Politics So...Europe then?

[Raven]

The fact that, as you acknowledge, I'm unfortunately "scoring points", as you call it, is down to the shit that anyone with two brain cells to rub together knew would happen during Brexit is now happening.

Imagine someone actually voting for Brexit. That's pretty fucking low. That's people's lives you voted to fuck over there Bodhi.


Calling me out for something you actually did is pretty hypocritical Bodhi old bean. Gibraltar's current predicament, the predicament of millions of people in the UK and EU - you have a share of that responsibility. When you had the opportunity to use your voice this is what you voted for.

I voted remain. Because it was obvious this stuff would happen.

Right, so you have a bit of land, lets call it Gibraltar, who's inhabitants are a nationality, lets call them British, another country who's inhabitants, lets call them Spanish, want to take over against the will of the people.

Who is the aggressor here?

The talk of war and so on is just bullshit, it won't come to that but if it did it would be the EU and Spain being the aggressor, not us and frankly we would have every right to defend the people against a foreign aggressor.

Edit. The fact that the EU and Spain are pulling this bullshit so early on, and then getting all indigent when they get told to fuck off speaks volumes.

 

[Raven]

Also, if this is what you mean by "I knew this would happen" then you are a fucking mong for voting remain. You should not vote to keep the status quo if the status quo involves appeasing an aggressive, undemocratic regime. Supporting it is as good as being it.

While I know that is not what you mean, we are a week into pulling out and all we have seen so far is childish shit from one side (the EU) if that is their true colours then we are so much better off without them, regardless of the short term pain.

 

[Job]

I keep forgetting about Viktor, the Wilders of Hungary.
The Guardian are calling for him to be ousted.

The EU has tolerated Viktor Orbán for too long. It has to take a stand now | Cas Mudde

 

[DaGaffer]

Also, if this is what you mean by "I knew this would happen" then you are a fucking mong for voting remain. You should not vote to keep the status quo if the status quo involves appeasing an aggressive, undemocratic regime. Supporting it is as good as being it.

While I know that is not what you mean, we are a week into pulling out and all we have seen so far is childish shit from one side (the EU) if that is their true colours then we are so much better off without them, regardless of the short term pain.

Oh, you mean supporting an entity that stops people fighting each other and talking instead? The entity that several people on here insist has nothing to do with keeping the peace in Europe for 60 years? It matters not a jot that there are regimes and political outlooks in Europe that we don't like or do things in a way we don't agree; that's been the default position of Europe for the past two thousand years, until we figured a way to accommodate those differences through an imperfect union of common interests. I knew this would happen because I can read a history book and I'm not naive.

 

[Scouse]

Who is the aggressor here?

Who gives a fuck? The situation as it stands is entirely of Brexit's making, was predicted long before the vote took place and wouldn't have occured in the first place if Brexit hadn't been voted for.

The people who voted for brexit voted for this. It was obvious***. They are culpable for not only this - but for all the other shit that's happening.

You're a massive proponent of the vote. Are you now saying people shouldn't be held accountable for how they voted? What a joke!


And that's on top of the fact that you're actually considering war with Spain, not seriously maybe, but considering it - and you said the EU had nothing to do with keeping the peace! The first contentious issue over land and we'e got politicians and retards rattling sabres!

So you voted to give the EU Project the big thumbs up? Given the issues it's causing in Southern Europe with youth unemployment, I'm not sure if I could sleep at night if I'd done that.

Of course not - that wasn't on the ballot. I voted for none of the shit that you're actually partially responsible for. Remainers understood that change is best achieved from within and through dialogue in the most historically war-torn continent on the planet.

Whine all you like, but you are reponsible for what's going on now. You voted for it.



***- maybe it wasn't "obvious" to Brexiteers though. Their level of education had a higher correlation with the voting pattern than any other major demographic measure. Thick people will be thick tho.

 

[Raven]

There would have been no more wars in europe if the nazis had won. Your reasoning is flawed.

 

[Raven]

Who gives a fuck? The situation as it stands is entirely of Brexit's making, was predicted long before the vote took place and wouldn't have occured in the first place if Brexit hadn't been voted for.

The people who voted for brexit voted for this. It was obvious***. They are culpable for not only this - but for all the other shit that's happening.

You're a massive proponent of the vote. Are you now saying people shouldn't be held accountable for how they voted? What a joke!


