or what you said has absolutely no substance or point of being said in the context that you said it.

Anyway whatever, another bigot in this thread. Nothing new. I'm the idiot for thinking it's worth wasting my time posting anything in the first place.

 

[- English -]

Starkey was talking about culture not race, and the other people turned it into a race attack. He even said it wasn't about skin colour, and ofcourse the BBC had a biased presenter which made it a 3v1.

 

[Lamp]

Starkey is good television. He's intelligent, provocative, confrontational, & abrasive. Thats why he's on QT a lot. I don't think he's a racist. You'll never be able to have an adult conversation with people who can't see past the word "black" without screaming racism at you.

 

[Raven]

Anyway whatever, another bigot in this thread

Again with the name calling? Not quite as clever as you like to think you are, are you?

Like I said, show where I have been a bigot, please, I would like to see it.

You are very very good at avoiding backing up your assumptions, I will give you that.

 

[Tom]

David Starkey, a racist? LOL.

 

[Ctuchik]

My counter argument to this is first hand. I never grew up going to groups or youth centres and other things which you suggest to pamper these rioters, and I believe I have grown up to be a good citizen. How? I had good parents, who taught me roles and responsibilities on how to be a good citizen. My parents have always been very poor, my mother has been unable to work for 20 years, and my father had a very very poor income, yet as a family they raised 4 children including me, who have all grown up to be responsible adults.

That's beside the point, i'm not being disrespectful here but you cant argue "just because i could everyone can".

I could counterargument that with "Rooney is a great fooballer, why aren't you?" (Everyone, please don't bring football in to this, it's an example nothing else)

I dont believe the answer to this is all these activity centres, youth groups. I'm not saying they are a bad thing, but I dont believe they're the answer to the problem. If you ask me, it starts at the top. Parenting. Theres far too many youth pregnancies, single parents, men and women who don't know how to keep their particulars in their pants.

Yes, parents do have a responsibility, but it's not ONLY their responsibility.

What exactly are you proposing to family's that for one reason or other can't give their kids what they need?

All family's with trouble kids are not being lazy, they just don't have the resources or the strength to do what is needed.

Be that financially, medically or other.

On the center i work i talk to youths that say they have had a fully normal upbringing with sane and fair rules, but because of their situation have not been able to activate in any interest or hobby. So they end up hanging around gas stations or roam around town, and by doing that get stamped as a hooligan or gangbanger and that's when the problems starts.

Or they just happened to grow up in the wrong neighborhood.

Are we really supposed to punish those family's?

No i don't think so, i think we should help them in any way we can, and if a few "true" problem kids get caught up and off the streets, is that really a bad thing?

Activity centers may not be the best solution everywhere, but they most certainly will never ever make things worse.

They will however always make a positive difference, big or small.

Politicians really like to use "cost" as an argument against opening activity centers or other social hubs for kids/youths, but how much do you think these riots will end up costing?

Youth centers aren't there to take over parenting, they are there to complement, nothing else. It's still the parents responsibility to foster their kids, we just make it easier for them to stay out of trouble.

P.S: I'm using youth centers and activity centers as the same thing, i just got tired always writing the same thing..

Hell, it doesn't even have to be proper building centers, here in my neighborhood we have 5 kids that run a skateboard park, not a very big one but it's big enough. It's got one of those "horseshoe" ramps and a few rails and jumps.

And all the help they got were to be donated the materials to build it, everything else they did themselves.

Now there's about 20 - 30 kids going there regularly in the summer. And as it's the kids themselves that built it and are maintaining it, it's only been vandalized once in 5 years.

There are fitting solutions out there, of which many doesn't cost much either. It's just a matter of being arsed to find them.

 

[Job]

Obviously 400 years of slavery, everyone did it of course , we just did it on an industrial scale and our own documenting of it and the resultant guilt has sort of made us the poster boys for the whole thing, would result in a little bit of sensitivity on the subject, but to see the incredibly fine line people have to tread when discussing these subjects should make you realise how farcical it has got.
No matter how intelligent his observations he and everyone else has to skirt around a set of arbitary rules, that have nothing to do with anyon'es opinion
on these matters, they are just verbal no-goes and straying onto them is like putting your foot on the the wrong rock in an Indiana Jones movie.

 

[Raven]

Exactly, as soon as anyone mentions the word black then the people they are debating with latch onto it, knowing they, themselves have no real argument.

Like I said, people who cry racist at every possible opportunity, stifle any real debate and stop anyone from getting to the route cause. But that suits them because if we were all just allowed to get along with each other then the self absorbed hand wringers would serve no purpose.

 

[Tuthmes]

No, I said London gang culture is influenced by West Indian and Jamaican culture and American gangster culture.

And prolly even more influenced by the English culture.