Take that albs!

Corran

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
6,180
Ovi1 said:
So you want a bard but with 2 steps better armour, and all the existing Sorc abilites? Sounds reasonable to be, may as well let Theurgs spam shrooms too while we are at it, give paladin's pbt, give Clerics pets & AoE insta stun (Don't want only hibs abilities afterall ...), and the list goes on :p

hmm, too be a bard i need buffs, i need end regen, i need mach 5, i need more health .. so im nothing like a bard.

Tell me. You remove bolt range mezz from a sorc and what you got? A target you can insta mezz and kill in 2combat rounds as it got the weakest armour and low health. If you want a class to be different then you got to expect them to be strong in some area's, weak in others. Sorc got a good mezz however without moc (many dont have it now as it kinda crap) they get to cast 1 spell every 30seconds when you begin to hit them.
 

VidX

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
589
Corran said:
hmm, too be a bard i need buffs, i need end regen, i need mach 5, i need more health .. so im nothing like a bard.

Tell me. You remove bolt range mezz from a sorc and what you got? A target you can insta mezz and kill in 2combat rounds as it got the weakest armour and low health. If you want a class to be different then you got to expect them to be strong in some area's, weak in others. Sorc got a good mezz however without moc (many dont have it now as it kinda crap) they get to cast 1 spell every 30seconds when you begin to hit them.
And they stand there and laugh as you hit them for 5 damage as their lvl 70 fully buffed pet kills you.
 

Belisar

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
357
Corran said:
If you want a class to be different then you got to expect them to be strong in some area's, weak in others.

Hhhmm sorry to say this but it sounds like the same argument could be used by animists. They are pretty poor in anything other than keep defense and yet I still hear the cries of nerf echoing around the frontiers.

As for normal range mezz - my view (and I appreciate you may not agree) is that the extra range is a distinct advantage, probably more than end (not many tanks in NF now), speed (which you lose in combat) and health (I still get stunned and 2 shotted).

I guess we are never gonna agree on what would be fair as we do not play each other's realm often enough to see the other side.
 

Sarumancer

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
May 15, 2004
Messages
122
animists arent even that strong in keep defences....

all they have is shrooms, the equivalent of popping up npcs, and thanks to mythics fabulous (again with the sarcasm) theyre not that much of a punishment any more.


Quick query for you.

Once a Theurg casts a pet at a target, be it a mob, player or door, are they still considered as "in combat", or can they quaff potions, sit in fops / use mcl at will once the pet is cast? Animists get stuck 'in combat' when they put up a fnf (or tangler, or debuffer) and as such cannot use fop/crack to keep up a spam of shrooms. So Im just kind of curious...

ps /pie for all, except luwis.
 

Leleith

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
215
nerfbbs said:
I will respect the first hib i meet who doesnt immediately cast stun - o there arent any - and yes my reaver kills zergs with TWF but then i dont have 30 shrooms and i have to work so cant usually stay up till 3 am to take a keep with 3fgs at a time when other realm only has 26 players online in total and not all of them lvl 50

just w8ing for the qq when u lose ur realm bonus which isnt just based on populationbut performance - wonder how many unclaimed towers ull have when u gotta pay 1k / hour for lvl 10 and w8 forever for them to lvl up

enjoy while u can - which usually means during the scholl holidays

You, my friend, should have stayed in "scholl".

I quite often get annoyed at how few times it really is that hibs seem to be using its stun, compared to what it could, and should be. I use mine more or less on every target when playing my mentalist. But too many times i see people just stand there, nuking, and their target just strafes behind something or backs off long enough to go out of range. It becomes very obvious when im playing my animist and im nuking the same target as an eld/chanter/ment. Not to mention how many times a non stunned target have got a whole clump mezzed thanks to a quick-cast.

nerfbbs said:
"and u didnt try to get thru power relic MG after my TWF pwned urzerg the first time such bravery after an all nighter and alarm clock keep takes"

Playing from work?
 

