News Tottenham riots

[DaGaffer]

Obviously 400 years of slavery, everyone did it of course , we just did it on an industrial scale and our own documenting of it and the resultant guilt has sort of made us the poster boys for the whole thing, would result in a little bit of sensitivity on the subject, but to see the incredibly fine line people have to tread when discussing these subjects should make you realise how farcical it has got.
No matter how intelligent his observations he and everyone else has to skirt around a set of arbitary rules, that have nothing to do with anyon'es opinion
on these matters, they are just verbal no-goes and straying onto them is like putting your foot on the the wrong rock in an Indiana Jones movie.

Technically in Britain's case it was about 150 years of slavery. The British were last in first out of the whole slavery business but while we WERE in it we did massively more than anyone else; we even took over Spain's slave business and ran it for them. /pedant

 

[old.user4556]

Starkey was talking about culture not race, and the other people turned it into a race attack. He even said it wasn't about skin colour, and ofcourse the BBC had a biased presenter which made it a 3v1.

That's the problem with the blacks, they're always going to be able to play the colour card.

What that clip told me was that no matter how correct you are, you simply can't make a comment about black people / culture without someone going "OMFG RACIALIST!!!!! BURNNNN!!!".

You can criticise middle class whites, white chavs, even the way white people dance. But don't fucking dare make a criticism about black people.

How to Dance like a White Guy *50% off DVDs Summer Sale* - YouTube

 

[Tuthmes]

Exactly, as soon as anyone mentions the word black then the people they are debating with latch onto it, knowing they, themselves have no real argument.

Like I said, people who cry racist at every possible opportunity, stifle any real debate and stop anyone from getting to the route cause. But that suits them because if we were all just allowed to get along with each other then the self absorbed hand wringers would serve no purpose.

Why would you want to mention the word black in a conversation?

Basically you and Job are sad about the fact that you can't be racist anymore. Which made me chuckle a bit tbh.

 

[Tuthmes]

That's the problem with the blacks, they're always going to be able to play the colour card.

What that clip told me was that no matter how correct you are, you simply can't make a comment about black people / culture without someone going "OMFG RACIALIST!!!!! BURNNNN!!!".

You can criticise middle class whites, white chavs, even the way white people dance. But don't fucking dare make a criticism about black people.

How to Dance like a White Guy *50% off DVDs Summer Sale* - YouTube

It's because the whites put the card on the table in the first place. :kissit:

I honestly still don't understand why culture and colour has anything todo with this thread and the riots going on in England.

 

[Raven]

Why would you want to mention the word black in a conversation?

Basically you and Job are sad about the fact that you can't be racist anymore. Which made me chuckle a bit tbh.

What? I have never been racist.

How is saying someone is black being racist? Off white? Brownish? Will they do?

 

[Tuthmes]

What? I have never been racist.

How is saying someone is black being racist? Off white? Brownish? Will they do?

Why would you want to say someone is black? Why make to observation and place it into an argument? You see the world in colours yet you ask yourself why someone would call you a racist.

Or you could start an argument with saying:

You're fat.
You're a woman.
You're a child/old.
etc, etc.


Once again, please explain to me what the racial colour or culture has got to do with the riots in England.

 

[old.user4556]

Once again, please explain to me what the racial colour or culture has got to do with the riots in England.

Are you being deliberately obtuse, or do you genuinely not know and need someone to explain it?

 

[- English -]

Noun 1. racist - a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others
racialist
bigot - a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own

why is saying some is black being a racist now?

 

[Raven]

Why would you want to say someone is black?

Possibly because they are, you know...black?

It's not like people go around saying, oh hi black man. how are you today?

Some people are just black though, the same as some are white. I don't see what you don't understand.

 

[Tom]

Once again, please explain to me what the racial colour or culture has got to do with the riots in England.

Colour has little to do with it. Culture is very much at the root of it.

I'm guessing you don't live here.

