Take that albs!

[Boggy]

But you actually cant compare animists with anyone. My theurg isnt a keeptaking machine nor it is any better than most nukers in keep defence. My pets cost me 5% with my current sc so without fop I can cast about 20 of em and then I have to rest. They hit about every 4-5 sec I think and last about 25 sec so thats something like 5-7 nukes from a pet before they die. If you by any chance happen to damage the pets or debuff em etc they go into melee mode and they useless. Since they melee for about 0... animist pets last for 2 mins right? And if you nuke em they wont go to melee right? And you can put em to tables and objects like oil pot and you know they propably not targettable right? (funny story here. I went to defend a tower and put up an oil pot and about 2 shots with the oil it started going down really fast. Got then nuked insta to death and before releasing saw pot being destroyed about in 15 secs and shrooms were under the pot. Could only see the caps of em there.) See where im going? I know for sure what my pets can do and what those cant do and I am sure you know what your pets can do also. Only thing I havent been able to find is how much animist pets do damage to keep doors and oil pots etc per nuke since they damaging me alot more than my ice pets damaging enemy casters.

The fact is I get my rp's is openfield. There the pets are much better than animist ones. (unless the animist have some nice objects/hill/ other stuff to hide em to) But still pets are not that great. If I would have earthies then maybe they would actually kill something but simple thing to avoid my pets is to run away and run back when im oop. Not too hard if you can keep the distance to me. But if you let me spam air and ice ones for about 1 minute then yes you propably dead.

And again cant really compare the animists and other classes in keeps since animists really shine in there. I have still to see any other class that can make u much impact to keep defence as animist can. I also realise animist are not too great on other situations. But we are not talking about other situations. We talking about keeps and fights in em. And sure some dont know how to abuse bugs with animist pets but im 100% sure some do and when some in the keep says they have great gt I doubt you ask em if it isnt in place we cant target em you just spam pets there and laugh at the stupid albs that cant get your pet killed and enjoy the rp's even if it is 50% of the max.

And yes we are going to face even bigger problems about this in the future. If now 3 animists can aid few other people to whipe a zerg then what can 10 of em do. And yes I say aid to whipe a zerg since I realise it needs more than just the animists but about 90% of the cause is the shrooms imo. And I play almost everyday and rvr quite much and I think about 10k is good rp's per week for casual player that plays few days a week or so. There is 17 animists over that atm. I realise there isnt much animist high rr but that is the problem with all realms and the problem is FOTM thinking. You really shouldnt compare anything with the people that play 100% of their free time maxing everything they can, find every bug they can abuse, roll fotm chars even they would have liked to play the old ones...

Well that is just my opinnion about shrooms and animists and theurgs. All can have their own opinnions and I do like to hear about em... Honestly I do.

Look - you can set whatever RPs you personally feel is a decent amount or whatever, but it makes no difference. You say 10k, fine, go and compare the number of animists at that amount to otehr Hib and Alb classes. You will see that there are MANY classes being played more than animists. This crap that Hibs have been all playing anis at keep defenses to wipe Alb zergs is rubbish. There have been hardly any animists in any of our defenses.

The claim that animists are deliberately exploiting geometry bugs is equally rubbish. It's obvious you are just ignoring me when I say this, but I will say it again - an animist DOES NOT KNOW when he places a GT if the shrooms on that GT will be bugged. It's that simple. YOU are the ones who get the message saying "You target is not visible". The animist gets no feedback. USE YOUR HEAD - we don't get any message saying "Someone tried to attack your shroom and failed." How the hell would we know you're trying to nuke it or not?

The oil and keep question is easy to answer. Animist pet spam does ZERO damage to doors or oil. We have one controllable pet that melee's, and is therefore able to attack doors and oil, but since it is a controllable we are only allowed one of them out at once. It takes down the oil fairly quick if placed on the battlements, but that is not a bug exploit. It's a feature deliberately built in by Mythic.

