Politics So...Europe then?
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The Carl Pilkington of Freddyshouse
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Not me obviously..random poster..
We are the first generation of Europeans who have never had to defend their freedom. And as a consequence, we now take freedom so much for granted it has become a root assumption about reality. So that, even when we can see it being taken away from us, we simply don’t believe it.
The Euro bailout fiasco is proving that you can’t make a currency omelet without wrecking a few economies but still, by far, the most worthless currency in Europe today is the vote. A wheelbarrow full of votes won’t buy you a say in the lawmaking process. And that’s why this crisis is happening.
It’s also why Europe needs a revolution. Nothing as crude as an armed uprising. I’m not suggesting anything like that. I mean a real revolution of public will and intent to restore the power of the ballot box to the people, from whom it’s been stolen. Because, at the risk of sounding like an extremist, there is nothing wrong with Europe today that couldn’t be cured by more democracy.
I think it’s ironic that, just as the Arabs are finally claiming their right to self-determination, we in Europe are busy handing ours away, or rather having it signed away, by a political class who openly despise the people they purport to represent. Soon, the Arabs will be lecturing us on democracy.
The artificial single currency is regarded as a central prelude to full undemocratic political union in Europe. And Germany has done more than any country to prop it up because, as the Chancellor said, it’s Germany’s historic duty to protect the Euro. This is Euro-speak for residual war guilt. The Germans don’t have a historic duty to do anything except mind their own business and, maybe, make a point out of staying out of Poland. If I was German, I would resent my government’s desire to keep making amends for something that had nothing to do with anyone alive today; and to pay for it with my money. The best thing Germany can do for other countries is to let them stand on their own feet. As it is, the German government is creating a mini economic empire of vassal states and setting its country up to be hated and resented all over again. Nice work, Mrs. Merkel.
The European Union is not, in fact, a union at all: but a continent-wide political coup. What began as a common market has now metamorphosed by stealth into a supra-national political dictatorship. A parasitic organism living on the backs of the European nation-states sucking their life-blood and slowly killing them off. A bureaucratic tyranny that wants to harmonize out of existence the national identities that have made Europe a continent of genuine diversity and a cultural crucible whose values have shaped the entire Western world. But they want to put a stop to all that in the European Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and this is why European laws are never enacted in response to any kind of organic need in society but as top-down directives intended to impose indiscriminate uniformity for its own sake.
More than 50% of British law is now made this way by people we haven’t elected and can’t remove and, as they can override our elected politicians whenever they like, it’s only a matter of time before it’s 100%. We pay the European Union more than 15 billion pounds a year (and rising), that’s more than twice the public service cuts combined. We squander that every year and all we get for it is ordered around. Thanks to unqualified and politically motivated European judges, we can no longer deport foreign terrorists and criminals from Britain, no matter what crimes they’ve committed, in case it violates their human rights. Yet, under the European arrest warrant, a British citizen can be extradited on no evidence to face charges that are not even crimes in Britain and to be held without charge for months in appalling conditions without anyone having made a case against them. No human rights for them. And British judges can do nothing about this, even if they want to. Which they seldom do, to be fair. And not one of the 3 main political parties in Britain is prepared to give the people a chance to have a say about any of this because they know damn well what we would say.
I’m beginning to understand how Americans must have felt living under King George. What was that again? No taxation without representation. You know, the war of independence wasn’t America against England. It was English men resisting the oppressive regime of their autocratic German king: asserting their human rights (in modern parlance). American may be a melting pot now but it began with a defense of age-old English liberties. Liberties that were promptly written into the constitution – something we never got around to doing in Britain, so we no longer enjoy the same liberties Americans do. We don’t have a constitution. We don’t have a first amendment. What we have – and what the whole of Europe has – is the Lisbon treaty; a kind of top-down constitution that’s been imposed on us against our will. And unlike the American constitution which empowers the people, the European constitution disempowers the people and empowers the unelected bureaucrats and career politicians for whose sole benefit it was created.