Luz

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 31, 2004
Messages
231
So I played a druid just now, havent done in long. I was fully buffed +25% toa and caped resists and resists buffed by myself and warden.. hade more then 2000 hp! life is good!
we are like 5 fg here! and I am safe at this fop can heal some and watch the flowers. life is good!

Mezed!
*PURGE*
"#!%&
1#&!/
!#%&/
dead in 3 seconds! (before my purge1 got me free) WOW that must been some super MA-train!! people that have skills!, no wait it was 1fg and a "reaverbomb", one char killed 3fg or so and in 3 seconds! wow, I feel this game is fair and this made up for all the NF stress I´ve had and brought the game right back to the fun ! Yippii..

but who am I to complain I have an animist so I just log him and instakill 50 people, because in any fun onlinegame ONE person must be able to kill hundreds. yepp, exactly the same. when people aproach me I make shrooms and insta kill SEVERAL fg´s at once. it´s quite amazing
 

Leleith

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
215
Corran said:
And sure, give sorc normal range mezz, but in return i want to be able to wear plate armour on him and get an insta mezz. Afteral bolt range mezz is our only stong advantage in relation to the other mezzing classes. Yes we got a lifetap but that no good if mezzed or inturupted.

And what have the bards got when they are mezzed or interrupted? Lets say they have used their insta (which albs seem to think both healers and bards can cast to the left and right, all the time, without any thought about timers). A sorc atleast got quick-cast. With that he can (atleast try to) get away by using a quickcasted root or mezz, sprint away and start to cast cc/dd again. A bards best shot would be to try to sprint away (which a sorc can do just as well if hes got a paladin in the group) or pull his weapon out and start bashing his target and hope it will die, so the bard is free again to cc and heal and play the songs for his group. And lets face it, not even with 50 spec in weapon will that ever happend. And from what ive heard, bards endsong stops if he gets hit. I dont have a bard myself, so i dont if that is true. Either now or ever. But be sure that if he DID use his weapon, not would only his group go ooe quite fast, but as would he. Which kinda kills that idea once again.

To be perfectly honest, i would rather see the sorc mezz replaced with an insta, than their current mezz. Noone would be happier than me if that actually happened.

Edit: And let bards and healers (as the main cc:ers) be dexterous races as elfs, luris and kobolds as well, and let them train dex as secondary stat. kthxbye!

Swing it, magistern! Swing it!
 

leviathane

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 26, 2003
Messages
7,704
Leleith said:
To be perfectly honest, i would rather see the sorc mezz replaced with an insta, than their current mezz. Noone would be happier than me if that actually happened.
sounds like a crap idea to me, as then it'd be even easier for the fotm sorc's to play an spam the insta mezz button til its back up. Part of being a sorc is the skill of actually getting of a succesful mezz, always has always will be.
 

UndyingAngel

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
1,957
Luz said:
So I played a druid just now, havent done in long. I was fully buffed +25% toa and caped resists and resists buffed by myself and warden.. hade more then 2000 hp! life is good!
we are like 5 fg here! and I am safe at this fop can heal some and watch the flowers. life is good!

Mezed!
*PURGE*
"#!%&
1#&!/
!#%&/
dead in 3 seconds! (before my purge1 got me free) WOW that must been some super MA-train!! people that have skills!, no wait it was 1fg and a "reaverbomb", one char killed 3fg or so and in 3 seconds! wow, I feel this game is fair and this made up for all the NF stress I´ve had and brought the game right back to the fun ! Yippii..

but who am I to complain I have an animist so I just log him and instakill 50 people, because in any fun onlinegame ONE person must be able to kill hundreds. yepp, exactly the same. when people aproach me I make shrooms and insta kill SEVERAL fg´s at once. it´s quite amazing

its not like hibs dont / havnt doent the same with pbaoe grps.. ?
iv seen 1/2fg hibs take out an entire relic forse with the old MoC let ite rest at least reaver bomb can only do 15(?) ppl at a time. and you dont have your insta win grp purge get over it imho. you can also make sure all the ppl in your grp has purge 2 ? so you can leg it.. if you only have purge 1 that your own problem if you get butched b4 it runs out. :m00:

I mean I play a pala fgs I get my 2182 HP take off me in about 10s and I have AoM5 do you think thats fair :eek:?
 

