Politics So...Europe then?

[old.user4556]

I had a conversation with some idiot at work today and he thinks we will get less brown immigration when we leave the EU...something...EU court...something...infowars....something. Yeah.

He refuses to vote though so who cares.

I'm having the same conversations with the inherently racist people I know, it's all "well I don't want any more muslims coming in - HAVE YOU FUCKING SEEN CALAIS? - they just want our benefits and bomb our people" or "I don't want any more eastern europeans coming in, they're taking the manual labour jobs and making a mess of it".

Yes, because shite plumbers / sparks / tilers / *insert trade* never existed until the Poles came in, you racist cunt.

 

[DaGaffer]

I'm having the same conversations with the inherently racist people I know, it's all "well I don't want any more muslims coming in - HAVE YOU FUCKING SEEN CALAIS? - they just want our benefits and bomb our people" or "I don't want any more eastern europeans coming in, they're taking the manual labour jobs and making a mess of it".

Yes, because shite plumbers / sparks / tilers / *insert trade* never existed until the Poles came in, you racist cunt.

Bluntly you usually get a better job from Eastern Europeans than Brits (or Irish).

 

[Raven]

Not guaranteed but they will at least turn up and leave when they say.

Moot point anyway, they will still be here taking up the slack created by the idle in two years time.

 

[old.user4556]

Bluntly you usually get a better job from Eastern Europeans than Brits (or Irish).

... and in my experience the Poles are very nice and very polite which is more than can be said for every tooth-sucking "no ma joab pal" Scotsman.

 

[old.user4556]

they will still be here taking up the slack created by the idle in two years time.

Nail and head, and I've not got a problem with that at all.

 

[Job]

The eastern Europeans work harder on the whole because the pay is so good, but there are the normal amount of slackers and pissheads, my mate has sacked more Poles than English people.
Luckily for me they dont do gas work, and these days thats were the money is.
Ive never seen a bad job by them, they are nearly all proper tradesmen, though the standards are a bit more slack in the countries they come from, they always ramp it up...like not using freakin tap flexys to connect the gas.

 

[DaGaffer]

... and in my experience the Poles are very nice and very polite which is more than can be said for every tooth-sucking "no ma joab pal" Scotsman.

When we were having the work done on the house last year, we had Poles, Moldovans and Romanians (being managed by South Africans...go figure), and not only did they work like trojans, they were quality craftsmen. The only shonky work we had done and had to get fixed? The Irish kitchen fitters and our Irish electrician, who fucked up loads of stuff and had to do a load of remedial work.

Our architect was Polish as well, and she was a thousand percent more creative and innovative than the two Irish ones we'd spoken to before her, who were lazy unimaginative fucks frankly.

 

[Job]

Racism poking its head out there.

 

[Bodhi]

Who cares?

First and foremost: it's the right thing to do. I know that doesn't seem to carry any weight with the low rents around here but ethical behaviour counts.

And if we're such a great country, an example to the rest of the world, something for other countries to look up to, then we need to act like it.

Don't forget - this situation is our fault. We voted to leave. Our actions are the reason that millions of people are now living with uncertainty - at home and abroad. Our actions, our votes. Everyone was secure until we voted to leave.

Comparing certainty over your families' country of residence to fishing rights is laughably idiotic. There are some things that shouldn't be 'on the table'.

We could have fixed this. Regardless of what the EU will do. And make no mistake, the EU doesn't want to look like cunts so they would have had immense pressure to reciprocate.

Regardless - doing the right thing doesn't depend on the actions of others. Sometimes it comes at a cost.

Our mess. Our fault. The onus is on us.

That's a lot of text just to prove you don't know how negotiation works.

 

[Raven]

That's a lot of text just to prove you don't know how negotiation works.

Agreed, we should really have just bent over and pleaded with the bitter, failed, domestic-nowEU-becauseitsacushynumber-politicians that we will do whatever they ask before we even triggered the remoanerrs. It's only fair.

 

[Scouse]

I see tweedle dee was waiting until tweedle dumb posted before he could eagerly jump on his "I don't give a fuck if it's right or wrong, fuck principles, fuck other people" bandwagon.

I'd like to say I'm surprised but at least my two prime examples of why mankind is utterly fucked in the long run lived up to expectations.

I don't include job in that. He's in the "makes me wonder if euthanasia based on IQ is actually wrong" camp.

 

[Raven]

What are you desperately wittering on about now?

You also, still, cannot fathom how negotiations work.

 

[Raven]

To be fair though, the EU do at least have to ask whogivesafuckistan if it's OK to do anything, part of the problem with the big lumbering failure. Although I imagine that will be resolved sharpish once the pesky Brits are out the way.

 

[Bodhi]

I see tweedle dee was waiting until tweedle dumb posted before he could eagerly jump on his "I don't give a fuck if it's right or wrong, fuck principles, fuck other people" bandwagon.

I'd like to say I'm surprised but at least my two prime examples of why mankind is utterly fucked in the long run lived up to expectations.

I don't include job in that. He's in the "makes me wonder if euthanasia based on IQ is actually wrong" camp.

I see you are still incapable of making and argument without resorting to ad hominems (tweeddale whatever you came up with).

So. Despite whatever should work in the ideal world you live in, how can we guarantee the UK expats will be ok if we guarantee safety of EU citizens in the UK before getting into negotiations?