 

[Gwenne]

The reaver, animist, theurgist argument is getting a bit technical for me. I'm only a firbolg <grins>. Out of interest, I looked up in the roll of honour the last week realm points for the three classes. Last week realm points has to be some indication of how successful a class is against the enemy.

Highest last week realm points for a theurgist was 258,061
Highest last week realm points for a reaver was 250,645
Highest last week realm points for an animist was 53,310

 

[Derric]

The reaver, animist, theurgist argument is getting a bit technical for me. I'm only a firbolg <grins>. Out of interest, I looked up in the roll of honour the last week realm points for the three classes. Last week realm points has to be some indication of how successful a class is against the enemy.

Highest last week realm points for a theurgist was 258,061
Highest last week realm points for a reaver was 250,645
Highest last week realm points for an animist was 53,310

I'll just quote this so you can figure out yourself what's odd with that line of reasoning. ;o

 

[Ilum]

animists in keep = suckeh
reavers anywhere = overpowered
theurgists = normal daoc class?

 

[Tristessa]

The reaver, animist, theurgist argument is getting a bit technical for me. I'm only a firbolg <grins>. Out of interest, I looked up in the roll of honour the last week realm points for the three classes. Last week realm points has to be some indication of how successful a class is against the enemy.

Highest last week realm points for a theurgist was 258,061
Highest last week realm points for a reaver was 250,645
Highest last week realm points for an animist was 53,310

Does this mean that theurgists are more overpowered than reavers and their bombs?...

 

[Sarumancer]

the reaver is there to show a "low played" class, or something.


If hibs have 25% of the population and Albs are 40%+, so lets say 1000 players...

Albs have 400 players
Hibs have 250 players


if 50% of each realm goes rvr, thats 200 albs and 125 hibs

if 1 in 10 hibs is an animist, thats 12 (rounding down)
if 1 in 10 albs is a theurgist thats 40


What am I proving or pointing out? Not a great deal, but theres roughly 4 theurgists to 1 animist in the pet spamming contest.


Now if we throw all of that into the mix, Albs can field roughly 2 to 1 odds over the hibs at any given time AND can spam pets increasing those odds in their favour. Hibernia uses animists to bump their numbers (somewhat) so they can compete.

Now in open field rvr, shrooms are damn near useless due to obscenely long cast times, low lifespan and all the various interrupts that can occur (never mind power use). Theurgist pets can take a player out of a fight, locking them into interupt hell the ice ones slow em so they cant get away, theyre a non static issue. In keep takes, shrooms, bar the main one, do not target the doors, only the main pet can take a swipe at the oil, and believe me, only a handful of animists even know they can use vertical Gt manipulation, the ones that DO know it, only a few of them can do it properly (Gatt, Awarkle and Peat/Boggy spring to mind), as sarumancer, I can do it a bit, but Ive not run that char in rvr, instead playing Druid (Cuchuluhain), Ranger (Siobhian) and an annoying pest of a luri chanter (45 light) Darimud.

Where was I?

Oh yea, the overpoweredness of animists in keep defences.

They arent, theyre entirely situational, buggy, glitchy, painful to use and lose 50% of the rps to the shrooms.

They ARE however, about the only way Hibs have to compete with the sheer numbers Albion can field against it. There have been dozens of suggested changes put to mythic about how to "fix" animists, stuff like limiting it to just the main pet, but letting it be mobile, making bombers fly like bolts (and return power to the caster if they dont hit). But mythic stubbornly insists "working as intended".

On the collary, shrooms have almost no hp anymore, their vertical range is crippled to being 1 player tall, their acquire and fire is slower, they still take obscene amounts of time to cast even fully buffed and toa'd and they suck power faster than rezzing Usp does. (yes I was the numpty in Nged yesterday keeping his hairy hide alive).

As for animists being the only thing to kill groups... pbaoe does itfaster, reaver bombs, sorcs can do it, bone dancers can do it.

