Politics So...Europe then?

[Scouse]

Except we haven't agreed exactly what the EU wanted from the start, have we...

Pretty much. The number that's been generally bandied around for the past twelve months has been 50 billion.

I find it really weird that everyone - including you @Job, @Bodhi, @Embattle et al - were discussing that exact figure back in March and the people saying "nahhh we'll never pay it" are now the ones saying "yeah, it's good negotiation, we stiffed 'em on a lot more" or somesuch...

the figure under discussion in most of the media for the last year has been 50-60 billion

Not just in the media. Around here too - until it turns out we are actually going to pay it, and now it's suddenly become a disputed figure...

 

[Job]

No, Im saying we'll never pay it and before we even think of fudging it to look like we are going to pay it on the never..never, hiw about a detailed breakdown of where its going, to whos advantage and if its politically motivated handing out of cash.

 

[Raven]

We already have a detailed breakdown of where its going, its going exactly as it would have if we remained. Seeing as we will still be members, up until we aren't.

The rest will be paid for continued cooperation as we pull out of the EU, in a civilised manner.

Its funny though, the EU will have zero say in what we do post-Brexit, despite setting out their stall as to have the same say they do now. Basically it's turned out that we are paying our fair share of exiting, which nobody disputed, and they will have no say, at all, in what we decide afterwards. Out of their silly little protectionist bubble.

So basically, exactly what we wanted, from the start.

Now I am sure that is tre awks for the remoaners preferred narrative but they need to get used to disappointment

Out:Out

 

[dysfunction]

And uk won't get a say in whatever EU decides after we leave either.

 

[Raven]

Erm. Yes...

In the same way as we don't get a say in what other foreign countries do...

 

[dysfunction]

Yes so it's not really funny then....

 

[Scouse]

the EU will have zero say in what we do post-Brexit, despite setting out their stall as to have the same say they do now.

Yes they will.

If we want to trade with the EU we have to meet their standards. Or no sale.

We've just given up our say in what those standards are.

 

[Job]

Thats the same for all trade in the world.

 

[Scouse]

You literally just throw words together into what looks like a reasonable sentence but doesn't make any sense.

We used to dictate (as part of the EU) the standards of people who sold to us. Now we're going to bend and take what we can get. Especially from the yanks who are rubbing their hands with glee now they can sell their utter crap to us.

 

[Bodhi]

Of course you could find an individual news story to "prove" it was 100bn, but the figure under discussion in most of the media for the last year has been 50-60 billion. Do a search on "Barnier 50bn" for last Jan-Feb, and that's the number coming from the EU in all the press reports.

What have Barnier's comments in January or February got to do with Boris' comments in July, which were directly aimed at the concept of paying any more than we were legally obliged?

How about a news report that references both that quote you seem to love and the 100bn figure.

https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-eu-can-go-whistle-over-brexit-bill/

Nowhere in that quote does he suggest we pay nothing.

 

[Bodhi]

You literally just throw words together into what looks like a reasonable sentence but doesn't make any sense.

We used to dictate (as part of the EU) the standards of people who sold to us. Now we're going to bend and take what we can get. Especially from the yanks who are rubbing their hands with glee now they can sell their utter crap to us.

Of course we are.

Or...

Our standards may continue to be broadly in line with the rest of the western world, and trade will continue as before. If someone wants to sell us utter crap which doesn't meet British Standards, like some dodgy equine meat products or such like, we will tell them to naff off?

 

[Raven]

Oh standards, lets not get on them please...seeing as in many cases ours far exceed those of the EU. It will be them having to up their game to meet out standards, especially things like this whole animal welfare bullshit that the usuals have been stuck on for the last couple of weeks.

 

[Scouse]

this whole animal welfare bullshit

Nice. Good to see you give a shit about one of the things we should be proudest of.

Just because we're ahead of the EU in some areas (which we bloody well should be - it's a part-British project to stop constant war by helping European economic and social development after all) doesn't mean that it holds us back. It actually helps us keep our gains - for example in human rights, which the Tories keep trying to trash but the EU secures for us...

 

[Gwadien]

What's going on with the Irish border?

Does one of the parties actually want to put up a physical border or something?

Or is it one of those political things where neither sides come to an agreement because both parties refuse to disclose what they want before the other?

 

[Ormorof]

British brexiteers been dismissive saying it wont be a problem, Irish (on both side of the border) parties saying yes it is, republic jas support from rest of EU that trade talks wont start until its sorted, brexiteers now throwing toys out of pram

No one sane wants a hard border, in the same way no one sane wants a hard brexit but it looks like sanity has gone out of the window in these negotiations

 

[Raven]

It will be an open border. The current open border is nothing to do with the EU. Yeah, sure it might make it a little easier but it would exist EU or not.

