Politics So...Europe then?

[Scouse]

If you want to deal with America or China or anywhere else in Asia then you speak English, or you stand there kicking your heals.

Becoming increasingly less important in the industry I work in, banking, from day to day.

 

[Raven]

No, it isn't.

You work in IT, not in banking. You work in banking as much as the women in the canteen at the bank works in banking.

And even then every international internal communication will be in English, every communication between (say) A French arm and a German arm, will be in English, it's just the way it is, sorry.

 

[Scouse]

Nowadays banking is IT.

Anyway - as I watch jobs go from the UK across the industry (as I watched the same with power companies before that) I see the top-level decisions being made increasingly outide of Blighty. If that trend continues (and there's no reason why it shouldn't that I'm aware of) then in fifty or sixty years I don't see why the majority of those conversations won't be held in the languages that reflect where those decisions are taken.

Britain, whilst currently the centre of the european banking world, looks to be signing itself largely out of that game. It was the city's tariff-free access to European markets that made us a hub for other countries as a gateway into Europe. Now we've shut the gates they're going to increasingly bypass us - and that transformation is self-evidently picking up pace.

Global growth isn't really going on in the UK and US - it's increasingly Asia which is running full steam ahead. What goes on over there is increasingly important. This isn't news - everyone knows this.

So why, when we eventually get to the sort of age where we're looking to shuffle off this mortal coil, do you not think that those economic powerhouses will dominate the languge arena too? Speak to people in their own language and you get the jump. Growth ain't here anymore. It's elsewhere.

I get that nationalists get butthurt by the idea (which amuses me tbh - I couldn't give a fuck either way - it won't affect me that much) - but it's hardly a shocking possibility. And that's what we're talking about - possibility.

If you don't have a UK-centred PoV the idea that English won't be the primary language of the future is utterly uncontroversial.

 

[Raven]

lol, lots of bollocks there, well done. You are still factually incorrect.

I has absolutely nothing to do with nationalism (Its thanks to America, mostly anyway) just a way of life. You can pretend otherwise, in you quest to be Anti-UKwithouttheballstomove but it doesn't change the fact, sorry.

 

[Scouse]

That's not an argument Raven. That's just saying you saying 'you're wrong...just "because"'.

But meh. Not like it matters anyway.

 

[Raven]

A wall of text doesn't change things, it just means you are wrong and you have wasted your time writing a lot of nonsense

 

[DaGaffer]

Nowadays banking is IT.

Anyway - as I watch jobs go from the UK across the industry (as I watched the same with power companies before that) I see the top-level decisions being made increasingly outide of Blighty. If that trend continues (and there's no reason why it shouldn't that I'm aware of) then in fifty or sixty years I don't see why the majority of those conversations won't be held in the languages that reflect where those decisions are taken.

Britain, whilst currently the centre of the european banking world, looks to be signing itself largely out of that game. It was the city's tariff-free access to European markets that made us a hub for other countries as a gateway into Europe. Now we've shut the gates they're going to increasingly bypass us - and that transformation is self-evidently picking up pace.

Global growth isn't really going on in the UK and US - it's increasingly Asia which is running full steam ahead. What goes on over there is increasingly important. This isn't news - everyone knows this.

So why, when we eventually get to the sort of age where we're looking to shuffle off this mortal coil, do you not think that those economic powerhouses will dominate the languge arena too? Speak to people in their own language and you get the jump. Growth ain't here anymore. It's elsewhere.

I get that nationalists get butthurt by the idea (which amuses me tbh - I couldn't give a fuck either way - it won't affect me that much) - but it's hardly a shocking possibility. And that's what we're talking about - possibility.

If you don't have a UK-centred PoV the idea that English won't be the primary language of the future is utterly uncontroversial.

The working language in Asia is also English. And unlike other languages, English allows itself to be localised. There's no reason why English shouldn't remain the lingua franca for the forseeable future, irrespective of the fortunes of the UK or US.

As for the language in banking in 50-60 years, it will just be AIs talking to each other anyway, we'll have no idea what they're saying to each other.

 

[Scouse]

There's no reason why English shouldn't remain the lingua franca for the forseeable future

Aye. The point I was making is that, given the number of speakers of alternative languages, there's no reason why it should either...

 

[Raven]

Because there are so many other languages. Why would anyone change just for the sake of it when everyone that matters already speaks a single language, either as a first language or second language, being English? Which would they chose? "Lets use two words for everything" German or "lets have 3 different words for everything based on sex" French.

It wouldn't make any sense whatsoever, from any perspective, except the most frothing, rampant of Anglophobe.

 

[DaGaffer]

Aye. The point I was making is that, given the number of speakers of alternative languages, there's no reason why it should either...