Bear in mind this is the real world.

 

[Moriath]

Sturgeon signs independence vote request - BBC News

Shes been told no and still she tries so she can act indignant again when turned down.

 

[Raven]

Well to be fair, she has to have something to keep herself relevant. Without the nationalist bullshit she would be working in an off license.

 

[old.user4556]

Yeah, we should shut the fuck up and do as we're told right?

 

[Moriath]

Well to be fair, she has to have something to keep herself relevant. Without the nationalist bullshit she would be working in an off license.

Getting to be a bit of a broken record now tho

 

[Moriath]

Yeah, we should shut the fuck up and do as we're told right?

Yes.

We gave you a vote and you will prob get another after 2019. Pushing it now is quite pointless

 

[old.user4556]

It's simple:

- Scotland did not vote for Brexit
- We were told at the first Indyref "a vote to leave the Union is a vote to leave the EU" and WELL FUCK
- The political shift / goalposts have moved sufficiently to allow a second kick at the ball because that is what the SNP desperately want. In a way, the SNP were licking their lips when it was a "leave" vote.

As a side note that I mentioned further up - Westminster pre-Brexit (Farage, Cameron, Johnson and Gove) and post-Brexit (Tresemé with the others fucking off into the sunset) is a total clusterfuck and absolute mockery. It's time to let the union dissolve.

 

[DaGaffer]

What are you desperately wittering on about now?

You also, still, cannot fathom how negotiations work.

Neither do you. Negotiations don't have to be symmetrical, and very rarely are.

 

[old.user4556]

I should also say about Indy2 in general - it's not about Scotland thinking it's richer or better off out of the Union, it's the elephant in the room that Holyrood and Westminster (I suppose therefore Scotland and England) clearly want to go in different directions constitutionally, and both countries should mutually respect that view and let a second Indy vote go ahead.

Oil isn't what it once was, and the SNP will need to seriously think about putting a solid, updated and honest fiscal plan on the table otherwise they too will be mocked.

 

[Job]

It still wont actually happen, it might sorta look like its happening, but bit by bit they will make concessions, re invent ways to intwine us, keep all the bits that make money and just rename them, loads of 'we think this is the best deal' speeches, come up with a new dawn of European relationships, blame someone for some shit to divert the eye.
We'll look back in thirty years and say...wtf was that?

 

[DaGaffer]

I should also say about Indy2 in general - it's not about Scotland thinking it's richer or better off out of the Union, it's the elephant in the room that Holyrood and Westminster (I suppose therefore Scotland and England) clearly want to go in different directions constitutionally, and both countries should mutually respect that view and let a second Indy vote go ahead.

Oil isn't what it once was, and the SNP will need to seriously think about putting a solid, updated and honest fiscal plan on the table otherwise they too will be mocked.

I agree another referendum is a valid aspiration for all the reasons you say. Got to admit I'm confused about Sturgeon's "plan" though; she's still talking about keeping the Pound, which was unlikely at the last referendum and would be utterly impossible after this one.

 

[old.user4556]

She needs full disclosure and admit "it's Euros people". I'm ok with that personally.

 

[Moriath]

It's simple:

- Scotland did not vote for Brexit
- We were told at the first Indyref "a vote to leave the Union is a vote to leave the EU" and WELL FUCK
- The political shift / goalposts have moved sufficiently to allow a second kick at the ball because that is what the SNP desperately want. In a way, the SNP were licking their lips when it was a "leave" vote.

As a side note that I mentioned further up - Westminster pre-Brexit (Farage, Cameron, Johnson and Gove) and post-Brexit (Tresemé with the others fucking off into the sunset) is a total clusterfuck and absolute mockery. It's time to let the union dissolve.

Its simple. At the moment scotland is part of a union. England didnt vote for a scottish referendum did they .

So while you are part of it then you must play by the combined rules. Not invent scottish ones for your own ends.

You asked for another ref. They said no. You just had one. Bide your time and in the end im sure you will be granted another. But as you know there are more people in england than there are in scotland. So in a democracy your say if its all the same carries less weight.

 

[old.user4556]

Its simple. At the moment scotland is part of a union. England didnt vote for a scottish referendum did they .

So while you are part of it then you must play by the combined rules. Not invent scottish ones for your own ends.

You asked for another ref. They said no. You just had one. Bide your time and in the end im sure you will be granted another. But as you know there are more people in england than there are in scotland. So in a democracy your say if its all the same carries less weight.

And everything you say here sums up my point that Scotland and England are clearly and obviously going in different directions - the union doesn't work and now we're getting hauled out of the EU (terrible decision) against our will. Sturgeon is right to pursue it.

 

[Raven]

Neither do you. Negotiations don't have to be symmetrical, and very rarely are.

Neither do you rock up and give away one of the biggest chips you have, before you have even officially started the road to negotiations.

 

[Raven]

Yeah, we should shut the fuck up and do as we're told right?

nope. Just pick a time. She is basically demanding to know what is for dinner while the house is on fire.

She is an opportunist, nationalistic fuck bag. She gives zero fucks about Scotland's future, so long as it is "independent" Where independence is being told what to do by the EU rather than having a say within GB.

Its like taking a shit and the phone starts ringing, Nicola and her stupid pinched face is on the line wanting to know if you want some double glazing.

She is a fucking moron of the purest kind.

 

[old.user4556]

You mad bro?