And that's on top of the fact that you're actually considering war with Spain, not seriously maybe, but considering it - and you said the EU had nothing to do with keeping the peace! The first contentious issue over land and we'e got politicians and retards rattling sabres!


Of course not - that wasn't on the ballot. I voted for none of the shit that you're actually partially responsible for. Remainers understood that change is best achieved from within in this case.

Whine all you like, but you are reponsible for what's going on now. You voted for it.



***- maybe it wasn't "obvious" to Brexiteers though. Their level of education had a higher correlation with the voting pattern than any other major demographic measure. Thick people will be thick tho.

I am not considering war with the EU, I am talking about defending the democratic choice made by the people of Gibraltar. If it comes to war then we will certainly not be the ones invading.

To say it another way, you are wilfully supporting bringers of war.

Edit, not that it will come to war but it gives dumb people something to worry about.

 

[Job]

The next door neighbours son knocked around and asked if he could be my apprentice for a few months.
He wants to go to Europe with his qualifications and work for 6 months of the year.

I'm like...er..you might need to check on that one.

 

[Scouse]

I am not considering war with the EU

Er, yes you are:

but if it did it would be the EU and Spain being the aggressor, not us and frankly we would have every right to defend the people against a foreign aggressor.

So, you've not only thought about it. You've weighed up whether it would be ethical on our part - i.e. the EU and Spain being aggressors - and you've come to the conclusion that "we'd have every right"...

That's the definition of considering something. And a massive tick in the box of "Good Things That The EU Does" - preventing people thinking of war, and keeping them at the negotiation table with their partners.

But oh no! The EU is a piece of shit that has nothing to do with keeping the peace.

 

[Bodhi]

Interesting that everyone is crediting the EU with preventing wars, when it appears to be them encouraging Spain in the first place. It's far more likely to be NATO keeping the peace here, given that the UK and Spain are both members. Pretty much laying claim to another members territory is frowned upon there.

 

[Ormorof]

He has two years, might as well do it now while hes young!

 

[Raven]

Oh, you mean supporting an entity that stops people fighting each other and talking instead? The entity that several people on here insist has nothing to do with keeping the peace in Europe for 60 years? It matters not a jot that there are regimes and political outlooks in Europe that we don't like or do things in a way we don't agree; that's been the default position of Europe for the past two thousand years, until we figured a way to accommodate those differences through an imperfect union of common interests. I knew this would happen because I can read a history book and I'm not naive.

Bullshit. Nuclear armament and NATO has stopped the west from being at war with one another. However, we have been at war with someone or other nearly every year since...funnily enough countries with no nuclear deterrent and not in NATO.

 

[Raven]

But oh no! The EU is a piece of shit that has nothing to do with keeping the peace.

Threatening someone who has made a democratic choice to leave is not keeping the peace, it is being shown up as an aggressive shitshow. "you can have peace so long as you do what you are told"

 

[Scouse]

You can keep repeating it @Raven, but it doesn't make you right. We haven't had war *in Europe* because of the EU. Period.

It's what it was fucking invented for for god's sake.

 

[Raven]

You're talking bollocks, again.

NATO was created to keep the peace, the EU was created to share wealth.

 

[Scouse]

the EU was created to share wealth.

Yes - the EU was created to keep the peace by making us so economically dependent on each other that we couldn't go to war with each other without fucking ourselves over.

That was the basic plan. It's been often stated before. It's not a controvertial view in any way. A United States of Europe was Churchill's own idea.

Peace through trade. Ever closer union. United States of Europe.

A high-minded ideal to solve the problems of a perpetually war-torn area of the world. Currently being undone by the votes of knuckle-dragging underachievers.


Edit: The Nobel Peace Prize was given to the European Union for its efforts to stabilise Europe and to turn the continent into one of peace. Your argument literally has no leg to stand on Raven. 'cause you're talking shite.

 

[Job]

We e done that to death, the EU and its anti nationalist agenda... to give itself power as a single entity...has caused a level of hostility across Europe not seen since the WW2.

It has quite simply failed on every level .
Its financial situation is dire and its political situation is basically a crisis..Greece Spain and Italy are broke, France is turning right wing, the UK has left, Eastern Europe is becoming borderline Nazi.
These are not just daily bollocks of life situations...everyone of those is a very, very serious threat to stability.

 

[DaGaffer]

There would have been no more wars in europe if the nazis had won. Your reasoning is flawed.

What the fuck does that have to do with the EU? What the fuck are you jabbering about?

 

[DaGaffer]

You're talking bollocks, again.