 

[Turamber]

Not read all of the posts (sorry, there are a lot!) but I see racism is being discussed again. There is a fascinating, if painful, clip on the BBC website with a historian talking about black culture being at fault for the riots whilst an 'expert' on chavs and a black intellectual shout him down.

Personally I think he's an old, upper class person who is out of touch with modern Britain and youth culture. But these riots are "serious business" (TM) and people should be allowed to discuss issues calmly and openly without labels such as 'racist' coming out.

Sure, if somebody wants all non-whites thrown out the country, locked up or treated like animals or speaks of them as evil or dirt because of the colour of their skin -- yes that person is a racist. But, even though I think he is wrong, talking about "black culture" in itself should not get people's heckles up.

BBC News - England riots: 'The whites have become black' says David Starkey

 

[Tuthmes]

Colour has little to do with it. Culture is very much at the root of it.

I'm guessing you don't live here.

I don't, no. I lived in the Bijlmer in Amsterdam for over 7 years so I've seen my fair share of cultures though.

 

[Raven]

Yeah that was the video that some of our lower brow users got hot under the collar about. As soon as they heard the word black they ignored everything else he said.

 

[Tuthmes]

Noun 1. racist - a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others
racialist
bigot - a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own

why is saying some is black being a racist now?

Racism is the belief that there are inherent differences in people's traits and capacities that are entirely due to their race, however defined, and that, as a consequence, racial discrimination (i.e. different treatment of those people, both socially and legally) is justified.

...

 

[Raven]

I don't, no. I lived in the Bijlmer in Amsterdam for over 7 years so I've seen my fair share of cultures though.

The culture being discussed is gang culture, something of a problem in inner city London, exasperated by consumerism and the fact that the yoots think they are owed something. Gun crime among off white (can I say that???) teenagers in London is a huge problem. It's nothing at all to do with racism, it's just a fact backed up by statistics that gun crime in London is predominantly amongst young black men.

Brushing it under the carpet so that you don't offend people like Eksdee will not solve the problem. However, openly discussing it without fear of being labelled a racist for investigating the facts will help get to the route cause.

 

[Tom]

Quoting a poor quality Wikipedia article? I prefer the OED:

"The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races. Hence: prejudice and antagonism towards people of other races, esp. those felt to be a threat to one's cultural or racial integrity or economic well-being; the expression of such prejudice in words or actions. Also occas. in extended use, with reference to people of other nationalities"

 

[Tuthmes]

The culture being discussed is gang culture, something of a problem in inner city London, exasperated by consumerism and the fact that the yoots think they are owed something. Gun crime among off white (can I say that???) teenagers in London is a huge problem. It's nothing at all to do with racism, just a fact.

You are starting to scare me Raven. Perhaps just say Gun crime among teenagers in Londen is a huge problem? Or leave our teenagers and just say; "Gun crime in London is a huge problem."

 

[Tuthmes]

Quoting a poor quality Wikipedia article? I prefer the OED:

"The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races. Hence: prejudice and antagonism towards people of other races, esp. those felt to be a threat to one's cultural or racial integrity or economic well-being; the expression of such prejudice in words or actions. Also occas. in extended use, with reference to people of other nationalities"

That will do aswell. Point quoting wise made anyway.

 

[Tuthmes]

Brushing it under the carpet so that you don't offend people like Eksdee will not solve the problem. However, openly discussing it without fear of being labelled a racist for investigating the facts will help get to the route cause.

Yes let's just be able to say the jews are a problem to society once more. Just because we must not fear beeing labelled a racist.

 

[old.user4556]

You are starting to scare me Raven. Perhaps just say Gun crime among teenagers in Londen is a huge problem? Or leave our teenagers and just say; "Gun crime in London is a huge problem."

Because that's innacurate, the gun crime is mostly a problem in black communities. Yes, I said it - black.

In the same way, cocaine is a problem typically in middle class whites where I am. Yes, white people.

