Politics So...Europe then?

[Raven]

Indignant. Mad is too much.

Also, I don't get mad on the internet, I just like to punctuate with swearing.

 

[DaGaffer]

Neither do you rock up and give away one of the biggest chips you have, before you have even officially started the road to negotiations.

ITS NOT A CHIP. And yes, you can. The negotiations will take place on the Public relations front as well as the negotiating table.

 

[Scouse]

Neither do you rock up and give away one of the biggest chips you have

Using millions of people as a "chip" makes you a cunt. Period.

Using them is a choice, not a mandatory requirement. It's using people's lives. Not their jobs or livelihoods, their actual long-held lives. It's unacceptable to anyone who isn't a fucking monster IMO.

Everything else is fair game. Not this. It doesn't even have to be on the table.

 

[DaGaffer]

nope. Just pick a time. She is basically demanding to know what is for dinner while the house is on fire.

She is an opportunist, nationalistic fuck bag. She gives zero fucks about Scotland's future, so long as it is "independent" Where independence is being told what to do by the EU rather than having a say within GB.

Its like taking a shit and the phone starts ringing, Nicola and her stupid pinched face is on the line wanting to know if you want some double glazing.

She is a fucking moron of the purest kind.

You've just described Nigel Farage and the entire current leadership of the Tory party. What's sauce for the goose...

 

[Raven]

Yeah it kind of is, regardless of how you feel about it personally.

In the same way people's livelihoods and whole way of life are ultimately a chip.

Shitty as it is, them be the facts.

 

[Raven]

You've just described Nigel Farage and the entire current leadership of the Tory party. What's sauce for the goose...

What?

Did Farage and co (Farage is a poor choice, he might as well have been a plant for remoaners) start bleating about Brexit during Brexit campaigning?! The sod.

 

[Raven]

Using millions of people as a "chip" makes you a cunt. Period.

Yup. The EU, absolute cunts.

 

[DaGaffer]

What?

Did Farage and co (Farage is a poor choice, he might as well have been a plant for remoaners) start bleating about Brexit during Brexit campaigning?! The sod.

I'm talking about "nationalist fuckbags who don't give a shit so long as its independence"

 

[Scouse]

Yup. The EU, absolute cunts.

Us. We created the situation. We're changing it. Not the EU.

Do you hit people a lot Raven? You know, punch them? I mean, you know it's wrong, but other people do it so why shouldn't you eh?

 

[Raven]

Do you hit people a lot Raven? You know, punch them? I mean, you know it's wrong, but other people do it so why shouldn't you eh?

What? Are you moving over to desperate (as in crying into a pillow) balling argument now?

No, I do not hit people...why would I?

*Neither do I suggest idiots should be murdered at birth, either.

You are still (quite angrily, in a sort of pathetic, keening, impotent rage kinda way) suggesting one side is worse than the other for saying the exact same thing.

 

[DaGaffer]

Yup. The EU, absolute cunts.

No. The UK decided to leave. The UK had the power to make a unilateral decision on leave to remain, because it would be in the gift of the UK right now. It is not in EU's gift to do the same until after article 50, unless the UK did it (because the EU had no mechanism to do so until the UK made Brexit "official"). Then it would be easy for the EU to reciprocate. They still wouldn't have been able to formalise it until after Article 50, but it could have been an item that was tabled and dealt with immediately. There's no way the Germans in particular would quibble about British residents when they've just taken in a million refugees, but they can quibble if the British are being dicks about EU citizens in the UK. The UK was the only one who could have moved pre-article 50, but because they're a shower of venal cunts, who, by the way couldn't negotiate their way out of a paper bag*, didn't do so.

(*The sheer lack of trade and economic negotiating skills available to UK Gov is a serious problem for Brexit negotiations, never mind all these mythical parallel trade deals they're supposed to be doing with everyone else).

 

[Raven]

Going to have to stop you there I am afraid, you're talking absolute bollocks again (lots of text though, nice touch)

The UK government was in no position to promise anything before we handed in the letter and triggered one of the most important and complex legal processes in history.

 

[Scouse]

OK. I know you failed every comprehension class but I have spelled it out clearly:

Doing something wrong is NOT OK. EVEN IF SOMEONE ELSE IS DOING IT.