Momentum. Even in China, Cantonese and Mandarin speakers communicate in English. There's barely a country in the world where English isn't the most popular second language, so there's no real reason to change because its useful. What else would take over? Mandarin? Unlikely because unlike English it relies on a good accent as well as vocab; English is very useful for getting yourself understood even if your accent is terrible; a terrible accent in Mandarin can much more easily change the entire meaning of a sentence. Spanish is the only other credible alternative but there's no reason for Asians or Africans to suddenly start using Spanish as their second language.

The only thing that could genuinely impact English speaking is technology; if we all end up with some kind of universal translator (which seems increasingly likely), there will be no reason to learn a second language at all.

 

[Scouse]

Momentum.

Not enough to guarantee that outcome IMO. There's too many other facets to language. Including that what you speak and think in influences what and how you think and how you percive the world around you - it's not just about communication. (Which is why I was really surprised by the vitriol that was shot at @Gwadien when he brought up that article about designing-out racial, social and sexual bias from AI being so important - and language was at the root of that. It was like people hadn't even realised it was even a thing??!).

Economic, cultural, useage patterns, the past not being a guide to the future. Yadda yadda yadda. I'm not saying current speakers would choose to conduct things in new ways - and I'm talking in generational timescales, so us old farts'll die off and the new will come through.

It's the shape of that new that will be determined by a multitude of factors and isn't set in stone.

(And for the cheap seats, again, I'm talking possibilities.)

 

[Raven]

No, you were waffling on that if financial markets move out of London, English would not be as frequently spoken. Now you are waffling on about something else.

While I am sure it makes sense in your head, its quite obviously bollocks.

 

[Job]

Computers are about to change language in a way people will not understand now, it will go far beyond universal translation, to communicate with AI we will need to use it to augment our thoughts, we are going to get increasingly slow and present spoken languages are just not going to cut it.
The language of the future will have to be a meld of what we are trying to say and an interface that knows what we really mean.

 

[Job]

Cough

German minister says too many people are speaking English in Berlin

 

[dysfunction]

Cough

German minister says too many people are speaking English in Berlin

Cough
Politics - So...Europe then?

Why do you think there was talk about English in this thread??

 

[Job]

Damn..just one page back as well.

Anyway..hows it going intergrating Europe into a big love in....thought not.

 

[Gwadien]

Cough

German minister says too many people are speaking English in Berlin

Because you love the diverse use of language in British cities.

 

[Job]

Im right behind them..good to see the Germans getting all nationalistic again...after telling everyone else to hug open borders.

 

[TdC]

Besides that article being complete horse shit, it seems you've got humanitarianism at the bottom of your priorities again Job. Good show.

 

[Hawkwind]

Aye. The point I was making is that, given the number of speakers of alternative languages, there's no reason why it should either...

Except there are a lot of industries like Aviation where all the manuals (operation and maintenance) are in English and all staff working in and around the aircraft (Maintenance, Flight/Cabin Crew...) have to pass an English test to gain the qualifications to do their job. English is pretty much the business language of the world and will be for a very long time yet.

 

[Ormorof]

And in programming

Even courses taught in finnish have most of their programming courses taught in english, just makes more sense

 

[caLLous]

Even as the UK loses importance on the world stage, I don't see English as an international language going anywhere.

 

[Raven]

I will just leave this here.

UK unemployment falls to new 42-year low - BBC News

 

[Scouse]

Real earnings continue to decline for over a decade and "jobs" include no-fixed-hours or income in part-time work for multiple employers.

But it looks good on the stats I guess.

 

[Raven]

Real earnings continue to decline for over a decade and "jobs" include no-fixed-hours or income in part-time work for multiple employers.

But it looks good on the stats I guess.

Care to provide a source?

 

[DaGaffer]

Care to provide a source?

UK workers have had the worst wage growth in the OECD except Greece

 

[Raven]

ok, thanks.

Edit, growth is pretty meaningless on its own though (you need to show growth from what) its still pretty much in line with France and Germany as a total annual average. UK €2113, France €2180 and Germany €2225

Edit edit, discounting London, isn't the cost of living in the UK lower anyway? So in real terms, even more similar?

And now the bit about people who chose to work part time or on zero hour contracts, please.

 

[Ormorof]

Im sure they all chose to work in zero hour contracts because they are too fat and lazy to work 9 to 5

 

[Raven]

Im sure they all chose to work in zero hour contracts because they are too fat and lazy to work 9 to 5

Well no, people chose to work on zero hours contracts for all sorts of reasons, they want to work when they feel like it, they have other commitments etc. Slightly unfair to put them in the same basket as the "job club" wankers.

You do understand personal choice, as a concept, right? It's similar to personal responsibility, in that it is up to the individual, not anyone else.

 

[Ormorof]

On a more serious note, zero hour contracts are often used to exploit labor, it puts all the power in hamds of employer, hell they can even pay them less

Workers on zero-hour contracts earn £1 an hour less doing the same jobs

This is why they are being fought against, not because "snowflakes" or "the professionally offended" are against personal choice

Theres always a choice but not always good ones