Anyhow, its nice to see discussion, not flaming, lets continue, shall we.

 

[leviathane]

theurg pet spam> animst shroom spam , only thing bout animsts have in advantage is their pets do more dmg and can be put up in a certain area, therugs have to have a enemy targeted.

 

[willowywicca]

If hibs have 25% of the population and Albs are 40%+, so lets say 1000 players...

Albs have 400 players
Hibs have 250 players


if 50% of each realm goes rvr, thats 200 albs and 125 hibs

if 1 in 10 hibs is an animist, thats 12 (rounding down)
if 1 in 10 albs is a theurgist thats 40


What am I proving or pointing out? Not a great deal

Not proving much except that you can't even divide by 10

 

[Ilum]

but if you round it up, divide it by 33.9, multiple it by itself 7/2 times, you found out that hibs are wankers and animists are the devil!

 

[Leel]

We all know the answer is 42.

 

[Belisar]

I do find it odd that we are seeing complaints about animists so much, especially as the arguments go round in circles.

We still see people complain that ani's deliberately shroom in an untargetable location. Fact is that no one knows where those locations are until after the shroom is up and until the alb or middy comes and tries to target them. If you think they do why not rightnow it or ask a TL ? Or else why not roll and ani and try it ?

It is nice to see that peeps are agreeing that they are severly under-powered in most RvR situations. I agree that there is no balance there but if you nerf the one place they are useful and do not balance it elsewhere then the class is dead. That has already happened to a few Hib classes with NF (maybe other realms too).

There may be a few ani's who are active but compared to other classes 17 is not many. 17 anis, one of whom got over 50k rps suggests that none of them were on that much over the last week. How many rps do you get for wiping an alb bg ? As someone who has been in a few bg's I can honestly say there have been no more than 3 or 4 ani's on at any one time. We have said it before but you continually seem to disbelieve us. Although why we should care I am not sure.

Why moan about the one advantage hibs have. Albs have numerical superiority and it seems a willingness to stay up later than hibs. Maybe we should all roll ani's and forget our other classes, if they scare you so much that is all we need to do on any defense.

There has been some nice and educational comments about classes on this thread but lets stop going over the same arguments time and again which add no value and do not change things.

 

[willowywicca]

but lets stop going over the same arguments time and again which add no value and do not change things.

You new to FH then?

 

[Puppet]

My animist dinged 2L8 on Pbuck. Think he couldnt out-lag-strafe ze shrooms!

Think Im gonna keep my animist around me at keeps all the time and try to plant shrooms deliberatly in tricky LoS spots.

 

[Tristessa]

Not proving much except that you can't even divide by 10

Aye rofl, yet how convenient that he doubled the solution for the theurgists

 

[Sarumancer]

oh phuck me.

duh, typo.


alright, 10% of 200, is 20, not 40...

mea culpa, I screwed up, ya got me.



still 20 >> 12


even if 100% of the population went rvr, youd be 40>>25, animists give hibs a -small- way to redress being outnumbered (almost) 2 to 1 by albs or mids, the grievances with them, such as untargettable shrooms/clipping/los are almost invariably down to Mythic's code and their refusal to even consider alternatives/changes/balances.

the game is SUPPOSED to be set up so that you win 50% of your encounters against other players, but well, some people arent happy unless theyre winning 100% of the time, if you stripped animists from hib, I guess mids and albs would be overjoyed. Til Hibs were so crushed and over-run it became a 2 realm game.

Animists let hibs compete, they arent a "we win", as evidenced by the number of times we've managed to stave off Albs and Mids, and yet still, we get beaten.

 

[Tristessa]

the game is SUPPOSED to be set up so that you win 50% of your encounters against other players, but well, some people arent happy unless theyre winning 100% of the time, if you stripped animists from hib, I guess mids and albs would be overjoyed.