Luz

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 31, 2004
Messages
231
sorry I dont listen to arguments about reavers

Was hoping before NF that something would change but things are same if not worse. Any online game where you can die in 1.8 seconds are just leading to frustration (no not just reavers, casters in generall).

I´d like to see a solo pbaoe class (in a grp but doing dmg himself) do what a SOLO reaver does.
 

Gahn

Resident Freddy
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Messages
5,056
Uhm

Less staying packed outside a tower/keep to avoid qq of Reavers tbh dear realmm8s :)
 

Puppet

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
3,232
Complaining about sorcs have the weakest armour is also total bullshit (!)

Albion cloth-wearers can get a spec-AF from their buffbots which yields em (with TOA gear) about the same AF as reinforced/studded armour from Mid/Hib.

They get lower absorb (10% vs 19%) but are not weak to any damage-type in return which is a BIG plus; ask any player who played in Mid reinforced or Hib scale for example with their slash-weakness :/

Sorcs complaining about armours is rather silly anyhow; their RR5 RA makes em practically immune to melee; not uncommon to hit em for 10~ with it up; that sorc is unkillable by *ANY* melee if he has a semi-awake cleric. You got access to PD too as sorc to reduce your 'weakness' as cloth-wearer (rather useless as you are RR5+ tho).

The weakest armour in game is the leather-variants; I hit most leather-wearers for more damage then Alb-casters with spec-AF.
 

Darzil

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Messages
2,651
Sarumancer said:
Quick query for you.

Once a Theurg casts a pet at a target, be it a mob, player or door, are they still considered as "in combat", or can they quaff potions, sit in fops / use mcl at will once the pet is cast? Animists get stuck 'in combat' when they put up a fnf (or tangler, or debuffer) and as such cannot use fop/crack to keep up a spam of shrooms. So Im just kind of curious...

Yes, they are in combat until all the pets are dead.

Darzil
 

Corran

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
6,180
Sarumancer said:
animists arent even that strong in keep defences....

all they have is shrooms, the equivalent of popping up npcs, and thanks to mythics fabulous (again with the sarcasm) theyre not that much of a punishment any more.


Quick query for you.

Once a Theurg casts a pet at a target, be it a mob, player or door, are they still considered as "in combat", or can they quaff potions, sit in fops / use mcl at will once the pet is cast? Animists get stuck 'in combat' when they put up a fnf (or tangler, or debuffer) and as such cannot use fop/crack to keep up a spam of shrooms. So Im just kind of curious...

ps /pie for all, except luwis.

Against mobs/players then the theurg in combat till they dead. So no fop etc works on them.

Against doors etc they are NOT in combat and as such they can spam till heart is content from within a fop. This is the area that makes theurg powerful at keeps/towers. They just stand back and get pets attacking doors so they fall a bit quicker.
 

Corran

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
6,180
When inturupted bards have got insta (if it is up) as well as that they can go in melee. They got more health and better armour so survivability is higher. Now this aint perfect but it more then what a sorc has. (negatives = insta on longer timer then qc, can stop secondary affects on rest of group, lower dex!?)

Sorc has ... quickcast, (negatives = lower health, worse armour and as such survivability is lower)

Im not going to get into the rr5 ability because 1) not all sorc are RR5, 2) not always up. 3) bard one quite nice so that no one knows where the git is unless they look more carefully. (which should do but we are albs :p )

Healer ... insta mezz, insta heals (all be it not the best) good armour, good health. (negatives lower dex, longer timer on insta)

...........

PUPPET, you always talking about Spec af. Well you cant always have it. Often my sorc runs with just self af buff because the clerics are ooc. And mids/hibs could always take a potion if it that big of an issue. It not as good but it takes alot of the advantage away. And btw, i dont own a buffbot so i rely on friends buffing my sorc, if i dont have buffs then i die in about 2 shots from decent archer.

.......

