Politics So...Europe then?

[Scouse]

They never were subject to uncertainty.

Fucks sake. I know a lot of EU nationals who with GB partners who are having an awful time with the uncertainty. I can't believe you're pretending it's not an issue when you've been told directly by someone on the forum that it IS an issue.

I know you're blinkered totally by some weird love of nation but jeezuz christ you lack any empathy whatsoever.

 

[Job]

If you are living in another country there is always a certain amount of insecurity...the good news is the UK is by far the most tolerant, law abiding and inclusive country in Europe...so no one is going to be thrown out, it took us decades to evict a fucking terrorist supporting ashhole to the States, because again..we are a shining light of liberalism on the planet.
The world Scouse builds in his head in 90% student union angst, he attacks on the most simplistic terms people he sees as bad guys in a level of reaction on par with with pantomine audiences, while browsing the shelves of Holland and Barret with a greenpeace 20% off voucher.
Its all very sincere, but the mistakes he makes on judging the human condition are as bad as any I have made.
Insert facepalm.

 

[Scouse]

Or we could have done the right thing and told everyone "don't worry, we've got your back, we're glad you're here"...

...but we didn't.

 

[DaGaffer]

You will have sources too then?!

Or?

Rampant panic in the idiot media doesn't count as a source, btw.

I think its comes down to brain farts on social media again. Some fuckwit starts on about OMG I MIGHT GET KICKED OUT BOOH HOO

Some idiots "like" it or whatever.

It suddenly becomes a thing in the vapour chamber.

Meanwhile, government are all, wait mates, we literally haven't even commented on it, let alone decided anything. Chill hte fuck out.

Idiots on facebook: OMG we are doomed OMG.

Theresa May Refuses To Guarantee Rights Of EU Citizens If There Is No Brexit Deal

Theresa May 'is telling EU citizens to leave the country'

Tory backlash as Theresa May fails to guarantee EU citizens' rights

Davis Pushed May to Guarantee EU Citizens Rights

Brexit: EU citizens in UK will have to join special register, but rules won't apply to Irish

Left-leaning, right-leaning, domestic, foreign. Claiming there was never any uncertainty about citizens rights to remain is fucking ludicrous. You've got May in person the radio on one of those links refusing to commit to guarantee rights. Even now, while there's "agreement to move forward" it still doesn't actually mean anything until a deal is signed.

 

[Raven]

Theresa May Refuses To Guarantee Rights Of EU Citizens If There Is No Brexit Deal

Theresa May 'is telling EU citizens to leave the country'

Tory backlash as Theresa May fails to guarantee EU citizens' rights

Davis Pushed May to Guarantee EU Citizens Rights

Brexit: EU citizens in UK will have to join special register, but rules won't apply to Irish

Left-leaning, right-leaning, domestic, foreign. Claiming there was never any uncertainty about citizens rights to remain is fucking ludicrous. You've got May in person the radio on one of those links refusing to commit to guarantee rights. Even now, while there's "agreement to move forward" it still doesn't actually mean anything until a deal is signed.

mmm. Yet at no point has anyone said they would need to leave. Looking for a reciprocal deal as part of negotiations (people do understand the concept of a negotiation...right? and the fact they work both-ways...right???) The EU refused to guarantee rights too, even though everyone with half a brain cell will tell you, nobody needs to worry.

...and as it turns out, nobody needs to worry.

 

[Ormorof]

I have family and friends who live in UK that are unceetain about wjat the hell is going to happen, you can say "lol idiots" all you like bit does not change the reality for these people

Until it is in law there is uncertainty, that's what they are worried about (people who pay tax but cant vote to influence this...)

On the flip side we have taken advantage of the uncertainty too, EU nationals in UK are are a prime target for recruitment for us

 

[DaGaffer]

mmm. Yet at no point has anyone said they would need to leave. Looking for a reciprocal deal as part of negotiations (people do understand the concept of a negotiation...right? and the fact they work both-ways...right???) The EU refused to guarantee rights too, even though everyone with half a brain cell will tell you, nobody needs to worry.

...and as it turns out, nobody needs to worry.

Your claim was "they were never subject to uncertainty". Which is demonstrably wrong. Arguing about the rights and wrongs of using human beings as bargaining chips is a separate argument.

 

[Raven]

It was only uncertain for misinformed people and people who make money from conjecture, so was it really uncertain?

 

[Scouse]

Fucks sake. Do you even know what the word uncertain means @Raven?

 

[Job]

You are all behaving like its going to happen...even Farage has given up on it.

 

[Scouse]

No. We're uncertain. On lots of things. Including the rights of EU nationals who live here.

Which is an utter disgrace.

 

[DaGaffer]

It was only uncertain for misinformed people and people who make money from conjecture, so was it really uncertain?

If you have the Prime Minister directly refusing to confirm peoples' rights, and your own embassy saying "we don't know", then yes, its really uncertain. What source of truth is higher than that? God? And please don't go down the "well common sense says..." route because there's no fucking common sense at play in the whole Brexit process.