NATO was created to keep the peace, the EU was created to share wealth.

NATO was created to face off against the Soviets, the EU was to stop Europeans fighting each other. Its called being able to do more than one thing at the same time.

 

[Raven]

Yes - the EU was created to keep the peace by making us so economically dependent on each other that we couldn't go to war with each other without fucking ourselves over.

That was the basic plan. It's been often stated before. It's not a controvertial view in any way. A United States of Europe was Churchill's own idea.

Peace through trade. Ever closer union. United States of Europe.

A high-minded ideal to solve the problems of a perpetually war-torn area of the world. Currently being undone by the votes of knuckle-dragging underachievers.

You're deluded and demonstrably wrong, as per. Repeating the same bollocks over and over wont change that. You aren't going to change your mind because in your world, that is how it is, you are completely incapable of reasoned thought. The fact that your only argument with 52% of the population is insults says a lot about your broken, demented personality.

You would literally be shitting a kidney if it was the UK threatening to overthrow a people. Say for example Scotland vote to leave the UK and we say, fuck you we will make life difficult for you if you do, lets say we take the Shetland isles, yeah, like that bitches?

Even if the EU was created to keep the peace (It wasn't) is peace by tyranny worth it? Is it really peace if someone asks to leave and then gets threatened for doing so? If it is then you can keep it.

 

[DaGaffer]

Bullshit. Nuclear armament and NATO has stopped the west from being at war with one another. However, we have been at war with someone or other nearly every year since...funnily enough countries with no nuclear deterrent and not in NATO.

NATO countries have fought each other. So so much for that idea. EU countries have not.

 

[Raven]

What the fuck does that have to do with the EU? What the fuck are you jabbering about?

Everything. You are arguing that a regime that wants to overthrow democratic choices made by a people is one that should be supported, because apparently it keeps the peace (until someone disagrees with it, but that's cool, right). Aside from the murdering of gypsies and Jews that is pretty much exactly what the Germans wanted in the 30s/40s, a unified, peaceful Europe. Should we have just backed down and allowed it because they were threatening violence? Get out of town.

 

[Job]

EU keeping peace is liberal myth no2.
Imagine if we didnt have nukes and Nato.
Seriously youd make a fortune investing in air raid siren stocks.

 

[Scouse]

It has quite simply failed on every level

Has it Job? Has it? Are we at fucking war with each other? Are we bombing and slaughtering each other? Piling other Europeans into mass graves? Gassing them?

No. Currently we enjoy lovely holidays in each others countries. We can move over there for work and buy property there. They're our friends and families.

The only thing that's failing in Europe at the moment is the UK schooling system for pumping out people like you and Raven.

 

[Job]

Ate you looking at Europe or reading the brochure.
Nato and nukes keep the peace DESPITE the EUs best intentions to fuck it up.

 

[Scouse]

nukes keep the peace DESPITE the EUs best intentions to fuck it up.

How do nukes keep the peace within Europe Job. Explain.

Actually, don't. To use one of raven's favourite terms, you're such a swivel eyed loon I wouldn't want to read it.

 

[Raven]

Off topic.

Scouse, I know you mental deficiency means you have to facepalm, literally every post but can we just say it is assumed in future? The alerts are annoying.

Thanks

 

[Scouse]

mental deficiency

Raven, I know @Bodhi comes to your defence and vice versa when I start calling you names and that you call @caLLous out on it, even when you start it (and surely that makes it OK for Cal to retaliate, right? as you're the aggressor) but you really ought to stop throwing bricks in glass houses.

As for the facpalms, I only facepalm things that are so utterly bereft of merit that they warrant it. It just happens that you talk crap a lot...

 

[Raven]

But its obsessive behaviour, something is wrong. Everyone else can discuss things, even if they do have completely opposing views on it, without spamming facepalms.

It is not name calling.

Edit, its not like they are annoying themselves, its cute in a way I suppose. It is the actual notifications that are annoying. Like constant texts from a spurned lover, or that thing windows does if you hold shift down for too long or press it too quickly.

 

[Scouse]

But its obsessive behaviour, something is wrong

Your touchyness over facepalms is what's wrong.

Quick look at this page - I've not facepalmed all the crap you've written, even though it probably warrants it, and none on the last - you have to go back like five pages. So it's you. And it's because you're talking absolute demonstrable shite.

And yes, it's name calling. So if you don't want to be prodded back in similar fashion, stop. Or at least stop whining when it happens.