USP, if i relied on pet to kill anything even after using the ml9 ability i would be screwed, it is overpowered on certain pets (AoE nuking drake for example, that due to its size when it walks to a tower/keep it can actually nuke from outside for 200-300 a time). Most the time the pet is there just to add a bit of dmg or inturupt someone. You know, like all the hib/ mid pets that aint busy chain healing or intercepting


Yes my view will be biased as im an alb. As will others. However even though how powerful sorc CAN be, doesnt mean they are. There alot of negatives to it that can be taken advantage of by people that know what they are doing. Afteral, if a sorc uses his rr5 ability and you cant melee him to death, just pet him so he can barely cast then go kill another target. Aint hard.
 

Puppet

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
3,232
Im sorry but if you go 'bards can melee', 'some people are unbuffed' and 'bard RR5 RA is quite nice' when we compare it to the sorc RA any discussion is really useless.

I might aswell say sorcs can melee.

I mean be reasonable: Normal RvR: Buffed, bards dont go melee (neither do sorcs in practice) and the sorc RR5 RA is melee immune in fg-fights for the duration of it.

I mean lets not get into the typical 'Its possible for a sorc to spec not for AE mezz too!' bullshit. Whenever I play my tiny sorc in Thidranki (yes; not full blown RvR) im always amazed with the tools he has:

* STR/CON debuff
* DEX/QUI debuff (both AE) <-- depending on spec one is better then the other ofcourse
* Baseline STR,DEX debuffs
* Cure mezz
* Strong lifetap which casts rapidly
* Uber range AE mezz
* Spammable amnesia
* Yellowcon pet
* Mezz dampening
* Run speed buff
* Root
* Crack-spell

Sorc has so much utility its very comparable to a bard BUT it also has sickening damage. Add some masterlevels and RA's and you can reliably kill trio's and such..

Sorc = best class overall in game at the moment IMO. Lifetap means you can reliably heal yourselves pretty fast (after a fight LT a mob and full hp again), Crack means less downtime for mana-regen and you got the tools to kill fast.

If Hibernia had a sorcerer-class I would immediatly roll one. Unfortunaly we got the mentalist-class which is like a watered down sorcerer in practice :/
 

chretien

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
1,079
Puppet said:
If Hibernia had a sorcerer-class I would immediatly roll one. Unfortunaly we got the mentalist-class which is like a watered down sorcerer in practice :/
So it's a bit like the Wizard which is like a watered down Enchanter you mean?

Sorcerors have good utility, they don't nuke as hard as proper nukers, their strengths are CC and debuffs. Compared to the primary CCers in other realms they have advantages and disadvantages. I know I'd rather have a Pac healer than a Sorc as my CCer for example - he's got most of the toys you mention plus some heals, buffs, chain armour and a high con race to choose from.

Don't get hung up on spec af either. The best is at 44 spec so only available to buffbot spec clerics. Good guild groups will have it in alb but the majority won't - just as good guild groups in other realms will have spec haste or endurance regen while the majority won't. If I'm playing my cleric and buffing all or most of the group myself, then no-one is getting spec af usually.
 

Puppet

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
3,232
chretien said:
So it's a bit like the Wizard which is like a watered down Enchanter you mean?

No, the wizard is a watered down eldritch if you wanna get into details :D Tho wizard suffers more due to the fact there's more casters in Albion. Ofcourse it aint gonna happen but it would be better if Albion lost 1 caster and they spread the abilities abit around the remaining 3 (not including necro btw). Its like 'Oki we got 3 casters now, but we forgot the wizard; throw him some crap and we be done'.

Sorcerors have good utility, they don't nuke as hard as proper nukers, their strengths are CC and debuffs. Compared to the primary CCers in other realms they have advantages and disadvantages. I know I'd rather have a Pac healer than a Sorc as my CCer for example - he's got most of the toys you mention plus some heals, buffs, chain armour and a high con race to choose from.