And just to be clear, things are still uncertain. There is no actual written agreement on anything.

 

[Job]

Well lets be honest here, if they start evicting white Australians, Europeans, Americans, there would be outrage from every camp, if they sent home a load of Roma Gypsies, Morrocans..most NA migrants, the complaints would be low key.

 

[Raven]

No. We're uncertain. On lots of things. Including the rights of EU nationals who live here.

Which is an utter disgrace.

No, We aren't uncertain, you are uncertain... They will get full rights to stay (those here after a reasonable time)

Could you imagine the absolute chaos that would happen if we asked people to leave? Its just not worth the hassle, for anyone. Aside from it being the right thing to do.

 

[Raven]

If you have the Prime Minister directly refusing to confirm peoples' rights, and your own embassy saying "we don't know", then yes, its really uncertain. What source of truth is higher than that? God? And please don't go down the "well common sense says..." route because there's no fucking common sense at play in the whole Brexit process.

And just to be clear, things are still uncertain. There is no actual written agreement on anything.

Again. Refusing to comment before a negotiation means precisely nothing.

I would absolutely love to negotiate with you if you think laying all your cards out on the table at the first instance is a good idea.

 

[Gwadien]

Again. Refusing to comment before a negotiation means precisely nothing.

I would absolutely love to negotiate with you if you think laying all your cards out on the table at the first instance is a good idea.

Using people's lives as a bargaining chip is a bit immoral though?

 

[Raven]

Yep, but that is not the point. And to be clear, it is the exact same position as the EU, a point to be negotiated.

 

[DaGaffer]

Again. Refusing to comment before a negotiation means precisely nothing.

I would absolutely love to negotiate with you if you think laying all your cards out on the table at the first instance is a good idea.

It does for the people being used as a bargaining chip you fuckwit. Seriously, have you been taking @Job's moron pills today?

 

[Raven]

Again, completely and utterly irrelevant whether its morally right or not, and again, the EU didn't comment on it either...as it is part of the negotiation.

 

[caLLous]

As the leaving member the onus is on the UK to make proposals and until they made their position clear (a good 8 months after Article 50 was submitted, despite repeated requests from the EU to make citizenship a priority), who are you (or who is anyone) to say what the outcome would be? If something isn't certain, it's*...

* I'll give you a clue, it starts with "un".

 

[Scouse]

Again, completely and utterly irrelevant whether its morally right or not, and again, the EU didn't comment on it either...as it is part of the negotiation.

If it's "part of a negotiation" then by definition the outcome is uncertain.

It didn't need to be like this. We have the power to unilaterally settle this issue. But we lack class.

 

[DaGaffer]

Again, completely and utterly irrelevant whether its morally right or not, and again, the EU didn't comment on it either...as it is part of the negotiation.

I wasn't talking about morality. I was going back to your original claim that there was "no uncertainty" about post-Brexit rights. I wasn't talking about why that was the case, just that it was, and is, the case. With sources.

 

[Embattle]

Naturally there is uncertainty, it goes hand in hand with the negotiations.

 

[Raven]

I said at the start they would be able to stay, I said at the middle they would be able to stay and I will say at the end they will be able to stay.

Because they will be able to stay.

Certainty.

Everyone with any wit about them will tell you the same.

 

[Raven]

Edit.

I mean, seriously, can you imagine the massive ball ache and cost to the economy if they turned round and said, right, X% of your workfroce will just have to fuck off I am afraid. Not sure who you will replace them with, the natives are happy at jobclub so, yeah, good luck.

No, not going to happen, obviously.

 

[Scouse]

It's not your fucking call to make. The arrogance!

 

[Raven]

Sorry, you will have to fill me in. Where did I say it was my call? You're in the realms of fantasy again.

Very bizarre comment...even for you.

 

[Raven]

Anyway, according to the ONS, as of 2016 (cba to look for newer figures) EU nationals make up 7% of the UK workforce, some 2.2 million people.

Do people actually think, with all seriousness, that we could just get rid of them? Who would we replace them with? Is the sky a different colour where you live?

I know its very fashionable to get all panicked and emotional over everything but engage brain, go.

 

[Scouse]

Sorry, you will have to fill me in. Where did I say it was my call?

You proclaimed 'certainty' when you can't.

Their situation is clearly uncertain and shit is happening to them because of this uncertainty (as @DaGaffer (and others)) have evidenced.

The only one living a fantasy here is you.


Edit: I don't for one second think every EU national will be kicked out. But some might. And there seems to be no rhyme or reason as to the ones that are being affected. So yes, each at-risk individual feels that uncertainty. The precarious nature of their position is only too evident for each of them.

That's a disgrace. And it reflects really badly on you that either a) you refuse to see it or b) are incapable of seeing it.

 

[Raven]

We have the power to unilaterally settle this issue. But we lack class.

Also this point. What utter, utter bullshit. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

We guarantee it, they don't what happens then? We suddenly find we have X hundreds of thousands of people having to return, no jobs, nowhere for them to live a huge social and economic problem.

Honestly, do you even think things over before they fall out your head?