Whatever the reality of the republican/democrat stitch-up, America is still governed, at least in theory, by the people and for the people. No such pretense exists any more in Europe where the people have had to stand by watching, helplessly, their protests ignored as their elected representatives sign away their sovereignty and their franchise without permission and burden them with a mountain of phony debt they didn’t incur. If a lawyer or an accountant behaved like this, they would end up in prison. But the political class get away with it because they make up the rules as they go along. They are, literally, a law unto themselves.
The ink was barely dry on the wretched Lisbon Treaty when they were violating its terms to throw even more of other people’s money at economies they have destroyed. Most of these people have never had a proper job outside politics and it shows. They inhabit a bubble of their own creation, like a priesthood, and in taking away the power of the ballot box, as they have, they’ve removed the people’s ability to prick that bubble and let in a little reality. In short, they’ve stolen our birthright and that of our children and grandchildren and that’s why Europe needs a revolution.
And if, ultimately, these criminals are not held to account by the law, as they ought to be, they will certainly be held to account by history as the generation that tried to snuff out democracy in Europe. A generation of traitors. Of incompetent, self-serving political pipsqueaks who call themselves leaders, yet who’ve shown they wouldn’t know how to lead a pack of lemmings straight over a cliff. Actually, I take that back. That’s exactly what they are doing.
We are the first generation of Europeans who have never had to defend their freedom. And as a consequence, we now take freedom so much for granted it has become a root assumption about reality. So that, even when we can see it being taken away from us, we simply don’t believe it.
The Euro bailout fiasco is proving that you can’t make a currency omelet without wrecking a few economies but still, by far, the most worthless currency in Europe today is the vote. A wheelbarrow full of votes won’t buy you a say in the lawmaking process. And that’s why this crisis is happening.
It’s also why Europe needs a revolution. Nothing as crude as an armed uprising. I’m not suggesting anything like that. I mean a real revolution of public will and intent to restore the power of the ballot box to the people, from whom it’s been stolen. Because, at the risk of sounding like an extremist, there is nothing wrong with Europe today that couldn’t be cured by more democracy.
I think it’s ironic that, just as the Arabs are finally claiming their right to self-determination, we in Europe are busy handing ours away, or rather having it signed away, by a political class who openly despise the people they purport to represent. Soon, the Arabs will be lecturing us on democracy.
The artificial single currency is regarded as a central prelude to full undemocratic political union in Europe. And Germany has done more than any country to prop it up because, as the Chancellor said, it’s Germany’s historic duty to protect the Euro. This is Euro-speak for residual war guilt. The Germans don’t have a historic duty to do anything except mind their own business and, maybe, make a point out of staying out of Poland. If I was German, I would resent my government’s desire to keep making amends for something that had nothing to do with anyone alive today; and to pay for it with my money. The best thing Germany can do for other countries is to let them stand on their own feet. As it is, the German government is creating a mini economic empire of vassal states and setting its country up to be hated and resented all over again. Nice work, Mrs. Merkel.
The European Union is not, in fact, a union at all: but a continent-wide political coup. What began as a common market has now metamorphosed by stealth into a supra-national political dictatorship. A parasitic organism living on the backs of the European nation-states sucking their life-blood and slowly killing them off. A bureaucratic tyranny that wants to harmonize out of existence the national identities that have made Europe a continent of genuine diversity and a cultural crucible whose values have shaped the entire Western world. But they want to put a stop to all that in the European Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and this is why European laws are never enacted in response to any kind of organic need in society but as top-down directives intended to impose indiscriminate uniformity for its own sake.
More than 50% of British law is now made this way by people we haven’t elected and can’t remove and, as they can override our elected politicians whenever they like, it’s only a matter of time before it’s 100%. We pay the European Union more than 15 billion pounds a year (and rising), that’s more than twice the public service cuts combined. We squander that every year and all we get for it is ordered around. Thanks to unqualified and politically motivated European judges, we can no longer deport foreign terrorists and criminals from Britain, no matter what crimes they’ve committed, in case it violates their human rights. Yet, under the European arrest warrant, a British citizen can be extradited on no evidence to face charges that are not even crimes in Britain and to be held without charge for months in appalling conditions without anyone having made a case against them. No human rights for them. And British judges can do nothing about this, even if they want to. Which they seldom do, to be fair. And not one of the 3 main political parties in Britain is prepared to give the people a chance to have a say about any of this because they know damn well what we would say.