They dont nuke as hard a proper nukers: Sorcerers are very capable of 4-shotting my ranger nowadays. I guess wizards can 3-shot him; but honestly its more or less (to me; as non-nuker class) SUPER overpowered compared to MEGA-SUPER DUPER overpowered if you know what I mean :D


Don't get hung up on spec af either. The best is at 44 spec so only available to buffbot spec clerics. Good guild groups will have it in alb but the majority won't - just as good guild groups in other realms will have spec haste or endurance regen while the majority won't. If I'm playing my cleric and buffing all or most of the group myself, then no-one is getting spec af usually.

Perhaps Im an exception; but in the groups I run there's always ATLEAST 1 buffbot; most often 2 or more. I imagine its the same for serious RvR-groups on Albion (and Midgard). Buffbots are the rule; not the exception. Can argue if thats fun or not; but its the reality.
 

Garok

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
777
Puppet said:
Im sorry but if you go 'bards can melee', 'some people are unbuffed' and 'bard RR5 RA is quite nice' when we compare it to the sorc RA any discussion is really useless.

I might aswell say sorcs can melee.

I mean be reasonable: Normal RvR: Buffed, bards dont go melee (neither do sorcs in practice) and the sorc RR5 RA is melee immune in fg-fights for the duration of it.

I mean lets not get into the typical 'Its possible for a sorc to spec not for AE mezz too!' bullshit. Whenever I play my tiny sorc in Thidranki (yes; not full blown RvR) im always amazed with the tools he has:

* STR/CON debuff
* DEX/QUI debuff (both AE) <-- depending on spec one is better then the other ofcourse
* Baseline STR,DEX debuffs
* Cure mezz
* Strong lifetap which casts rapidly
* Uber range AE mezz
* Spammable amnesia
* Yellowcon pet
* Mezz dampening
* Run speed buff
* Root
* Crack-spell

Sorc has so much utility its very comparable to a bard BUT it also has sickening damage. Add some masterlevels and RA's and you can reliably kill trio's and such..

Sorc = best class overall in game at the moment IMO. Lifetap means you can reliably heal yourselves pretty fast (after a fight LT a mob and full hp again), Crack means less downtime for mana-regen and you got the tools to kill fast.

If Hibernia had a sorcerer-class I would immediatly roll one. Unfortunaly we got the mentalist-class which is like a watered down sorcerer in practice :/

Mentalist is still a very powerfull caster :p

# Orange con pet (higher than Sorc and not limited to certain types like mini)
# 209 Nuke against Albs who mostly are with out Yellow/Red heat buffs and only 0.3 secs slower than LT
#Nice Aeo Fire nuke
#Long Duration Single Line Mezz
#Healing Spells
#Remove mezz
#PoT
#Base line 9 Sec Stun ;<<<
#RA OP against Casters and Tanks. (Pop it and heal your self back up)
 

Corran

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
6,180
Never once said they havent got alot of utility. They are by far one the classes with most utility in the game. Especially in albion as most our over classes are watered down versions of other realms.

however, the whole point of this starting is the comment that sorc should shouldnt have bolt range mezz. Sure without it they will still be decent class, however as you stated almost all sorc will spec for some version of the mezz as thats the main job. Now, if you take away bolt range mezz they will in theory lose every mezz battle as they will just be insta'd. They will die quicker then any other realms mezzing class (unless they rr5 AND it is up) because of weaker armour and lower health. This means even if they do get an insta mezz, they wont get a chance to get it off on the optimal targets because they will come out of mezz and die rather fast (no point insta on a tank)

Oh, and sure they get str/con and dex/quick debuff but they on the same timer (all be it only 5 seconds) however they also break mezz on pets which means you instantly zerged by them when you do so.

Spamming amnesia, it good in certain situations (ie old time moc pbaoe groups) however at times i would like insta amnesia, especially if it comes to sorc not having bolt mezz. a decent bard will ALWAYS win mezz battle that way. moment sorc starts to cast hit amnesia and then cast theirself and should never lose battle. In theory bards shouldnt lose battle as is, but timing has to be very good (people need to learn from redb)

Baseline debuffs, kinda pointless tbh unless 1vs1. Not put them back on my qb when returned tbh. Power eating spell and with spec aoe debuffs there little need for them.