 

[Tuthmes]

Because that's innacurate, the gun crime is mostly a problem in black communities. Yes, I said it - black.

In the same way, cocaine is a problem typically in middle class whites where I am. Yes, white people.

Because to problem to gun crime has nothing todo with beeing black? Perhaps it's beeing able to get guns for example? Or (insert any good argument).

As for cocaine. Trust me, that aswell has nothing todo with skin colour either.........

 

[Raven]

You are starting to scare me Raven. Perhaps just say Gun crime among teenagers in Londen is a huge problem? Or leave our teenagers and just say; "Gun crime in London is a huge problem."

Is this a language barrier problem or something? How would totally avoiding the facts help solve the problem?

A bit of light reading for you (apologies for the wiki link)
Operation Trident (Metropolitan Police) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BBC NEWS | UK | Q&A: Operation Trident

I am not quite sure why you are bringing Jewish people into this....

 

[Shagrat]

Got to say im not sure where your coming from atm either Tuthmes, what Raven is trying to say is a proven fact, the majority of gang based gun crime in inner city London is black on black.

Until people are able to sit at a table and discuss that without the R word coming out, these issues are not going to get solved.

 

[Tuthmes]

Got to say im not sure where your coming from atm either Tuthmes, what Raven is trying to say is a proven fact, the majority of gang based gun crime in inner city London is black on black.

Until people are able to sit at a table and discuss that without the R word coming out, these issues are not going to get solved.

What i'm try'ing saying is that the problem lies not in beeing black...

 

[Raven]

Nobody is saying it is.

 

[old.user4556]

Because to problem to gun crime has nothing todo with beeing black? Perhaps it's beeing able to get guns for example? Or (insert any good argument).

As for cocaine. Trust me, that aswell has nothing todo with skin colour either.........

Jesus Christ. You're not understanding what I'm saying.

The logic does not go "They're white, therefore they're cocaine users" or "They're black, therefore they must use guns".

The logic goes that there is a particular demographic of cocaine use that slots into the "middle class whites" which would indicate those with more money, in good jobs and living in middle class suburbia (for example..). It's the same with guns; there is a statistical weight that gun crime is amongst low class black communities, not white communities. You simply cannot ignore that it's a low-income, deprived black community culture issue.

 

[Tom]

You're correct, all things being equal, being black doesn't mean you're any more likely to become involved in crime. However, statistically, black people are more likely to be convicted of a crime. And statistically, black people perform less well in schools.

What clouds the issue is the simple fact that for many people, discussing these problems is taboo. If black people are over-represented in such statistics then lets find the causes, without slinging accusations of racism around.

 

[Tuthmes]

You're correct, all things being equal, being black doesn't mean you're any more likely to become involved in crime. However, statistically, black people are more likely to be convicted of a crime. And statistically, black people perform less well in schools.

What clouds the issue is the simple fact that for many people, discussing these problems is taboo. If black people are over-represented in such statistics then lets find the causes, without slinging accusations of racism around.

Let's just say I have some serious issues with statistics and reasoning like this.

 

[Tom]

Reasoning like what? My reasoning?

My reasoning is that there's clearly a problem in that black people are over-represented in certain statistics, namely those involving crime and deprivation. Race isn't an issue and I don't believe anyone (certain retards excepted) is suggesting it is - even David Starkey.

You seem from the outset to be suggesting that we should ignore skin colour or culture, but that's clearly not productive.

 

[Tuthmes]

Reasoning like what? My reasoning?

My reasoning is that there's clearly a problem in that black people are over-represented in certain statistics, namely those involving crime and deprivation. Race isn't an issue and I don't believe anyone (certain retards excepted) is suggesting it is - even David Starkey.

You seem from the outset to be suggesting that we should ignore skin colour or culture, but that's clearly not productive.

To me you are contradicting yourself. First you say black people are over-represented in certain statistics, then mention race isn't an issue.

If it's not an issue then why mention it?