I’m beginning to understand how Americans must have felt living under King George. What was that again? No taxation without representation. You know, the war of independence wasn’t America against England. It was English men resisting the oppressive regime of their autocratic German king: asserting their human rights (in modern parlance). American may be a melting pot now but it began with a defense of age-old English liberties. Liberties that were promptly written into the constitution – something we never got around to doing in Britain, so we no longer enjoy the same liberties Americans do. We don’t have a constitution. We don’t have a first amendment. What we have – and what the whole of Europe has – is the Lisbon treaty; a kind of top-down constitution that’s been imposed on us against our will. And unlike the American constitution which empowers the people, the European constitution disempowers the people and empowers the unelected bureaucrats and career politicians for whose sole benefit it was created.
Whatever the reality of the republican/democrat stitch-up, America is still governed, at least in theory, by the people and for the people. No such pretense exists any more in Europe where the people have had to stand by watching, helplessly, their protests ignored as their elected representatives sign away their sovereignty and their franchise without permission and burden them with a mountain of phony debt they didn’t incur. If a lawyer or an accountant behaved like this, they would end up in prison. But the political class get away with it because they make up the rules as they go along. They are, literally, a law unto themselves.
The ink was barely dry on the wretched Lisbon Treaty when they were violating its terms to throw even more of other people’s money at economies they have destroyed. Most of these people have never had a proper job outside politics and it shows. They inhabit a bubble of their own creation, like a priesthood, and in taking away the power of the ballot box, as they have, they’ve removed the people’s ability to prick that bubble and let in a little reality. In short, they’ve stolen our birthright and that of our children and grandchildren and that’s why Europe needs a revolution.
And if, ultimately, these criminals are not held to account by the law, as they ought to be, they will certainly be held to account by history as the generation that tried to snuff out democracy in Europe. A generation of traitors. Of incompetent, self-serving political pipsqueaks who call themselves leaders, yet who’ve shown they wouldn’t know how to lead a pack of lemmings straight over a cliff. Actually, I take that back. That’s exactly what they are doing.
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The Carl Pilkington of Freddyshouse
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It's a post in the comments on Reddit, do we need links to opinion pieces now.
This Pat Condell is a right wing writer..obviously, he spouts off on all things right wing, but can write
very poetically at times, that was pretty good, a bit silly with the 15 billion being wasted, seeing as we USED to mostly get it back in various ways.
USED, because we left!!!!
Looks at House of Lords
This Pat Condell is a right wing writer..obviously, he spouts off on all things right wing, but can write
very poetically at times, that was pretty good, a bit silly with the 15 billion being wasted, seeing as we USED to mostly get it back in various ways.
USED, because we left!!!!
Looks at House of Lords
Job
The Carl Pilkington of Freddyshouse
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Pat Condell - Wikiquote
I guess he's one of those guys you can agree with on many things, but he does go off on one, when discussing Islam.
Sort of a more arsey Richard Dawkins
I guess he's one of those guys you can agree with on many things, but he does go off on one, when discussing Islam.
Sort of a more arsey Richard Dawkins
Gwadien
Uneducated Northern Cretin
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Brexit vote: How did your MP vote on the the bill? - BBC News
Isn't this a contradiction of politics?
Why isn't voting in the HoC private?
Isn't this a contradiction of politics?
Why isn't voting in the HoC private?
Rubber Bullets
FH is my second home
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They are voting on behalf of their constituents. Everyone must have the right to know how their representative has voted.
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So, the BOE are saying much of the scaremongering the "experts" with vested interests claimed before, during and after the Brexit vote is a crock of shit. Growth in 2017 now predicted to be 2%
Are people still sucking on the teat of the "experts" religion or are they now thinking for themselves and/or questioning what they are spoon fed?
Or, is there a twist in the tale, perhaps this expert isn't an expert...its getting very confusing as to which expert is talking bollocks and which expert is correct...perhaps "experts" can be wrong!? Fucking hell, that would be bigger than Jesus.
Are people still sucking on the teat of the "experts" religion or are they now thinking for themselves and/or questioning what they are spoon fed?
Or, is there a twist in the tale, perhaps this expert isn't an expert...its getting very confusing as to which expert is talking bollocks and which expert is correct...perhaps "experts" can be wrong!? Fucking hell, that would be bigger than Jesus.
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dysfunction
FH is my second home
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Nobody is correct all of the time.
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Not according to several posters on here, they just cherry picked "experts" that happened to agree with their narrative, as did the mainstream media.
It essentially proves how dangerous it is to just accept what you are told. People need to learn how to think for themselves.
It essentially proves how dangerous it is to just accept what you are told. People need to learn how to think for themselves.
Bodhi
Once agreed with Scouse and a LibDem at same time
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Much easier to teach people what to think rather than how to think, has been an issue for a while now.
Job
The Carl Pilkington of Freddyshouse
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Its difficult to challenge an expert when you don't have the actual hard data obviously.
I rely on intent, bias, peer pressure and just simply drawing out the claim to its conclusion to decide if the 'expert' is bending the truth to fit an agenda.
After investigating the 'Inconvenient Truth' movie, a British Judge concluded the claims were mostly not backed up by real data and banned the showing of it in schools by treehugger teachers.
Was he a secret right winger..who knows.
.
I rely on intent, bias, peer pressure and just simply drawing out the claim to its conclusion to decide if the 'expert' is bending the truth to fit an agenda.
After investigating the 'Inconvenient Truth' movie, a British Judge concluded the claims were mostly not backed up by real data and banned the showing of it in schools by treehugger teachers.
Was he a secret right winger..who knows.
.
Yes, yes, we get it. You voted one way (apparently) and then changed your mind as soon as you realised which side had "won" and haven't shut up about it since. Some of us actually formed our own opinions, have convictions and have stuck with them in the aftermath of the referendum. Some of us believe that sticking with the EU in this day and age of globalisation isn't a bad thing and that being in the EU and trying to fix what's not right is infinitely better than being stuck on the outside looking mournfully through the window (or being on the outside and frantically touching yourself hoping that it all falls apart). The UK is also surely in a stronger position as part of a trading bloc (and with free movement of people) than going it alone, picking up shitty trading deals along the way. Yippee, loads of countries with smaller economies than the UK want to strike up trade deals. Of course they do because they will gain from them. It's not like we don't currently trade with countries outside the EU you know...
It's like you're sitting there thinking that Remain voters hope that the whole thing comes crashing down and the UK burns. On the contrary, I hope May and co make a success of it (as do most other Remain voters I'm sure but that doesn't change the fact that I don't think it's a good idea) but she was an spineless and ineffective Home Secretary and she is surrounded by yes-men, who seem to be under the impression that the UK can just pick through the common market, free movement etc, picking out the bits they like and not adhering to the rest. It's delusional to think that the UK government is in anything even close to a strong position here, but you keep banging on about experts and whatever else you think scores you some cheap points.
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The reason I changed my mind was because of an EU that is throwing their toys out of the pram because a democratic decision was made that they didn't like, along with a media intent on lying and angling stories to suit their opinion. It's like a jealous ex girlfriend that just won't leave it alone, they just don't understand how we are moving on without them, its pathetic really. Frankly, the impotent rage is fucking hilarious though. always good to see a grumpy EU minister.
I could find several occasions in this thread alone where you and similar morons stone walled any debate or thought simply because "an expert" had said something, therefore it must be true...that's the point, you are too fucking stupid to think for yourself, you can only regurgitate what the media have told you to.
The truth is, the doomsayers have been proved spectacularly wrong at every step.
Yes I am happy we are doing well and I am pretty sure we will do pretty well dealing with the rest of the world without having to check with whogivesafuckistan whether we might upset their trade in goats or whatever.
I could find several occasions in this thread alone where you and similar morons stone walled any debate or thought simply because "an expert" had said something, therefore it must be true...that's the point, you are too fucking stupid to think for yourself, you can only regurgitate what the media have told you to.
The truth is, the doomsayers have been proved spectacularly wrong at every step.
Yes I am happy we are doing well and I am pretty sure we will do pretty well dealing with the rest of the world without having to check with whogivesafuckistan whether we might upset their trade in goats or whatever.
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