Run speed buff, is nice, however it the only speed in most alb groups now as mini has no real place alot of time. Much nicer to have mach5 on best realms mezz'r.

Mezz dampening, Very nice, though need to spec for it, and not many have decent group dampening (5% mostly) and then if they only sorc they cant use this anyways as they running speed. But for self use if spec'd a decent amount of mezz it is very nice (40% iirc). Free det on caster class, however no good when a decent group kills you first (which they will do easily if they remove bolt mezz given amnesia etc stopping sorc ever whinning battle)

Crack, very good though little over rated at times. Good in rvr but then with 3minute mcl and powerfonts you rarely need it.

Yellow con pet- need to spec for it once again. Some really nice pets out there but castable pets are often better. Afteral, if sorc dies they need to find a new pet, if sm/bd/chanter die they merely cast them, maybe lower con but alot easier. I often end up with green/blue pets just because i would need to run ages to get them. In a keep battle if i die then i wont have a pet for the rest of the seige.

Cure mezz, handy when not dead. Once more if you go to the idea of removing bolt range and leaving rest of sorc as is then no good as you be dead before you get to use it.

Lifetap- yes it is powerful, though not the greatest dmg(but very good considering it a cc class), but overtime it is deadly like any spell. The fast casting is what makes this so good though i agree.

As for the RR5 ability. As i said before, IF you got it then it sickening if you ever are being melee'd but now days that not too often. However when you are and it used it absorbs way to much dmg. Just the other night i was suiciding, archer attacks me so i used it to moc lifetap (got it as been solo alot) and ns pa'd me for 19 dmg mainhand. Quite sickening at how little dmg it done. IF it was working how originally planned (ie no moving or casting) then it would be fine. It just the fact that combined with moc it is increadably stupid.

And as for solo a trio, sure you can if all abilities up and know what you doing. Hell It is possible to solo a fg with a pet, however it very rare. Got to win mezz, none them can purge, got to pick right target, got to know when to get root in. need to pet right people if mezz ends and caster/healer still alive. etc, etc. oh and enemy gotta be kinda stupid to allow it. But then their other classes that can solo 4-8 people in other realms IF the enemy are clueless.

Hmm, this post went on alot but nevermind. Hell you still will pick up something i missed. But all in all, i sum up my thoughts. for you puppet.

Sorc is by far the best CC class at the moment.

BUT

Remove bolt range mezz and it becomes the weakest class due to fact you mix in the various insta's enemy got all on their cc class, (amnesia, mezz on bard or heals/stun/mezz on healer) along with the lower health, lesser armour etc of the sorc then you see that their would need to be amendments made to other areas of the sorc.

Tell me, would you be willing to see the sorc made stronger in other areas if you remove their 1 true advantage at the moment? Give them an insta stun? or insta amnesia as well as their castable amnesia? A insta lifetap to compensate less health and armour and no advantage else where? or anything in fact? Likely the answer be know, as to make them more powerful somewhere will just be followed by more crys to weaken them once again.
 

Ovi1

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Apr 26, 2004
Messages
188
Corran,

Most of your arguement is based on one assumption, losing Bolt Range mezz will lose you the Mezzing war. Whereas I believe it would just make the mezzing war fairer.

If we consider the goal to be first mezz then If ranges are equal Sorc will cast first, due to much higher dex and, with QC, is much less likely to be interputed.

Insta Lul can sometimes stop a Sorc casting due to the fact if it lands half way through a casting it doesn't stop it :(
 

Corran

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
6,180
Ovi1 said:
Corran,

Most of your arguement is based on one assumption, losing Bolt Range mezz will lose you the Mezzing war. Whereas I believe it would just make the mezzing war fairer.

If we consider the goal to be first mezz then If ranges are equal Sorc will cast first, due to much higher dex and, with QC, is much less likely to be interputed.

Insta Lul can sometimes stop a Sorc casting due to the fact if it lands half way through a casting it doesn't stop it :(

My arguement is based on losing bolt range mezz loses the sorc the one thing it has above the other 2 mezzing classes that all in all have got much greater advantage when you meet close.