Get it? It's wrong to treat people like chips. What the EU is doing is irrelevant. It's called "doing the right thing". Get it? I mean, I've been really clear. I don't give a fuck what the EU has said about expats. We're not in control of that. We ARE in control of people in this country. And they are humans - not fucking chips.

You cunt.

 

[Scouse]

The UK government was in no position to promise anything before we handed in the letter

Sorry.

You thick cunt.

It's utterly within our power to say "you guys can stay, whatever"...

 

[Raven]

OK. I know you failed every comprehension class but I have spelled it out clearly:

Doing something wrong is NOT OK. EVEN IF SOMEONE ELSE IS DOING IT.

Ah, excellent. So you agree the EU are (just as much) cunts then? Great, glad its cleared up now.

Carry on raging though, its absolutely hilarious that you are getting so salty over something you can do absolutely nothing about

I see your edit and I raise you that it is within the EU's power to say the same (Actually it isn't, see below post, which is why the EU will grind to a shuddering halt before long - that is if they don't do away with pesky democracy completely)

 

[DaGaffer]

Going to have to stop you there I am afraid, you're talking absolute bollocks again (lots of text though, nice touch)

The UK government was in no position to promise anything before we handed in the letter and triggered one of the most important and complex legal processes in history.

Yes, it was. The UK will be independent of Brussels. A wholly sovereign nation again (apparently). They can make any fucking promise they like. The EU can't.

 

[Raven]

Yes, it was. The UK will be independent of Brussels. A wholly sovereign nation again (apparently). They can make any fucking promise they like. The EU can't.

Why can't they? Would that be because they have to ask the opinion of some piss pot country that's entire economy is based on labour exports before they can get around to making a decision?

 

[Scouse]

Why can't they?

Because it's a collection of states that all have to agree before promises can be made. (Even "piss pot" ones - although I'd argue that on current form they're no worse than us).

On our own we can promise anything. Including letting whoever we like stay, for whatever reason.

You know this, but still don't care about the millions this is causing genuine anguish for. You see their lives as "chips" and find that view acceptable. That really does make you a giant foetid thundercunt.

 

[DaGaffer]

Why can't they? Would that be because they have to ask the opinion of some piss pot country that's entire economy is based on labour exports before they can get around to making a decision?

Because it has to go before the Commission and The Parliament as a request from the UK (because the UK is leaving remember), which is Article 50. The UK is under no such constraint; the decision can be made entirely in Cabinet. This isn't an argument about the effectiveness of the EU political system, its an argument about process, and the UK could do things pre-article 50 that the EU couldn't, publicly, but that doesn't mean the court of public opinion can't be used to set the agenda, which was an opportunity for the UK that has now been missed, as the Government seems to be determined to get the worst possible deal based on all the PR they've done so far.

 

[Scouse]

the UK could do things pre-article 50 that the EU couldn't, publicly, but that doesn't mean the court of public opinion can't be used to set the agenda, which was an opportunity for the UK that has now been missed

And badly missed. It was such an obvious opportunity to look like the bigger man, the more moral country.

We look like a fucking banana republic rushing to the right. We're the Donald Trump of Europe and have squandered a lot of our reputational currency on the world stage to boot.

Not to mention that a large section of our own population are being treated like utter dog shit.

 

[Raven]

No, actually...as usual...you are completely wrong and have let emotion get the better of you.

We should have said it, in an ideal disneyesque world. Unfortunately we do not live in one and it would have been retarded to start promising stuff (regardless of what it is) when you haven't even triggered the official (by law, yes actual law) process of leaving.

of course it will be one of the first things sorted out and I have absolutely no doubt that both sides will agree (after its been dragged out by some onion growers) that people wherever will be able to stay, probably under some sort of reciprocal duel nationality thing.

I actually think free movement will remain as part of a trade deal, it suits both parties and I imagine will be an easy win to get out of the way for both.

Edit. Its almost like you think that migration isn't a thing if you aren't part of some sort of economic-come-dictatorship bloc. Quite bizarre really. It's going to absolutely kill me to tell the Indian fella at work that he shouldn't really be here due to India not being part of the EU, his wife's cooking is perfect too, gutted.

 

[Scouse]

This is *nothing* to do with migration. It's *nothing* to do with the Article 50 process (triggered "by law" as you say). This is to do with people who already live here, some for many decades, being allowed to continue their lives.

