Politics So...Europe then?

[Wij]

No one butthurt..its the comedy of it.
Everyone just needs to get a fucking grip and be reminded how important the UK is to Europe.
Scouse loves to call brexiters as poor idiots, if we were not in it youd have to be an idiot to want to join such a basketcase of arguing countries all living off the back of Germany.

It doesn't matter how important the UK is to Europe. If the UK isn't willing to let the ECJ have any jurisdiction over it then we are out of the single market entirely and will be worse off. It's not about self-interest. It's a legal necessity.

The problem Brexiteers have had all along is that they are envisaging article 50 as some kind of bartering process. It is a legal process with well-defined legal boundaries. To get A you must accept B. Take it or leave it. There is no deep and special partnership. There is EEA/EFTA or there a Trade Deal like Canada's. The latter is vastly different to the former.

 

[Raven]

Why on earth would we allow a foreign court jurisdiction?

I think the problem Remoaners have is they can't quite grasp the fact that out means out and baring any second vote and a different result, which is highly unlikely, we will be leaving and endlessly whining about it wont change that fact.

 

[Wij]

Why on earth would we allow a foreign court jurisdiction?

I think the problem Remoaners have is they can't quite grasp the fact that out means out and baring any second vote and a different result, which is highly unlikely, we will be leaving and endlessly whining about it wont change that fact.

How would you settle a dispute about trade without one? Country A's court says its company did nothing wrong. Country B's court says it did. Deadlock. Country B unilaterally decides to block Country A's exports because of it.

If you want to have trade with fewer barriers you need a dispute resolution mechanism. Don't want that mechanism? Then you can have barriers instead. Simples.

 

[Scouse]

Why on earth would we allow a foreign court jurisdiction?

How would you settle a dispute about trade without one?

Not just simple, but obvious...

 

[Raven]

How would you settle a dispute about trade without one? Country A's court says its company did nothing wrong. Country B's court says it did. Deadlock. Country B unilaterally decides to block Country A's exports because of it.

If you want to have trade with fewer barriers you need a dispute resolution mechanism. Don't want that mechanism? Then you can have barriers instead. Simples.

So, are you saying the ECJ have jurisdiction over America too?

ofc it doesn't because generally courts don't have jurisdiction over foreign countries, ever.

Any trade disputes would be not be settled in the domestic courts of either country. There are international mechanisms in place for dispute resolution, which would be unlikely to happen anyway because of the relevant trade agreements...which while not in place now, obviously, will have to be at some point, being the best outcome for all concerned.

 

[Scouse]

There are international mechanisms in place for dispute resolution

You clearly don't understand the basics.

If we want to trade not under WTO rules (one of the international mechanisms for trade you mentioned - there are others, but none of them are British-run) then the arbiter of disputes when trading into the European single market, our biggest trade destination by far, is the ECJ. As explained quite clearly here.


I don't get how you can have such strongly held views if you don't have any sort of grasp of the basics. Well, I kinda do, but...

 

[Job]

But how far will business let the ideology of politicians hurt their bottom line.
The EU is the club with the problem...they are using economic penalties to further their political goals.
In 50 years time the EU will have destroyed the unified Europe dream and no one will touch it with a barge pole.
They have allready managed to lose the UK...an utterly epic level of fucktardedness.
They sent Cameron home with a tax free tampon and actually expected the British public to be too scared to tell them to fuck themselves.
Luckily there were more brave and fewer cowards.

 

[DaGaffer]

Why on earth would we allow a foreign court jurisdiction?

I think the problem Remoaners have is they can't quite grasp the fact that out means out and baring any second vote and a different result, which is highly unlikely, we will be leaving and endlessly whining about it wont change that fact.

Why on earth would we allow a foreign court jurisdiction?

I think the problem Remoaners have is they can't quite grasp the fact that out means out and baring any second vote and a different result, which is highly unlikely, we will be leaving and endlessly whining about it wont change that fact.

If you have trade agreements you give up some sovereignty to foreign arbitration. The Americans use the WTO and the NAFTA Secretariat, the EU uses the ECJ and there’s an equivalent EFTA Court as well, because these groups are multilateral, and need to consider the effects of bilateral judgements on third-parties within their groups.