Hibs have given several good fights at keeps without the use of shrooms, where both sides have held up for a while. But it gets kinda frustrating after all that time on a keep for 1-2 animists to sneak inside and let the slaughter begin...
And also, do you mean that you are happy and all smiley when you get whiped in RvR? Coz thats kinda what yer saying. Every player in this game would prefer he wins rather than loses a fight and hardly doubt you can blame anyone for that. It's kinda common sense?

Think Im gonna keep my animist around me at keeps all the time and try to plant shrooms deliberatly in tricky LoS spots.

How lovely


Anyways, this is me last post for the year. Gotta get ready to catch me plane . Hope everyone has a merry merry X-Mas, and that the New Year finds ya all completely wasted at the best party of yer lives. See ya in 2005

 

[xxManiacxx]

And also, do you mean that you are happy and all smiley when you get whiped in RvR? Coz thats kinda what yer saying. Every player in this game would prefer he wins rather than loses a fight and hardly doubt you can blame anyone for that. It's kinda common sense?

I rather die in a even numbered fight then win by outnumbering.

 

[Luz]

why dont albs just take all relics and then be done with.

then you dont have to take a keep from us ever again and you can run around and be l33t and p0wn us with +20% bonuses to everything you do.

I dont see a problem here.

"Working as intended"

 

[Yma]

As a Mid I feel soooo left out from this babbling ... give us some spell of mass destruction too so we can whine and be whined like you

Bad GoA publishing 1.70 instead of 1.71, they better hurry before this becomes yet another one realm server (yes, this is bad for you too, avalonians and firbolgs, this game is as good as your enemies are):

Albion 24.5M lwrp, 2400 actives
Hibernia 15.8M lwrp, 1500 actives
Midgard 12.5M lwrp, 2000 actives

 

[Gahn]

Uhm

As a Mid I feel soooo left out from this babbling ... give us some spell of mass destruction too so we can whine and be whined like you

Bad GoA publishing 1.70 instead of 1.71, they better hurry before this becomes yet another one realm server (yes, this is bad for you too, avalonians and firbolgs, this game is as good as your enemies are):

Albion 24.5M lwrp, 2400 actives
Hibernia 15.8M lwrp, 1500 actives
Midgard 12.5M lwrp, 2000 actives

Out of curiosity got the average LWRP per player (not accurate ofc i dunno if 2400 actives takes in consideration every single players that logged on server even once or something else):

Albion 10.208,33 / player
Hibernia 10.533,33 / player
Midgard 6.250,00 / player

I suppose that's more a problem of real RvR activity or that Mids aren't well suited for Keep Warfare which seems the best activity rp earning wise atm

 

[xxManiacxx]

Mids are on the short end because we dont have a typical "keep zerg killer/destroyer etc" like albs with their reavers and hibs with their animists.

And I guess most got bored after the first 2 weeks and just cba to go to keeps anymore. I know I dont go there.

 

[VidX]

Mids are on the short end because we dont have a typical "keep zerg killer/destroyer etc" like albs with their reavers and hibs with their animists.

And I guess most got bored after the first 2 weeks and just cba to go to keeps anymore. I know I dont go there.

Mids have Trollum!

 

[nerfbbs]

I use dead hibs instead of toilet paper cos there heads r softer than Andrex

It was all going fine for albs until Stalky and the other reavers went to bed. I guess without being able to insta-kill the zerg, it was all too much.

I will respect the first hib i meet who doesnt immediately cast stun - o there arent any - and yes my reaver kills zergs with TWF but then i dont have 30 shrooms and i have to work so cant usually stay up till 3 am to take a keep with 3fgs at a time when other realm only has 26 players online in total and not all of them lvl 50

/stsa kills that earned rps 102 ur deaths 1 - and u didnt try to get thru power relic MG after my TWF pwned urzerg the first time such bravery after an all nighter and alarm clock keep takes

just w8ing for the qq when u lose ur realm bonus which isnt just based on populationbut performance - wonder how many unclaimed towers ull have when u gotta pay 1k / hour for lvl 10 and w8 forever for them to lvl up

enjoy while u can - which usually means during the scholl holidays

 

[Puppet]

just w8ing for the qq when u lose ur realm bonus which isnt just based on populationbut performance - wonder how many unclaimed towers ull have when u gotta pay 1k / hour for lvl 10 and w8 forever for them to lvl up

You do understand that the moment Hibs get into as bad-shape as Midgard there's not much to fight right ?