Insta lull on a good bard will always prevent the sorc winning the mezz. Dont matter how good that sorc is, there is no winning that battle. So in fg vs fg fight between 2 good groups then sorc wont win the mezz war. It would be fairer if had same range, yes. However sorc will need something to aid them in the war which the other 2 realms alreayd have on their cc class.

Good hibs meet good albs. Bard insta lull then casts mezz. sorc just tries to cast mezz. Hibs win mezz war.

Good mids meet good albs. Healer insta stuns followed by mezz. sorc tries to cast mezz. Mids win the mezz war.

You see my point? If left as is other then using a poor excuse of an insta. The albs will always lose the mezz war. All it takes is the opponents being competiant at what they doing, And already their some groups that use said tactics already and win the mezz battle. So take away bolt and that makes it easier to do so, as such more people be able to do it. This is the reason why i state that sorc would require something which aids them to win mezz battles OR increase their survivability.

And before you say about mids not using stun due to immunity. When the changes to immunity timers come in then it will be have less effect. Afteral they can just cast a low level stun so the immunity time is near non existant. Then simply cast the mezz after. By time mezz runs out so has the stun immunity. And as changes to sorc class would be made after this then it has to also be taken into consideration the new tactics enemy would use.
 

Ketinna

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
May 12, 2004
Messages
153
Tristessa said:
Comparing a sorc that two-shots 1 individual, to an animist that can wipe entire groups with bugged pets... Sorry but I don't think there's a comparison... Do you? :p

yeah since its so impossible to mess the pets i mean the sorce has 2000 range and the pets has 2200 range...right?
 

willowywicca

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
607
Ovi1 said:
If we consider the goal to be first mezz then If ranges are equal Sorc will cast first, due to much higher dex and, with QC, is much less likely to be interputed.

Err, those two things are mutually exclusive.. qc has a fixed 2 seconds cast no matter what, high dex can't speed up a qc. and if sorcs opens with a slow 2 sec qc mez, he's guaranteed to lose and be mezzed first (and yes, being mezzed or stunned does stop you casting a mezz back :p )
 

Sarumancer

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
May 15, 2004
Messages
122
Mushroom range is 1000 units -from the animist- on the controlled shroom (or was it 1500, need to login and check that)


FNFs have a target and hit range of 1000 horizontally and 250 in the vertical arc and they can only be cast within 500 units of the animist, so technically you can be gotten at by shrooms within 1500 units of the animist.

Bolt range mez is 2000+, bow shot range is around 2000 also

toa range bonuses dont effect shrooms, only bombers (fun that little bug that, aint it, along with resist piercing).
 

Leleith

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
215
Garok said:
Mentalist is still a very powerfull caster :p

# Orange con pet (higher than Sorc and not limited to certain types like mini)
# 209 Nuke against Albs who mostly are with out Yellow/Red heat buffs and only 0.3 secs slower than LT
#Nice Aeo Fire nuke
#Long Duration Single Line Mezz
#Healing Spells
#Remove mezz
#PoT
#Base line 9 Sec Stun ;<<<
#RA OP against Casters and Tanks. (Pop it and heal your self back up)

# Orange con pet (higher than Sorc and not limited to certain types like mini)

You have to spec high in light to be able to run with an orange pet safely in rvr. And with high, i mean past 45, where we get our last specline spell. Ive got 45+11+realm rank bonus, and im still having troubles with the rare yellow. Oranges are a no-no. Used to be able to hold them fairly well with my 48+11+rr, but since the NF patch, i respeced down a bit. Not to mention i lose the pet after 1 resisted pulse (which is supposed to be 2 failed in a row, not just 1). Resulting in pet starting to hit me and im going into combat and losing speed, etc. That happends alot after the release of NF for some reason (same thing in the US, and there dont seem to be a fix to it anytime soon). Whats even worse, is that it seems to be harder to hold lower pets, than one closer to your own level. I seem to be able to hold a yellow even better than a low blue or green one (2 thumbs up, mythic!). Its on limited range. If pet goes oor, charm breaks and it comes running for me. Sorcs dont seem to have a range limit on their pet from what i have seen. If pets start to hit hit me in fights, it often results in me biting the dust. Or, if im lucky (next bug inc people!) i MIGHT be able to quickcast charm again, to re-charm it. That doent seem to work from time to time. Yet another known bug. And not to mention our charm costing power. From being limited to humanoid mobs only with 1 power tick/puls, upwards each charm until being able to charm any type of mobs, which costs 7 power each pulse. And i dont need to mention the whole thing about pathing vs running with a charmed pet, do i? More often than not resulting in pet going oor, and me oos. etc, etc...