As it happens the U.K. can’t stay subject to the ECJ anyway, even if it wanted to (that’s actually why there’s a separate EFTA Court because Subjecting EFTA members to the ECJ was unworkable).

What U.K.Gov wants is effectively it’s own unique deal on the grounds of our super specialness (and to be fair the U.K. is more important to the EU than all the members of EFTA combined) but, the deal the U.K. needs is “EFTA-like” in its complexity (way more than the Canadian deal) and like EFTA, will need its own unique arbitration setup and will in effect be a foreign court the U.K. is subject to.

 

[Job]

Gorbachov quote.

"The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe."

I cant find any evidence he actually said it though.

 

[Ormorof]

Or that it is in any way true

 

[Bodhi]

Gorbachov quote.

"The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe."

I cant find any evidence he actually said it though.

RUSSIAN ELECTION MEDDLING!!!

 

[Job]

Or that it is in any way true

Basically its exactly the same thing, except the EU is trying to create a socialist federal supersate while turning the countries right wing one by one...which..I 'm hazarding a guess here...might not go to plan.

 

[Job]

It's like watching I told you so in slow motion.
EU anti fake news about the EU, add that to the department of calling all right wing parties dangerous to the EU...next step is of course making it illegal to criticise the EU.
EU anti-propaganda unit gets €1m a year to counter Russian fake news

 

[DaGaffer]

It's like watching I told you so in slow motion.
EU anti fake news about the EU, add that to the department of calling all right wing parties dangerous to the EU...next step is of course making it illegal to criticise the EU.
EU anti-propaganda unit gets €1m a year to counter Russian fake news

Or, in less perjorative terms, the EU gets a PR department.

 

[Wij]

It's like watching I told you so in slow motion.
EU anti fake news about the EU, add that to the department of calling all right wing parties dangerous to the EU...next step is of course making it illegal to criticise the EU.
EU anti-propaganda unit gets €1m a year to counter Russian fake news

Russia spends a hundred times that creating propaganda so that’s just pissing in the wind.

 

[Raven]

Pharma investments to create 1,850 jobs

 

[Wij]

Pharma investments to create 1,850 jobs

In other news it was a bit cold yesterday so global warming isn't happening.

 

[caLLous]

 

[Raven]

In other news it was a bit cold yesterday so global warming isn't happening.

Sorry, I thought we posted every negative jobs story and twisted it to be about Brexit. Surely by that logic any gains must be about Brexit too?!

 

[Wij]

Swallows. Summer.

UK faces two decades of no earnings growth and more austerity, says IFS

Britain crashes out of world's top 5 economies

 

[Scouse]

Swallows. Summer.

Just had a long talk with a friend who's been running an archaeological company for 20 years. The great repeal act is seeking to remove the polluter pays principle - so that fucks archaeology (as developers have a duty to check before build) and environment (again - as EIA's / monitoring etc. are statutory - so my missus' is fucked). All on the Q.T.

Not being reported, so he's part of a group from his profession that are going to publish an open letter about it. Not that he holds out much hope that it'll do any good. There's so much good that's going to get kicked into the long grass by the corporate power grab that's about to occur

 

[Embattle]

*Yawn*

 

[Scouse]

*Yawn*

You never actually make an argument do you.

 

[Embattle]

I do, I just don't tend to rehash them.

 

[Job]

Scientists eh.

Brexit is strongly linked to xenophobia, according to scientists

 

[Raven]

UK banks could handle 'disorderly Brexit'

Note, switch your insurance to UK based companies, to save hassle later on.

 

[Job]

Ive officially given up in the Indy, its become the National Enquirer for liberals.
Its so negative about everything, doesnt even bother with good news from the left, just endless almost farcical attacks on brexit and the tories.

 

[Hawkwind]

How would you settle a dispute about trade without one? Country A's court says its company did nothing wrong. Country B's court says it did. Deadlock. Country B unilaterally decides to block Country A's exports because of it.

If you want to have trade with fewer barriers you need a dispute resolution mechanism. Don't want that mechanism? Then you can have barriers instead. Simples.

WTO oversees that right?

 

[Job]

Hiw about we fuk all trade organisations off and let the market decide.

 

[Scouse]

Scientists eh.

Brexit is strongly linked to xenophobia, according to scientists

Yeah. Damn them and their fact-gathering.