WE NEVER HAD TO WAIT. We could have, completely unilaterally, with complete disregard for the EU, it's processes and procedures and any laws, said: "you guys can stay. We'll never use you as chips. Your lives aren't negotiation points and the UK will never, ever, treat human beings so shamefully. Rest easy folks. Get some good sleep and go to work happy in the knowledge that you and your families won't ever be uprooted".

Nothing to do with the EU. Nothing to do with Brexit (other than the vote being the cause of this). We had (and still have) the power to do the right thing -without "negotiating anything" (because we don't have to negotiate with ourselves) and rule it out.


But we haven't. Because we're cunts. Period.

 

[DaGaffer]

No, actually...as usual...you are completely wrong and have let emotion get the better of you.

We should have said it, in an ideal disneyesque world. Unfortunately we do not live in one and it would have been retarded to start promising stuff (regardless of what it is) when you haven't even triggered the official (by law, yes actual law) process of leaving.

of course it will be one of the first things sorted out and I have absolutely no doubt that both sides will agree (after its been dragged out by some onion growers) that people wherever will be able to stay, probably under some sort of reciprocal duel nationality thing.

I actually think free movement will remain as part of a trade deal, it suits both parties and I imagine will be an easy win to get out of the way for both.

Edit. Its almost like you think that migration isn't a thing if you aren't part of some sort of economic-come-dictatorship bloc. Quite bizarre really. It's going to absolutely kill me to tell the Indian fella at work that he shouldn't really be here due to India not being part of the EU, his wife's cooking is perfect too, gutted.

Fuck's sake. Free movement is off the table, according to UK gov. This has been stated multiple times. So there's something the UK has promised in advance of article 50, despite the fact that apparently we can't do that according to you. That's why right to remain is so important.

 

[Moriath]

And everything you say here sums up my point that Scotland and England are clearly and obviously going in different directions - the union doesn't work and now we're getting hauled out of the EU (terrible decision) against our will. Sturgeon is right to pursue it.

I can see if you are not invested in a unity then you see yourself as seperate. Us north of the wall and us south. Rather than us as a union.

We took a brexit view as a union.

You either take that on the chin or keep throwing your toys.

So one half of scotland will be on one side and the other half on the snp side.

Snp are in power so that gets the press. I guess you are snp side.

If you take it as one people one great britain we call the vote to leave the uk and you voted in 2014 or whenever to do that.

We could say that london wants to exit the union as they voted to stay over the rest of the uk with scotland. But they havent asked for a ref to leave the union.

Its exactly the same

 

[Raven]

Fuck's sake. Free movement is off the table, according to UK gov. This has been stated multiple times. So there's something the UK has promised in advance of article 50, despite the fact that apparently we can't do that according to you. That's why right to remain is so important.

That was passed into law was it? Oh wait, no, you're talking out your arse again.

One thing you plebs need to understand, nothing that has been said over the last year means anything.

 

[Raven]

I can see if you are not invested in a unity then you see yourself as seperate. Us north of the wall and us south. Rather than us as a union.

We took a brexit view as a union.

You either take that on the chin or keep throwing your toys.

So one half of scotland will be on one side and the other half on the snp side.

Snp are in power so that gets the press. I guess you are snp side.

If you take it as one people one great britain we call the vote to leave the uk and you voted in 2014 or whenever to do that.

We could say that london wants to exit the union as they voted to stay over the rest of the uk with scotland. But they havent asked for a ref to leave the union.

Its exactly the same

Also, the good bits of Scotland also voted out...so...

 

[Moriath]

Also, the good bits of Scotland also voted out...so...

Good bits bad bits subjective. But as a union we voted out.

However much devolution you have had. Its not enough to give you autonomy. So we at the moment have to go as a collective. Until you force a ref and leave in the future.

I can see the point. Wait till you see the deals in place then vote.

 

[DaGaffer]

That was passed into law was it? Oh wait, no, you're talking out your arse again.

One thing you plebs need to understand, nothing that has been said over the last year means anything.

Doesn't matter. UK Gov could still make the commitment

 

[Deebs]

As heated as this conversation is, let's stop with the personal insults. Everyone has their own opinion and having one is their right. No more cunt calling, no more calling people thick etc.

 

[Scouse]

Meh. Fair enough. For my part it was a conscious decision born out of a frustraion of some people's inability to read an argument and acknowledge the points being made, never mind address them. But I'll lay off for a bit. If anything it'll be interesting to see if a certain crow-related friend can do the same since he defaults to that without, I think, realising it