It would be complicated if Ireland were in schengen...but they aren't so...

 

[Ormorof]

It will be an open border. The current open border is nothing to do with the EU.

It would be complicated if Ireland were in schengen...but they aren't so...

Well the trade between north and south is regulated by EU and as a member of EU ireland cannot negotiate its own trade agreements

And if you are in Ireland but not an irish citizen will you be able to move freely between republic and north but not to rest of UK? That puts the border control in irish sea which the DUP oppose who are propping up the current UK government...

So yeah its a simple issue that has nothing to do with EU

 

[Raven]

But foreign types have to do that now, to get into Ireland, they aren't in shengen.

Sure, trade might be slightly more complicated than it is now...but we managed for decades before.

As for border controls, they haven't had passport checks there since the war, aside from temporary ones during the troubles. What stopped people from travelling from France (for example) to ROI and then onto NI/UK ? The French person still has to produce their passport to get into ROI.

Sure, its something that needs to be agreed but its not as apocalyptic as the propagandists with have you believe. Pretty much the same as everything else, its falling into place.

 

[DaGaffer]

But foreign types have to do that now, to get into Ireland, they aren't in shengen.

Sure, trade might be slightly more complicated than it is now...but we managed for decades before.

As for border controls, they haven't had passport checks there since the war, aside from temporary ones during the troubles. What stopped people from travelling from France (for example) to ROI and then onto NI/UK ? The French person still has to produce their passport to get into ROI.

Yes, and once in the Republic said French person (who might be an Algerian migrant with a newly minted EU passport because its only the Darkies that UKians get upset about) can get on a bus to Belfast without showing their passport. So then they're in the UK. Ireland isn't tracking them and the DUP have put a veto on any checks between NI and the rest of the UK. See the problem?

In the days of the Troubles mass migration wasn't really a thing and Dublin wasn't a major international airport, now both things are, and its an open border with the UK.

In regards to trade; the problem is integrated supply chains, particularly in agriculture where farm goods might cross back and forth across the border several times during processing (milk is a good example). This is all going to be broken if there are customs and tariffs.

The level of ignorance about the border in the UK is staggering. The problem is that exiting the customs union and single market, and NOT having a border are mutually irreconcilable. The UK just wants to kick the problem down the road until whatever outcome becomes a fait accompli, (because UKGov gives no fucks about the Republic or NI, truth be told) and the Irish have rightly pointed out the UK created the problem, the UK can work out how to fix it.

 

[Ctuchik]

hiw about a detailed breakdown of where its going, to whos advantage and if its politically motivated handing out of cash.

There is a breakdown but more importantly what good would that information do you?

You kinda gave up your rights to have a say in where that money go the second you voted out..

 

[Raven]

Actually, we have every right, up until the moment we leave.*

*We know where its going anyway, so its moot.

 

[Ormorof]

Seems the UK has agreed to something on border issue, looks like NI will somehow be a special case and still within customs union, this would put customs border in irish sea as i cant see EU allowing NI to be a backdoor into customs and trade union

 

[Wij]

Seems the UK has agreed to something on border issue, looks like NI will somehow be a special case and still within customs union, this would put customs border in irish sea as i cant see EU allowing NI to be a backdoor into customs and trade union

How does that affect trade deals between UK and A.N.Other for NI businesses then?

Also makes NI a bit of a 2nd-class bit of the UK. Can't imagine DUP will be happy.

 

[Ormorof]

Isnt it already 2nd class

UK and Northern Ireland after all not just UK

 

[Wij]

Isnt it already 2nd class

UK and Northern Ireland after all not just UK

UK = Great Britain & Northern Ireland

 

[DaGaffer]

DUP toys out of the pram already...

 

[caLLous]

Sadiq Khan weighing in as well, that'll boil @Job's piss.

 

[Gwadien]

Sadiq Khan weighing in as well, that'll boil @Job's piss.

Why would ISIS want the UK to be in the single market though?

Hmmm...

 

[Bodhi]

Sadiq Khan weighing in as well, that'll boil @Job's piss.

Hard border round the M25? I could go for that....

 

[Embattle]

Sadiq Khan weighing in as well, that'll boil @Job's piss.

Means utterly nothing to be honest, no matter what is actually being said about NI/Ireland behind closed doors.