Not much to fight = server dies = no fun for all of us.

You should be happy Hibs perform as they do now; if you walked over us in the blink of an eye (like I expected due to shear population numbers on NF launch) there will be nothing left to fight over pretty much. Result : WOW we got 6 relics; Hibs and Albs cannot teleport; gosh I wonder why we can only fight NPC's now...

 

[VidX]

I will respect the first hib i meet who doesnt immediately cast stun - o there arent any - and yes my reaver kills zergs with TWF but then i dont have 30 shrooms and i have to work so cant usually stay up till 3 am to take a keep with 3fgs at a time when other realm only has 26 players online in total and not all of them lvl 50

eh?

Sure, I won't stun you if you don't slam me...

Your argument sorta dies there doesn't it?

Bit like asking an archer not to use their bow cause you can't hit them until in melee range, or a healer to not heal whatever you're hitting, or the dragon to not AE DD you...

If I wasn't to stun you, what would you do? Run to me, slam, then spam all the abilities you have in order to try killing me?

So you expect me to not use all my abilities to not kill you?

I will continue to use stun until SM pets stop intercepting, Reavers get their pb chant removed, Albs get spec AF removed, sojourners stop using PS when I MoC, Bonedancers stop lag-strafing and spamming the I-win button, Sorcs mezz range gets nerfed to the same range as the other 2 realms, I don't get interupted if something looks at me funny from 4 zones away, and when my pet actually follows me instead of running off to smell daisies.

 

[Darklis]

But Usp...

I hugged you with Snugglebot!

D xx

 

[fungus]

puppet give up just accept albs superiority.

Hail Albion

 

[Corran]

eh?

Sure, I won't stun you if you don't slam me...

Your argument sorta dies there doesn't it?

Bit like asking an archer not to use their bow cause you can't hit them until in melee range, or a healer to not heal whatever you're hitting, or the dragon to not AE DD you...

If I wasn't to stun you, what would you do? Run to me, slam, then spam all the abilities you have in order to try killing me?

So you expect me to not use all my abilities to not kill you?

I will continue to use stun until SM pets stop intercepting, Reavers get their pb chant removed, Albs get spec AF removed, sojourners stop using PS when I MoC, Bonedancers stop lag-strafing and spamming the I-win button, Sorcs mezz range gets nerfed to the same range as the other 2 realms, I don't get interupted if something looks at me funny from 4 zones away, and when my pet actually follows me instead of running off to smell daisies.

Think that this is his point. People say reavers should stop bombing yet they merely using all their abilities like you use all yours. So if you stop using your i-win buttons then start complaining about reavers using theirs THEN you got a case to argue. till then you do not.

And sure, give sorc normal range mezz, but in return i want to be able to wear plate armour on him and get an insta mezz. Afteral bolt range mezz is our only stong advantage in relation to the other mezzing classes. Yes we got a lifetap but that no good if mezzed or inturupted.

 

[VidX]

But Usp...

I hugged you with Snugglebot!

D xx

/hug

 

[Ovi1]

And sure, give sorc normal range mezz, but in return i want to be able to wear plate armour on him and get an insta mezz. Afteral bolt range mezz is our only stong advantage in relation to the other mezzing classes. Yes we got a lifetap but that no good if mezzed or inturupted.

So you want a bard but with 2 steps better armour, and all the existing Sorc abilites? Sounds reasonable to be, may as well let Theurgs spam shrooms too while we are at it, give paladin's pbt, give Clerics pets & AoE insta stun (Don't want only hibs abilities afterall ...), and the list goes on