#Long Duration Single Line Mezz

That one is not baseline. Its in mentalism specline, which is actually known for being THE worst specline in the entire game. Even mythic admited they arent satisfied with this specline.

#Healing Spells

Baseline. Unless you spec mentalism, which you never do, other than as sidespec. My mentalist heals for 291 at its best i think. Its nice at times, agreed, but very, very rarely a lifesaver. Wouldnt mind seeing something else being changed for this one. The other healing spell is the HoT. Its a VERY, VERY nice spell. Especially in PvE and in downtimes, when need to rest up in RvR, like inside keeps and such when you have lost hp. That spell isnt that effective on a target thats being nuked at the same time though.

#Remove mezz

Once again, mentalism specline im afriad.

#PoT

with that one, i assume you mean the power regen, ie crack? It comes in mana spec. A nice line, but that leaves you without any specnukes or pets that would even be worth spending any time to even mention

You took spells from all our 6 lines. Baselines and speclines there. The ones puppet wrote down, were all baselines and spells from the "mind"-line alone, which is a common spec. Correct me if im wrong. Its really nice to see all the love sorcs got, while mentalists got none in ages and ages. Those 2 classes are meant to be somewhat equal to eachother. Both casters on cloth with many similar spells and abilties to mezz, charm, nuke, demezz and crack people. Dont get me wrong though. I like my mentalist, at times... If they could just once and for all FIX the damn charm :twak:

Chill out!
 

Corran

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
6,180
Leleith You took spells from all our 6 lines. Baselines and speclines there. The ones puppet wrote down said:
Puppet took it from 2 baselines and 2 speclines. dex/qui and root are body spec lines. But that just being picky :D
 

Garok

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
777
Forgot to add Ments get access to ST which no other caster gets which is an evil Behach of a RA ...

Agree with you on the mana issue with the pet though was annoying cost should be removed. But over all found it to be semi balanced compaired to Sorc/Mini. Mine was spec'd 46 Light 4 Mana 28 Ment which i guess is a pretty standard spec.

Imo Mentalist has about the right amount of utility a class should have to be effective. In an common Alb Group Sorc is generally, Damage Dealer, Main and secondary CC (Aoe Mezz and Root) and secondary Demezz, and if they are doing one thing the cant be doing another so that area ends up lacking.

Mentalist I guess is abit like a Therg is in Alb, under valued in comparision to the realms other casters (Sorc,Cabby,Chanter,Eld).
 

Maeloch

Part of the furniture
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
2,392
At least 95% of sorcs don't use anything but lifetap and aoe mezz, even tho they got utility coming out their arse, it helps that no one can play em proper. ;)

They are somewhere between overpowered and a very strong class depending where u stand.

Ments aren't a primary CC class, have never been a fixture in a hib grp setup and therefore will never be a priority for any luuvin soon (I never remember in 2+ years of playing getting any luv 'cept demezz at 28 mentalism spec).

That said, we aren't too bad really, the ML path is nice if only for the pbaoe pet FO, ST pretty solid RA option, and spec DD and AoE DD on same class for keep warfare is cool also. We never was that bad, just stacked next to sorcs it's a joke.

Oh yeah, ML9 sorcs can fuck off. It's taken me ages to get close to rr10 where I can hold 56-60th red con pets 'okay'. Every fucking rerolling noob running about with 70th lvl pets, hope it gets nerfed...

In the meantime, those ML9 pets are charmable after u die, so i look forward killin u some more for the ML9 trophies ;).

Mael, 50th ment.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom