Politics So...Europe then?

[dysfunction]

Yes sometimes it's a choice of "No job" or "zero hour contract". Not much of a choice really.

 

[Raven]

Sorry, I am not having that. There are loads of jobs, all over the place.

Again, it is people refusing to take responsibility for their own life and their own choices.

 

[DaGaffer]

Well no, people chose to work on zero hours contracts for all sorts of reasons, they want to work when they feel like it, they have other commitments etc. Slightly unfair to put them in the same basket as the "job club" wankers.

You don't really believe that do you? The move towards zero hour contracts has nothing to do with giving workers more choices; its about slashing wage bills and nothing else. There may be a subset of people who find such contracts useful (although given the way they're set up often precludes easily managing a second job), but that's not the intention, its a side-effect.

 

[Raven]

I believe that nobody is forced into anything, they just think they are, the sooner people realise that the better their lives would be.

In the same way that the individual is responsible for his/her/apache gunship own life and choices made therein.

Is nobody else tired of the "oh but it's not my fault that...." "Oh I had no choice but to...." Get the fuck out of here.

 

[Scouse]

I believe that nobody is forced into anything, they just think they are

That's patently ridiculous.

 

[Gwadien]

Also - Agencies.

There's thousands of jobs out there but they're given to agencies instead, especially low skilled factory work. I know people who rely on this kind of unreliable minimum wage work.

 

[Raven]

Something something chose to do unskilled factory work something something.

effort = reward

 

[Scouse]

effort = reward

Bullshit.

Tell that to the care home worker taking home mimimum wage for long hours with no protection for illness other that statutory - dependent on the state to top up wages (via our taxes) to make ends meet.

Tell it to those born into riches and a life of the best opportunities who, rather than contribute, piss daddy's money up the wall on a life of wandering leisure.

Effort <> Reward*.



*I'd be delighted if it did.

 

[Raven]

And what do you think would happen if nobody chose to work for buttons doing that job?

So long as people are willing to put up with it (out of choice, nobody is forcing them) it will happen.

Waaa waaa I am on shit money, someone help me waaaa waaaa.

Do something about it, change jobs. So long as there are people that decide, through their own free will, to work for shit money then companies will pay shit money.

 

[Scouse]

So long as people are willing to put up with it (out of choice, nobody is forcing them)

The need to put a roof over your head is forcing them, the need to pay bills is forcing them, the need to fucking eat is forcing them - never mind a basic want to live with dignity.

It's self-evident that not only there isn't but their there can't be more, better paid, alternatives open to everyone because of the way our economy is structured.

As long as we structure our economy the way it is then some people will have no alternative but to take what they can get because the alternative is utter destitution, poverty and homelessness - and no amount of hard work will change that for them.

 

[Raven]

Ah, but there is. If everybody downed tools tomorrow and demanded change then it would change.

But again we come back to the fact that it's easier to sit around on the internet moaning about it, rather than doing something about it.

Everything in our society happens because we as a collection of people allow it to happen, one way or another.

 

[Raven]

lol with the facepalms again

You know when @Scouse has lost because out they come, predictable and hilarious.

 

[Scouse]

Only facepalm when you say something so fucking dumb you make Job look educated.

 

[Raven]

I would expect nothing less from an intellectual dwarf, such as yourself.

 

[Ormorof]

Im continuously astonished by the views on poverty and inequality from FH

 

[Scouse]

Im continuously astonished by the views on poverty and inequality from FH

I used to be

 

[Raven]

Im continuously astonished by the views on poverty and inequality from FH

The closest most of the people here have been to poverty is reading about it in the Guardian.

 

[Ormorof]

The closest most of the people here have been to poverty is reading about it in the Guardian.

How could you possibly know that

I believe we have (or had) someone on this very forum who was unable to leave the house and thus work, but yes im sure thst if he/she/apache helicopter tried harder it would solve all their problems

I spent a fun bit of time unemployed (in Hull no less) living on 25 pounds per week, i lost 25kgs in weight and suffered medical issies because of it (my lung collapsed... at 198cm im not meant to weigh less than 70kg) but im sure that if i had tried harder it would magically have been fixed!

You preach that everyone should just work harder because you are unable to see that the ones you judge as fat and lazy layabouts are actually people

And Moriath is the one that supppsedly lacks empathy!

As i said, i am astonished by it

 

[Scouse]

How could you possibly know that

He can't. He doesn't have a clue.

 

[Gwadien]

Ah, but there is. If everybody downed tools tomorrow and demanded change then it would change.

But again we come back to the fact that it's easier to sit around on the internet moaning about it, rather than doing something about it.

Everything in our society happens because we as a collection of people allow it to happen, one way or another.

I don't think you understand how social mobility is crippled in this country, it's due to base education and inspiring kids to go far.

When I went to University, I was told by a guy who worked at Tesco it was a waste of time because he would earn the same amount as me by the time he qualified, he couldn't grasp the concept of career progression. It isn't his fault, it's the immediate gratification people that live with enough money to spend on their weekly fags/alcohol and their holiday to *enter 'chav' holiday destination*.

In recent times, the money that they can spend has declined due to the financial issues. You don't seriously think you can respond to this by saying 'HAVE SOME AMBITION FFS' they didn't need ambition before.

Besides.

Someone has to clean the toilets, it's up to us to ensure that the employment that they are in is safe and can cover their essentials.

 

[Raven]

How could you possibly know that

I believe we have (or had) someone on this very forum who was unable to leave the house and thus work, but yes im sure thst if he/she/apache helicopter tried harder it would solve all their problems

I spent a fun bit of time unemployed (in Hull no less) living on 25 pounds per week, i lost 25kgs in weight and suffered medical issies because of it (my lung collapsed... at 198cm im not meant to weigh less than 70kg) but im sure that if i had tried harder it would magically have been fixed!

You preach that everyone should just work harder because you are unable to see that the ones you judge as fat and lazy layabouts are actually people

And Moriath is the one that supppsedly lacks empathy!

As i said, i am astonished by it

Did you A, sit there blaming someone else.

Or B. Do something about it?

 

[Gwadien]

Did you A, sit there blaming someone else.

Or B. Do something about it?

I don't think the vast majority of self-respecting people sit there and blame people, I think they want help and support to get out of shitty situations, and you know, a tiny amount of empathy, rather than people shouting at them that they're not good enough and they need to sort their lives out.

As I say, Victorian.

 

[Raven]

The only people suggesting they aren't good enough is you.

It is also, as already explained, quite the opposite of a Victorian attitude. A Victorian attitude would be, fuck um, they are useless, not fuck um, if they can't be arsed to help themselves, leave them behind.

 

[Gwadien]

The only people suggesting they aren't good enough is you.

It is also, as already explained, quite the opposite of a Victorian attitude. A Victorian attitude would be, fuck um, they are useless, not fuck um, if they can't be arsed to help themselves, leave them behind.

Really?

Victorian Values - Deserving & Undeserving - WCBC

I mean, you already said a pair of people who had medical conditions should not be able to rent a house. A FUCKING HOUSE.

You know there's people on this forum who are in -that- exact same position - how the fuck do you think that makes them feel?

Or is that the whole point? Emotions are too liberal?

 

[Job]

I'll throw this in...why dont poor people stop having kids...then everyone would be rich....
Discuss.

 

[Gwadien]

I'll throw this in...why dont poor people stop having kids...then everyone would be rich....
Discuss.

FOAD.

 

[Job]

Really?

Victorian Values - Deserving & Undeserving - WCBC

I mean, you already said a pair of people who had medical conditions should not be able to rent a house. A FUCKING HOUSE.

You know there's people on this forum who are in -that- exact same position - how the fuck do you think that makes them feel?

Or is that the whole point? Emotions are too liberal?

That Kurdish guy I was talking to summed it up..he said in the UK you cant tell the difference between the rich and the poor.
Back in Iraq..the poor have nothing..and the rich have everything.

 

[Raven]

Really?

Victorian Values - Deserving & Undeserving - WCBC

I mean, you already said a pair of people who had medical conditions should not be able to rent a house. A FUCKING HOUSE.

You know there's people on this forum who are in -that- exact same position - how the fuck do you think that makes them feel?

Or is that the whole point? Emotions are too liberal?

1 of them had a medical condition. The other has an excuse. A bad back does not stop someone from working (neither does depression, actually). A bad back that "the doctors can't find out what it is" is bullshit. I work with someone whos back is fusing together that has daily injections for the pain, she works, 35 hours a week.

The point you are refusing to accept is that everyone is in charge of their own destiny, social mobility blah blah, try complaining about the lack of it to someone in the 3rd world ffs. People have every opportunity to better themselves, if they don't want to take those chances then fuck'um.

 

[Scouse]

I think Raven is unable to grasp the fundamental issues with a pyramidal distribution of wealth.

 

[old.user4556]

I'll throw this in...why dont poor people stop having kids...then everyone would be rich....
Discuss.

In a bizarre way, I agree there's too many people on the planet.